Ebike upgrade Bluvall SU8 - Help wanted

[LTO2632]

Hey guys first post here. I'm gonna need some help soon when the rest of my parts come in. Here is my bike and upcoming undertaking:

Bluvall SU8 "1500w 20ah 48v"

The upgrade will be:
•72v battery (20s, 15p) (I'll be building this myself with salvaged lishen cells (10a 3200mah) 85-90% health/capacity.
- JKBMS 200a continuous/350a max BMS w/0.6a balance and Bluetooth app.
•FarDriver Controller: ND72450
•DKD Display
•Full twist throttle with key and voltmeter display on it.

I'm leaving the stock "1500w" motor for now. Gonna see what It will do going from it's stock 48v 33a max controller to this new fardriver and 72v battery I'll build.
From what ive gathered online which is slim to nothing, (just researching clones from China manufacturers) is that my specific motor (if I'm right), will gladly run fine on the 7-10kw @72V I'll feed it. But ya know, will see. I have no other specs on it. If anyone knows anything, let me know. I'm gonna post pics with this post of everything relevant.

What I'm going to need help with when it gets here, is the new fardrivers hall wires and peripheral stuff, with the new display and making it all work.

I'll be fine making the new battery, as I'm pretty decent at battery builds already. I have never used the new BMS. The whole Bluetooth thing is gonna be new for me.

Also, just a note. This is my very first ebike. Had it for like 4 months. I've put a few thousand miles on it already. I have a electronics background with lots of wiring and battery building experience and I'm self taught in all this ebike world stuff so far. But this new fardriver and display and throttle and making it all work, id really appreciate help on.
I'll be as active and thorough on here as possible with people.
I think this will start to look like a Upgrade Log as I go.

This bike as of now, with the 33a stock (shunt modded) controller and 30a BMS on the stock battery went 33-34mph. Range was shit at like 12mi tops (@ full throttle the whole time on various road grades).

Anyways, hello to all, this is my bike/project, please help when and where you can. I appreciate you all in advance!

 

[Chalo]

Take the pedals off; they're a farce and nobody is buying the BS. It's a less stinky, stinkin' moped and it should not pretend to be a bike or enjoy any bike access. Get a plate, and insurance, and stay the f off bike lanes if you please.

 

[LTO2632]

Take the pedals off; they're a farce and nobody is buying the BS. It's a less stinky, stinkin' moped and it should not pretend to be a bike or enjoy any bike access. Get a plate, and insurance, and stay the f off bike lanes if you please.

Lol thank you. Yes, I plan to take the pedals and shamano off at some point and get foot pegs. Definitely after all the performance work is done and I have said machine working good. I've never used the pedals anyways.

 

[bananu7]

Take the pedals off; they're a farce and nobody is buying the BS. It's a less stinky, stinkin' moped and it should not pretend to be a bike or enjoy any bike access. Get a plate, and insurance, and stay the f off bike lanes if you please.

At least here, mopeds, in the "plated, 45km/h, registration/insurance" category historically used to come with pedals. They were used to get the bike up to speed and then start the motor off its inertia.

Here's one from 1966:



I think it looks sweet, personally. They were used for personal transportation before lithium-ion batteries were invented and people got all uppity about what vehicles were pretending to be something else. Maybe your country just needs better legislation, like NL, perhaps, to allow small non-pedalled mopeds (blue plate, up to 25km/h) on bike paths legally.

 

[E-HP]

I'm leaving the stock "1500w" motor for now. Gonna see what It will do going from it's stock 48v 33a max controller to this new fardriver and 72v battery I'll build.

That motor won’t last a day, maybe not even an hour.

 

[LTO2632]

Not gonna give it full controllers current capabilities. Was gonna test higher line currents incrementally till I can see that it's heating up too much/fast.
Besides that, can you recommend a motor? And from where? Preferably already strung to a fat tire rim if possible. That would be nice. IDK good places to get motors w rims.

 

[LTO2632]

Anyone have sources/urls to get hub motors that can come with fat tire rims w spokes?

 

[amberwolf]

Well, if they're a complete wheel, they'll have spokes. (unless it's a "mag rim" that's built as part of the motor, which can suck for multiple reasons).

However, unless you get one from places like ebikes.ca Grin Tech they'll probably come with the *wrong* spokes, usualy using 12g or thicker instead of the correct thin 14-15g butted spokes, as almost all motor wheel builders think that using thicker spokes makes a better wheel, when the opposite is true because they are not using rims capable of handling the higher tension those thicker spokes require (so the rims fail over time and spokes keep loosening / breaking, or the wheel falls apart while riding).

Also, "fat tire" means different things to differnet people and different wheel builders. 2.5" is fat for some bikes, riders, and builders, and others require at least 4" wide to call it fat. What do *you* want--something wider than what you already have? Or something that matches? For the latter, you'd have to specify what exactly you already have, for rim width, axle OLD width (dropout inside distance), and diameter.

If you're looking for *specific* motors, such as one that can do a specific job for you, you could specify exactly what that job is (total rider/bike/cargo/system/etc weight, speed, acceleration and range required, etc) and what worst-case conditions it has to do it under, such as what kind of terrain, hills, road conditions, weather, etc. With that info you can use simulators like those at ebikes.ca to find out what amount of power it takes to do that job, and thus what size motor it takes, along with how big a controller and battery it takes to do it. Without knowing that, we can point you to motors, but can't know if it might do what you want; could easily end up being completely insufficient for your purposes and you might have to buy a different one after testing it.


That said, unless you have specific requirements you can provide to us, web searches will show you many many many sources for any form of motor or wheel you can imagine. Here's a search using your exact phrase from your post, it's full of valid results. Google Search

 

[LTO2632]

Well, if they're a complete wheel, they'll have spokes. (unless it's a "mag rim" that's built as part of the motor, which can suck for multiple reasons).

However, unless you get one from places like ebikes.ca Grin Tech they'll probably come with the *wrong* spokes, usualy using 12g or thicker instead of the correct thin 14-15g butted spokes, as almost all motor wheel builders think that using thicker spokes makes a better wheel, when the opposite is true because they are not using rims capable of handling the higher tension those thicker spokes require (so the rims fail over time and spokes keep loosening / breaking, or the wheel falls apart while riding).

Also, "fat tire" means different things to differnet people and different wheel builders. 2.5" is fat for some bikes, riders, and builders, and others require at least 4" wide to call it fat. What do *you* want--something wider than what you already have? Or something that matches? For the latter, you'd have to specify what exactly you already have, for rim width, axle OLD width (dropout inside distance), and diameter.

If you're looking for *specific* motors, such as one that can do a specific job for you, you could specify exactly what that job is (total rider/bike/cargo/system/etc weight, speed, acceleration and range required, etc) and what worst-case conditions it has to do it under, such as what kind of terrain, hills, road conditions, weather, etc. With that info you can use simulators like those at ebikes.ca to find out what amount of power it takes to do that job, and thus what size motor it takes, along with how big a controller and battery it takes to do it. Without knowing that, we can point you to motors, but can't know if it might do what you want; could easily end up being completely insufficient for your purposes and you might have to buy a different one after testing it.


That said, unless you have specific requirements you can provide to us, web searches will show you many many many sources for any form of motor or wheel you can imagine. Here's a search using your exact phrase from your post, it's full of valid results. Google Search

Thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate it. Very informative.
What I have and what I need is this-
What I have (in pictures I believe): standard fat tire 20x4, not sure of dropout but I think 150mm. Weather here is going to be 70-90° for the next 5 months or so so I'll have slick/smooth motorcycle road tires.
For motor Id need something in the nominal 5-8kw range. (But for now, as per my post, I'll be using the stock 1500w motor and pushing it to it's thermal limits since I believe it has much more in it.

 

[E-HP]

Not gonna give it full controllers current capabilities. Was gonna test higher line currents incrementally till I can see that it's heating up too much/fast.

It’s a geared motor. Do you have a temp sensor on the stator? How are you going to “see” If it’s heating up too fast.

 

[LTO2632]

Thermal gun/laser temp

 

[E-HP]

It’s a geared motor. It will cook itself before it even gets lukewarm warm on the case.

 

[LTO2632]

It’s a geared motor. It will cook itself before it even gets lukewarm warm on the case.

Well that's why I'll be extra careful with the incremental increases in current. I'm not just gonna go buck wild and give it 250amps of current out the gate.
Like I said the stock controller was a 33a max. I'll start there and do 10a increases till I'm happy and make sure it's not going to over heat. Also, if somehow it does, I'll just do what I was going to do anyways and buy a new rim laced as motor and give it what I planned this build for anyways. I just wanna try the stock motor in the new fardriver and 72a battery and see what she do till then.