eCars - Compared! - 2017 update
- Thread starter DrkAngel
- Start date
DrkAngel
1 GW
How was MPGe figured?jmygann said:513 MPGe
http://www.evalbum.com/2311
"50 miles per $1 worth of energy" ... electricity?
"66 Wh/Mile" = 15.15 m/kWh
"20 mile range" @ 15.15 m/kWh = 1.35kWh battery
That would be 13-14lb of LiPo battery
Your SLA batteries weigh "280lb" ... ???
Something sounds wrong ... ?
72V x 84Ah ("6 SRM-24 batteries") = 6048W = 6kWh
6kWh / 20 miles = 300 Wh/mile = 3.33m/kWh
?
oatnet
1 MW
Jeremy Harris said:
There are 10+ year old RAV 4 EVs out with more than 100,000+ miles on the Odometer, demonstrating good cycle and calendar life.
-JD
DrkAngel
1 GW
There are horror stories about the cost of fueling electric cars and the "necessary" Grid upgrades.
Please use this, user friendly, bit of calculating, to clarify, just how little, eCar electricity should affect the Grid.
Let us try a little, simple math, might be a bit easier to understand.
Electric cars.
The Nisson Leaf and the 2012 Ford Focus are both rated at 100 mile range, with 24kWh and 23kWh batteries, respectively, and could be considered representative, based on quantity produced and manufacturers reputations. ecars compared
USA electric cost averages 11.53 cents per kWh.
Electric cost, by State
The math:
5,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles per charge
Equals 50 charges of
24kWh
Equals 1200 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$138.36 annual car "fuel" cost
$2.66 per week, added to your electric bill!
1200kWh /24hours =50 days
You could run your electric car for a full year, (5000 miles), using the same amount of electricity as the small 1000kWh air conditioner uses, running ... less than, 1 day per week!!!
or ...
You could run 7 eCars, each, 5000 miles annually, for the cost-electricity used by a 1 little 1000 watt air conditioner!
10,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles
Equals 100 charges of
24kWh
Equals 2400 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$276.72 annual car "fuel" cost
$23.06 monthly, added to your electric bill!
$5.32 per week.
A bit cheaper than $1,500 annual gasoline cost.
$125 monthly, dumped into your gas tank. ... if you average 25mpg ...
(Gas car ~25mpg)
( gasoline ~$3.75\gallon - when I passed the gas station tonight, well $3.759\gal. regular unleaded)
(10,000 miles/25mpg=400 gallons)
(400 gallons of gas x $3.75=$1500)
Don't despair, if you don't use an air conditioner, you probably use a small 1000 watt heater. Electrical usage compares, exactly the same.
Even better?
The entire electric grid has reduced demand from about 1am till 6am. (varies)
They are forced to idle power generation plants burning fuel and maintaining workforce with no product sale.
In many areas, they offer greatly reduced pricing during these hours, some, 50%, or less!
Charging during these "off hours" might allow you to cut "fuel" cost, another 50%.
With no, none, zilch, 0%, increased drain on the grid!
Please use this, user friendly, bit of calculating, to clarify, just how little, eCar electricity should affect the Grid.
Let us try a little, simple math, might be a bit easier to understand.
Electric cars.
The Nisson Leaf and the 2012 Ford Focus are both rated at 100 mile range, with 24kWh and 23kWh batteries, respectively, and could be considered representative, based on quantity produced and manufacturers reputations. ecars compared
USA electric cost averages 11.53 cents per kWh.
Electric cost, by State
The math:
5,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles per charge
Equals 50 charges of
24kWh
Equals 1200 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$138.36 annual car "fuel" cost
$2.66 per week, added to your electric bill!
1200kWh /24hours =50 days
You could run your electric car for a full year, (5000 miles), using the same amount of electricity as the small 1000kWh air conditioner uses, running ... less than, 1 day per week!!!
or ...
You could run 7 eCars, each, 5000 miles annually, for the cost-electricity used by a 1 little 1000 watt air conditioner!
10,000 annual miles:
Divided by 100 miles
Equals 100 charges of
24kWh
Equals 2400 kWh
Multiplied by $.1153
Equals
$276.72 annual car "fuel" cost
$23.06 monthly, added to your electric bill!
$5.32 per week.
A bit cheaper than $1,500 annual gasoline cost.
$125 monthly, dumped into your gas tank. ... if you average 25mpg ...
(Gas car ~25mpg)
( gasoline ~$3.75\gallon - when I passed the gas station tonight, well $3.759\gal. regular unleaded)
(10,000 miles/25mpg=400 gallons)
(400 gallons of gas x $3.75=$1500)
Don't despair, if you don't use an air conditioner, you probably use a small 1000 watt heater. Electrical usage compares, exactly the same.
Even better?
The entire electric grid has reduced demand from about 1am till 6am. (varies)
They are forced to idle power generation plants burning fuel and maintaining workforce with no product sale.
In many areas, they offer greatly reduced pricing during these hours, some, 50%, or less!
Charging during these "off hours" might allow you to cut "fuel" cost, another 50%.
With no, none, zilch, 0%, increased drain on the grid!
TylerDurden
100 GW
FYI:
Retail price of electricity is not cost to consumer. Fees and taxes can double the cost.
Retail price of electricity is not cost to consumer. Fees and taxes can double the cost.
There is one HUGE misconception about electric cars increasing the demand on the grid for electricity... You guys ever look into how much electricity goes into gasoline? Its a LOT. I heard it can take more electricity to make a car drive a certain distance on gasoline then it would just to use the very same car and charge batteries to drive it the same distance.... It was stated by Chris Paine in an interview but its a really hard thing to calculate...
I used to live in Alberta and worked for the oil industry for a while its not a pretty picture and it gives me my inspiration for electrics today. But you use electricity to power a rig to drill and fuel to drive and power that rig (which uses electricity) then the pump jack is set and it uses electricity to pump the oil out of the ground, then the oil is filled into a truck and driven to a refinery or pumped through a pipe to the refinery both using electricity either directly or indirectly, then the refinery uses a huge amount of electricity to refine the oil into gas and other products, then the gas is hauled to your gas station with big trucks using a big amount of fuel to drive which uses electricity to make, then its pumped into your gas station which is entirely powered by electricity and when you pump the gas into your car the pump it self uses electricity..... SO once you take that LOAD off the grid there will be more power to help replace the cars that need to be charged directly!
I just made it sound simple by the way there is some more steps in the process you shoud see all the energy wasted it makes me cry!
If anyone tries to tell you electricity needs to cost more because of this punch them in the face and kick them in the balls because I have had it with the bullshit!
I used to live in Alberta and worked for the oil industry for a while its not a pretty picture and it gives me my inspiration for electrics today. But you use electricity to power a rig to drill and fuel to drive and power that rig (which uses electricity) then the pump jack is set and it uses electricity to pump the oil out of the ground, then the oil is filled into a truck and driven to a refinery or pumped through a pipe to the refinery both using electricity either directly or indirectly, then the refinery uses a huge amount of electricity to refine the oil into gas and other products, then the gas is hauled to your gas station with big trucks using a big amount of fuel to drive which uses electricity to make, then its pumped into your gas station which is entirely powered by electricity and when you pump the gas into your car the pump it self uses electricity..... SO once you take that LOAD off the grid there will be more power to help replace the cars that need to be charged directly!
I just made it sound simple by the way there is some more steps in the process you shoud see all the energy wasted it makes me cry!
If anyone tries to tell you electricity needs to cost more because of this punch them in the face and kick them in the balls because I have had it with the bullshit!
Hillhater
100 TW
Arlo1 said:
some crude rough and ready estimates.. from internet data..
USA consumes ( so assume produces ?) approx 9 million barrels of gasoline each day http://www.npra.org/ourIndustry/refineryFacts/?fa=refineryStatistics
USA uses 49 billion kWhr of electricity per year to produce gasoline = 134 mil kWhr per day ( refining cost i assume)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_ele_con_by_pet_ref-energy-electricity-consumption-petroleum-refineries
Hence 1 barrel takes approx 14.9 kWhr of elec to produce.
1 Barrel = 42 gal = 159 litres
1gal uses 0.35 kWhr to "produce" ( refine ?)
Hillhater
100 TW
Arlo1 said:
Yes, but my "gut" feel is that refinery power usage will be the biggest single factor .
..but hey !,..double ,..or even treble, that figure...so you have 1kWhr per gal.
1 gal of petrol will take a modern 5 seat car 50 miles.
1kWhr of Epower in a modern EV (Leaf ?), might just get you 2-3 miles ?
DrkAngel
1 GW
2013-2014 eCars!
Pictures are from above site, some link to articles.
BMW i3
2013-prius-mpg-challenge-wave-one-winner-hits-356-mpge
Pictures are from above site, some link to articles.
BMW i3
2013-prius-mpg-challenge-wave-one-winner-hits-356-mpge
You forget the truck that hauls it to the gas station that you use for the purchase.Hillhater said:
Its been estimated to be more electricity to make a gas powered car drive X number of miles
then the same car just powered by electricity.
You have to look at
>the pump that runs on electricity to pull the oil out of the ground
>then the transport of the oil to the refinery in a pipe some times using special sites called batteries where they heat the oil so it will flow
> or truck will use an amount of electricity
>then the refinery it self
>then the transport of the fuel to the gas station
>then the gas station and its power it self>
If any of these steps use a truck powered by fuel that will use electricity to make as well....
This doesn't include the amount of energy used to drill the hole with a drilling rig or to maintain the hole with a service rig.
There is a crazy amount of electricity to get a gallon of gas in your tank and in my case we have to have a bardge or ferry haul it across an ocean as well.
DrkAngel
1 GW
friendly1uk
1 MW
There all a bit dull still. Nothing for the younger market who have been primed to accept electric vehicles all there life. I think the manufacturers might be avoiding electric kei cars. Making everyone take electric cars seriously.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Meet the world’s fastest pure-electric production car.
Click on picture for link. or
Right click and "view" for full picture.
~$135,000
Photo Gallery - Click on Picture
Click on picture for link. or
Right click and "view" for full picture.
~$135,000
Photo Gallery - Click on Picture
Chalo
100 TW
friendly1uk said:
I hate cars like poison, but I'd consider getting a kei van for my household. If I could fit in it, anyway.
Hillhater
100 TW
DrkAngel said:Meet the world’s fastest pure-electric production car.
~$135,000
ho hum ! ...why do they think a 20 year old design is a good basis for a $135k new car ?
I think the original lotus cast less than $20k new in 1996
I like that Lotus look alike car. Even so that I will put papers and scissors to work and make my own out of a car I have. 
yes it will look like one when I am finished!
eMpg is generally not understood by the wide puplic. Not even so that batteries are keept at 20-80% charge. Customers might also think that "by running and pushing the car the battery gets charged"? haha no! But just so funny people don't say that. 8)
Just been reading all night long about what this guy is doing DIY ev car http://blog.mr2ev.com/
yes it will look like one when I am finished!eMpg is generally not understood by the wide puplic. Not even so that batteries are keept at 20-80% charge. Customers might also think that "by running and pushing the car the battery gets charged"? haha no! But just so funny people don't say that. 8)
Just been reading all night long about what this guy is doing DIY ev car http://blog.mr2ev.com/
DrkAngel
1 GW
I'm still looking for an eCar project body.
Weight and aerodynamics are my concerns.
"In city" with a 30mph speed limit, weight is most important.
Acceleration from each stoplight is the majority of electrical usage.
Highway, on the other hand is constant cruising at higher speeds.
Weight is a minimal factor, while wind resistance is major.
A Corvette shell would be great for either.
Ideal would seem to be a Bradley GT.
A popular 20th century conversion, they built a variety of sporty, lightweight fiberglass bodies that bolted to a Volkswagon Beetle chassis. eConversions weigh in at 1200lb plus battery weight.
Weight and aerodynamics are my concerns.
"In city" with a 30mph speed limit, weight is most important.
Acceleration from each stoplight is the majority of electrical usage.
Highway, on the other hand is constant cruising at higher speeds.
Weight is a minimal factor, while wind resistance is major.
A Corvette shell would be great for either.
Ideal would seem to be a Bradley GT.
A popular 20th century conversion, they built a variety of sporty, lightweight fiberglass bodies that bolted to a Volkswagon Beetle chassis. eConversions weigh in at 1200lb plus battery weight.
The fingers
10 TW
I want a Chevrolet Corvolt.
Chalo
100 TW
The fingers said:
For "a little" over half a million bucks, you can have something much better than that:
[youtube]Ki_m4ia9xDE[/youtube]
The fingers
10 TW
Chalo said:
I still want a Corvolt. :lol:
IBScootn
100 W
Lumeneo Smera
http://www.lumeneo.fr/smera_external_design_eng.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumeneo_SMERA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lumeneo_Smera_2008.JPG]
Sounds like 150WH/mile; I'd take one; if they would sell them in the states
http://www.lumeneo.fr/smera_external_design_eng.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumeneo_SMERA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lumeneo_Smera_2008.JPG]
Sounds like 150WH/mile; I'd take one; if they would sell them in the states
fivari
10 W
Or this Eliica family car?Chalo said:
[youtube]m_SukHloP5w[/youtube]
zEEz
1 kW
this car too is not burning fuel but the tarmac
