Ebike touring and camping

[MarkJohnston]

Those PSUs you mention are fantastic units for the purpose

but they are not full fledged chargers, in the sense of automatic stop-charge when the pack(s) get to Full.

An electrickery savvy DIYer could rig an HVC cutoff, at the PSU input

or repurpose a secondary BMS for that, that allows for sufficiently low setpoint adjustment.

Otherwise the user is the stop-charge regulator, which could be dangerous, or at least greatly reduce pack lifespan.

I would not trust China brand charger to stop charge at whatever point.
I use celllogs based circuit for cutting off power to charger,
you can call it primitive but it is really effective.
beauty of celllog is alarm output which can be configured NC or NO

Right I have cheap Chinese chargers and they don't know when to shut off. I'll have to look into cellog. Also my batteries are low amperage ones strung in parallel. There's no way they can handle over 3 amps without being heavily damaged.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Pretty hard to legally ship a lithium battery above a certain size. You'd have to do like china does, and lie.

To fix your axle wire, take apart the motor and pull the damaged part farther into the motor and cut it where its not damaged, then matching the wires color, splice the wires with solder and heat shrink to remove the damaged section.

If only the outer sheath of the cable is damaged, you can just tape it up good, or if the plug housing is removable, get a section of heat shrink onto the damaged part of the sheath.

Right, Lie. As I said before. I have accidently shipped a LI ion battery before and hit the "NO" when asked if it was LI ion. Didn't mean to and just let it happen. It ended up in the air I think. I never got caught. I didn't even know it was a problem then.

It would BE AWESOME to have an ebike on the big island in Hawaii or Kuai. But shipping across seas on ships is expensive and time consuming.

Thank you for the advice about the wiring. I actually posted on trouble shooting about it. The OUTER SHEATHING IS DAMAGED so I suppose I'll just pull it in side and tape it up. The axle itself though is vibrating against the sheath causing it to wear down. Bad and cheap design apparently.

 

[john61ct]

Federal taxes pay for those in Canada?

I wrote about riding in Canada, that is right.
fed taxes deducted from every my paycheck.
no rich uncle pays for schools, libraries, sport centers , my taxes pays.

Key word was federal.

In the states, most such expenses are paid out of state and local coffers.

 

[john61ct]

I'll have to look into cellog.

8S at a time, not sure if can be series'd

clones?
https://www.gravesrc.com/imex-celllog-8s-battery-voltage-meter.html

real?
https://www.imex-model.com/product.jhtm?sku=IMX10584

 

[john61ct]

Older American made Meanwell PSUs that are CAN-Bus programmable can be set to stop, and they will not restart until they had been unplugged to clear the command, or when they receive a new command to start. Other Meanwell units, all of them that I know at least, are stopping once the circuit had reached the voltage setting and doesn’t need to be supported, but restart automatically if the battery voltage goes down. This may result in a few stop/start charging before stabilizing equal voltage between the battery and the PSU.

Interesting. All Mean Well models do that? Then they should use the "charger" label, for normal usage cycling Lithium only needs one stage, Bulk / CV

And never knew Mean Well units were ever manufactured in the U.S.A.

must have been a long time ago?

 

[john61ct]

Shipping Lithium (any chemistry) by air without proper certification

can lead to not just huge liabilities if something goes wrong

but huge fines even if nothing does.

Many if not most Chinese cell vendors follow the laws & regs.

FAAFO

At least be responsible enough to discharge below nominal voltage

 

[markz]

For really long distances you have a few choices
1) Really big battery, costly and big
2) Solar, very very bulky
3) Gas generator, bulky and heavy
4) Lots and lots and lots of pedaling

An option is to tow a long a little small, quiet generator on a trailer.
40lbs and 12'x12'x12' at about 400-500W for about 4 or 5A maybe 6A if your lucky for the 110/120V outlet. But when I looked into it I believe I could do two Dell chargers good for 36V 8A for a split pack.




Cheap $120
https://harborfreight.com/900-watt-2-cycle-gas-powered-portable-generator-epacarb-63025.html
900/700W - 38.50 lb - 19x15x16" - 120VAC, 60Hz, Single Phase 7A Rated

Expensive $800-900
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honda-1000-Watt-Super-Quiet-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Inverter-Generator-with-Eco-Throttle-and-Oil-Alert-EU1000/314150935
https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu1000i
17.8" x 9.5" x 14.9" Dry Weight 28.7 lb. 120V 1000W max. (8.3A) 900W rated (7.5A)

 

[MarkJohnston]

An option is to tow a long a little small, quiet generator on a trailer.
40lbs and 12'x12'x12' at about 400-500W for about 4 or 5A maybe 6A if your lucky for the 110/120V outlet. But when I looked into it I believe I could do two Dell chargers good for 36V 8A for a split pack.

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Cheap $120
https://harborfreight.com/900-watt-2-cycle-gas-powered-portable-generator-epacarb-63025.html
900/700W - 38.50 lb - 19x15x16" - 120VAC, 60Hz, Single Phase 7A Rated

Expensive $800-900
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honda-1000-Watt-Super-Quiet-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Inverter-Generator-with-Eco-Throttle-and-Oil-Alert-EU1000/314150935
https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu1000i
17.8" x 9.5" x 14.9" Dry Weight 28.7 lb. 120V 1000W max. (8.3A) 900W rated (7.5A)

So basically you are a gas powered ebike? :?

 

[john61ct]

Gasser motorcycle obviously more practical for dozens of reasons

 

[JackFlorey]

Interesting. All Mean Well models do that? Then they should use the "charger" label, for normal usage cycling Lithium only needs one stage, Bulk / CV.

Few Meanwells come with the CAN interface. It's an option on many of their higher end PSU's but I've never seen one, even in the really cheap ones I get on Ebay. (The RSP-1600 for example comes with either a CAN or PMB interface. PMB is a version of the two wire I2C bus.)

 

[JackFlorey]

Right I have cheap Chinese chargers and they don't know when to shut off. I'll have to look into cellog. Also my batteries are low amperage ones strung in parallel. There's no way they can handle over 3 amps without being heavily damaged.

It should be noted that if your batteries are paralleled and wired correctly the charging currents should share. So if you have 3 10ah batteries that can handle a .5C charge (5 amps) you can safely charge at 10 amps. Even 15 amps if you are careful with the wiring and they are all the same model and age.

 

[markz]

NO!
Its a form of "Hybrid"
:wink:

Clean while using and riding
Dirty dino fossils while charging
:wink:

Or I have seen some hook up their controller to the gasoline generator.

There was a kid that did something similar that came on recently that got scared away from ES

Might as well buy a $200 80cc motored bicycle kit with an electric hub for when you want to ride where silence is key.

Or like its been said, just buy a gas motorcycle or moped or if your a true tree hugger an electric motorcycle or moped and use the ev charging network for super fast charging. Either way you go on that route you will be much safer then riding a bicycle on highways. However the safest form is a big Chevrolet Suburban gas gussling dirty dirty black gold but you wont smell the farm breeze or see the roadside squirrels or be at one with the sorroundings.

So basically you are a gas powered ebike? :?

 

[john61ct]

Few Meanwells come with the CAN interface. It's an option on many of their higher end PSU's but I've never seen one, even in the really cheap ones I get on Ebay. (The RSP-1600 for example comes with either a CAN or PMB interface. PMB is a version of the two wire I2C bus.)

Yes I was not asking about control via a DIY MCU, just a simple HVC is enough and would be more reliable.

I was asking for confirmation about this assertion:

Other Meanwell units, all of them that I know at least, are stopping once the circuit had reached the voltage setting and doesn’t need to be supported, but restart automatically if the battery voltage goes down. This may result in a few stop/start charging before stabilizing equal voltage between the battery and the PSU.

 

[MadRhino]

Meanwells were all American made 15 years ago. About 10 years ago I bought 6 on Ebay from an electronic recycling seller. All of them are CAN-bus programmable, all of hem still working. Now it is hard to find them American made, only in recycling. New ones are all Chinese.

 

[john61ct]

And again, you were claiming that the Chinese ones, non CAN controlled, do automatically stop-charge based on sensed voltage hitting the setpoint.

I am asking (everyone, not you specifically) if that is true

as opposed to acting like a normal PSU, that simply keeps outputting power until something outside turns it off.

 

[MadRhino]

The power they output is usually higher than spec at the beginning of the charge, but gets lower as the voltage of the battery gets close to the PSU voltage setting, until it falls to 0 Amp when they match. But the unit doesn’t stop, it is still lit reading the battery voltage and, If the battery voltage goes down it does start outputting power again until battery and PSU voltage are matching and stable.

What I say is the older units that were made in America, can receive start/stop commands from the CAN-bus, so they really stop and won’t restart outputting power if the battery voltage goes down. Then they need to be unplugged to reset, or receive a CAN-bus instruction to start again. If you unplug the unit, it does remain active as long as the battery is plugged to it, because then I guess it does power its chip/program from the battery, and won’t reset until it is completely unplugged in and out.

 

[MarkJohnston]

well I'm thinking a trailer is the best idea. I'm also thinking about heading from LA to MIAMI. I've never been over there and Google maps says it's the only route that's pretty much flat all the way.

I have a MTB. My panniers are maxed out on the back. A front rack just isn't going to work with a suspension. If I'm going to be mostly on flat roads why not a trailer hauling some serious serious weight? Does anybody know what it feels like to ebike a 40 lb trailer?

A serious serious problem I've been reading about on forums is that the direct drive brush less gearless motor the kind I HAVE, they STRUGGLE WITH HILLS! Especially with HEAVY CARGO! from experience I can tackle gradual inclines but NOTHING STEEP. From experience it drains batteries like nothing else. But from what I'm reading you need to take lots of breaks for the motor to cool down. :x I guess now that I'm thinking about it it sounds better. But hauling all that gear... I've just never...

If it's mostly flat here to Texas, Miami. WOT all the way!

 

[JackFlorey]

well I'm thinking a trailer is the best idea. I'm also thinking about heading from LA to MIAMI. I've never been over there and Google maps says it's the only route that's pretty much flat all the way.

Check out the Adventure Cycling maps. They have that route mapped out very well:

https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/southern-tier/

But it's not that flat for the first few hundred miles. IIRC there's an 8000 foot mountain pass you have to cross.

A serious serious problem I've been reading about on forums is that the direct drive brush less gearless motor the kind I HAVE, they STRUGGLE WITH HILLS! Especially with HEAVY CARGO!

Some ideas there:

1) Statorade. It will keep your max temps down.
2) Temp sensor. Goes along with 1. That lets you run at whatever max temp you are comfortable with (80C? 90C?) without melting anything.
3) Different motor wind. (Yes, this means a new motor or a lot of work.) A slower wind will give you more torque at the lower end. It has a lower top speed - but if you are going long distances that's what you want.

 

[99t4]

Does anybody know what it feels like to ebike a 40 lb trailer?

Yes there is quite a bit of tugging and pulling felt, especially over bumps, potholes, uneven surfaces in general, driveway aprons, etc. Also a little sweaty navigating narrow/narrowing spaces, like on a sidewalk between telephone poles and fire hydrants, realitor signs, guy wires, etc. Braking is severely impacted as is hill climbing performance.

If it's mostly flat here to Texas, Miami. WOT all the way!

Gonna drain the battery quick!

 

[MarkJohnston]

Is that 8000 foot pass pretty gradual? I'll look up the info on the site

 

[MarkJohnston]

Ok
I think the trailer is the only way. I'm gonna Max that thing out with stuff. Probably 60lbs. So it's probably going to be 120 lbs of cargo. 35 in the panniers and the rest on the trailer. I'm planning on sticking to empty wide flat roads. I plan on camping in powered RV camps most days. I've got actually extra good spare batteries I can chuck in the trailer as backups. I have a 300 mile range at least. I can easily get though desert sections and get to the nearest RV campground. Or a motel if it's nice and the same price on the ground

 

[MarkJohnston]

I can always unhitch the damn trailer to go explore. I hope there are good RV parks near the national parks and stuff. I'm skipping grand canyon though been there done that. I just hope my cheap $200 kit holds. :|

 

[Chalo]

Is that 8000 foot pass pretty gradual? I'll look up the info on the site

If you stay near the I-10 corridor over the continental divide, your high point should be closer to 5000 feet.

I'd stay near I-10 just for the life support and charging opportunities. Once you get out of the desert, you can choose from a lot of routes.

 

[999zip999]

Where would your starting point be ? In California the state campgrounds do supply one space for people traveling on bicycles and a lot of times in the bathroom they will have an outlet. There are also hostiles. And E.S. members and others along the way.

 

[Mclewis1]

1. Use solar to extend your range (and to charge if nothing else is available.)
2. Ensure your battery(s) are removable and the charger is portable in case you have to take them inside a coffee shop or something to charge them.
3. Carry a long, thin gauge extension cord to charge your bike from outlets in awkward locations.
4. For opportunity charging speed is important, so choose a high power charger. (There are a dozen ways to get cheap ones.)

I'd add to #3 - Also carry a 2 or 3 into one adapter so that in the event you find a suitable outlet that's currently in use you can still add the charger. Just be sure not to interrupt anything critical. Stuff like vending machines and such are usually fine to stop and start.

It might also a good idea to a) also add a short pigtail like extension so you can get into outlets that may be a bit obstructed (power in sign legs and such) and b) tape the adapter/pigtail etc. all together so to ensure that you always have everything, as it's really easily to leave things like an adapter behind - especially if you're off before the first coffee of the day.