Ecotric Swallow 14 inch information needed

[zort]

Many years ago, my son's family purchased an Ecotric Swallow 14-inch ebike. It worked well for them for them and they had fun. Then it just set in the garage.
Recently my granddaughter expressed interest in riding it. By then the battery was completely dead and they asked me to see if I could bring it back to life.
They had lost the key to release the battery so I first picked the lock and got it off. Eventually I was able to bring the battery back to life (shows 41.6 volts) and reinstalled it; however, it wouldn't turn on.
I contacted Ecotric but that bike is no longer supported and they could not give me any information about it except a generic wiring diagram.

The display is an 810 with 6 wires.
The controller is marked LCO3614E1H-TS22 and on the top reads TS 2018 05. It is tiny about 3.1 X 2.1 X 1.1 inches (80 X 54 X 31 mm)

I attempted to test the controller with a multimeter. The "plug" to the motor reads 41.6 volts and I assumed that some of the other plugs should give a voltage reading, either 41.6 or 5 but none of them show a voltage. My first question is shouldn't the connector to the display have voltage from the red and black wires? In fact, I would think that all of the connectors that have a red and black should show voltage, shouldn't they?

Regarding the display, I find a lot of information about 4 wire and 5 wire 810 displays, but little about 6 wire ones. What is the purpose of the white wire? The connection is wired: red, white, black, yellow, green, blue. I haven't opened the display to see what goes where inside.

I am a total novice at attempting to work on this bike and the family doesn't want to spend much $$ to fix it.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

 

[E-HP]

I see some pics, but none of the display and connector you described. A pic might help identify which you have.

 

[zort]

Sure, here is a picture of the display and its connector:

 

[zort]

Also, here is a better picture of the corresponding connector on the controller

 

[Chalo]

BMS protected batteries can show a voltage on a multimeter even when they're cut off. The giveaway that the BMS has tripped and cut the battery off is that the initial measurement will be close to total pack voltage, but it will drift downwards as you continue to measure it (then back up as you stop measuring). Leakage across the MOSFETs creates a readable but unsteady voltage that isn't backed up by any current to carry a load.

Unless you have probed every cell group in the battery pack and found that they're all within the operating range and close to each other, you can't assume the battery works. If the BMS has cut it off, even the display won't turn on.

 

[E-HP]

I attempted to test the controller with a multimeter. The "plug" to the motor reads 41.6 volts and I assumed that some of the other plugs should give a voltage reading, either 41.6 or 5 but none of them show a voltage. My first question is shouldn't the connector to the display have voltage from the red and black wires? In fact, I would think that all of the connectors that have a red and black should show voltage, shouldn't they?

Regarding the display, I find a lot of information about 4 wire and 5 wire 810 displays, but little about 6 wire ones. What is the purpose of the white wire? The connection is wired: red, white, black, yellow, green, blue. I haven't opened the display to see what goes where inside.

Sure, here is a picture of the display and its connector:

Thanks for the pics. Unfortunately the links to several of the S810 displays that I have in my newb FAQ appear to be dead (the PDF pulls up, but appears blank/corrupt). I found a few of the manuals on my hard drive, but not for your specific model. However, they may answer some of your questions.

This is a copy of the wiring for one of the 6 pin displays, and comparing with the other displays, I think its safe to say that red and black are battery(+) and battery (-), so you should see battery level voltage between those conductors, if your display is plugged into the controller and the controller has the battery attached. On most displays, the blue conductor is used to turn on the controller, feeding battery (+) through to the blue wire when the display is switched on. Also, on all of the versions, the green wire is used to control the assist levels.

I don't see that lights are supported on your display, but on the other 6 wire displays, the yellow and white power the ebike lights.

If you aren't getting voltage on the red and black, then something is wrong with the connections or the controller.

 

[docw009]

You're sure that 6 pin connector goes to the display? The Ecotric controller will have a 6 pin connector that goes to the Hall sensors in motor cable. Mine is a female JST plug with the wires in the same order. I'm looking at my old Ecotric box. What does your motor cable look like? Should be 3 bullets and a 5 or 6 pin harness.

I have the 4 pin analog units and one 5 pin digital 810LED. Never heard of a 6 pin. Maybe Ecotric also uses this controller with a 5 pin LCD display with the sixth pin for lights.,

Well, if it is truly the 810LED connector, I would disconnect the battery and do a continuity tests from the Red and Black battery pins til I identified the battery and ground pin on the connector in your photo, Once you have identified those pins, and they should be the corresponding red/black wires, I would expect you to be able to connect the battery and find power on them too.

 

[Chalo]

Try connecting the controller directly to the pack + and - terminals, bypassing the BMS. If the controller and display will turn on, you have a battery problem. DO NOT run the bike that way. Only do it for diagnostics.

 

[zort]

OMG!!!! Please excuse my stupidity and/or laziness. I did not upwrap the cables to visually see the connector from the display. I was completely wrong. The connector that I earlier thought to the display, is to the motor as docw009 said.

So to start anew. If I connect only the display to the controller should the display turn on?

In the attached picture, the battery is off, but the controller is connected to it and the display is connected to the controller. Will it damage the controller if I turn the battery and display on as connected?

 

[zort]

Try connecting the controller directly to the pack + and - terminals, bypassing the BMS. If the controller and display will turn on, you have a battery problem. DO NOT run the bike that way. Only do it for diagnostics.

I understand your concerns about the battery; I have also tested this with another 36 volt battery pack from a scooter.

 

[E-HP]

OMG!!!! Please excuse my stupidity and/or laziness. I did not upwrap the cables to visually see the connector from the display. I was completely wrong. The connector that I earlier thought to the display, is to the motor as docw009 said.

So to start anew. If I connect only the display to the controller should the display turn on?

In the attached picture, the battery is off, but the controller is connected to it and the display is connected to the controller. Will it damage the controller if I turn the battery and display on as connected?

If the display cable is the one that goes off the photo and back into the photo on the left side, then yes, it should fire up.

 

[zort]

If the display cable is the one that goes off the photo and back into the photo on the left side, then yes, it should fire up.

Yes, I was just worried that not having any loads on the controller might fry it. (Since, obviously, I don't know what I am doing)

 

[zort]

Test successful--The display lights up. I can't imagine why it wouldn't light up when everything was connected to the controller.

Step 2: Can I lift the rear wheel off the ground, connect the motor and throttle to see if it runs?

 

[E-HP]

Step 2: Can I lift the rear wheel off the ground, connect the motor and throttle to see if it runs?

If you do, and it doesn't run smoothly, then don't keep running it until further diagnosis.

 

[zort]

Update--First test only partially successful. The display turns itself off whenever it gets moved around. I suspect a wire is loose inside or there is a broken wire in the line. Also, the display gets very warm, not quite hot.

Any suggestions on how to open the display?

If not, I'll probably just spring for one. Looks like they are only about $20 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Display-Func...qid=1748473360&sprefix=s810+di,aps,139&sr=8-4

 

[zort]

If you do, and it doesn't run smoothly, then don't keep running it until further diagnosis.

I didn't get to this step yet as the display just kept turning off almost every time I moved it.

 

[docw009]

Update--First test only partially successful. The display turns itself off whenever it gets moved around. I suspect a wire is loose inside or there is a broken wire in the line. Also, the display gets very warm, not quite hot.

Any suggestions on how to open the display?

If not, I'll probably just spring for one. Looks like they are only about $20 on Amazon

It should not get warm. Make sure it's not the JST connector. The wires can fray down to one or two strands.

If you buy one, they come in 24V, 36V, and 48V, The different voltage models are not interchangeable and only work with the indicated battery voltage. Your amazon seller did not say whether you get a 36V or 48V. It cannot be both, so find another seller that knows what he is selling, Also make sure it's got the same wire layout, which I expect is 4 wire for Ecotric models,

 

[E-HP]

If not, I'll probably just spring for one. Looks like they are only about $20 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Display-Function-Tuning-Electric-Scooter/dp/B0F91ZB39H/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1ZBE4AYWAH0FX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bdcHAIpSyOIFmhiQ5iJYINsCsjDY7nO7u4n7LIKzjHc1Tj323nve2m_hhkDbwNUm2in7RbFGJUuKiDm3zZrR0hg0h54_pa3sxjZaF7qGnueaLGt-atBFCDk2iR5WEpkmXx0cds6reO9owZuAlHO1Ow.YkU6Gv2bz_ZMRYOotW0ttt1b8bYciQh-xN4lZ2KMiz8&dib_tag=se&keywords=s810+led+display&qid=1748473360&sprefix=s810+di,aps,139&sr=8-4

I only see four conductors.

 

[docw009]

FYI, the analog 4 wire version is very simple to test.

Red 36V or whatever your battery says,
Blue is zero when off, switches to 36V when 810LED turns on
Green is zero when off, switches to 1V, 2V, 3V or 4V to signal PAS 1,2,3 and walk mode,
Black=Ground

 

[zort]

FYI, the analog 4 wire version is very simple to test.

Red 36V or whatever your battery says,
Blue is zero when off, switches to 36V when 810LED turns on
Green is zero when off, switches to 1V, 2V, 3V or 4V to signal PAS 1,2,3 and walk mode,
Black=Ground

Thanks for the explanation!

I started to order a display and decided to carefully check the connector. Even though it only has 4 wires, the connector I have is a 5 pin connector.
Pin 1-Red
Pin 2-Blue
Pin 3-Black
Pin 4-Green
Pin 5 is unused

Is it usual to use a 5 pin connector even though only 4 are used, or should I order a 5 wire display (assuming the 5th wire is for a light) even though the light will not be used.

Or, should I just order the 4 wire display and go through the possible agony of switching the wires from one connector to the other?

 

[E-HP]

Might be time to consider getting a new bike. I myself would never let my kid ride an ebike that has a battery that was improperly stored and needed to be "brought back to life". In any case, I would never charge that battery indoors or unattended. If you're replacing parts, then the battery should be the first one to replace, since that one could kill you or burn down your house.

 

[docw009]

It's time to take stock of your work.. There was a bike with a dead battery. It really helps when you give people an idea of what you have. Ecotric is a obscure brand, but I owned the 2019 20" fat tire folder for a few years and I think they're decent for an inexpensive chinese bike.

You got the battery up to 41.6V, which is almost full charge for a 36V battery. Suggests it's might still work, if you get the bike working. I have lot of batteries from 2018 that were lightly used and still good,

When you plugged the battery in, nothing happened? No Led's on the 810 display?
Then you pulled it all apart, or at least you pulled the controller. This s where you should make notes on what you pulled apart, although there are not a lot of connectors here, and I don't think one can mismatch them.

If the controller lights up, the bike is ready to run. Throttle and pedal assist should be active, You say it does, but powers down when moved. You took it off the handlebars.

If you can measure 41.6V, then you have a voltmeter and that's all you need to fully test an 810LED by itself. Like I wrote, if you put battery across red/black, when the 810 turns on, blue will read same as battery. Green will be 1V. Increase the PAS levels, Level 2 is 2V and level 3 is 3 V. Turn on Walk mode, and it's 4V. If all this happens, the 810LED should be good, except it's not supposed to be warm. If the wires are crossed, that could happen.

Working on ebikes usually requires voltmeter, and solder capbility, but you could get some thin wire crimps and make connections that way. Attach the old Ecotric connector to the new 810LED if you need one.

 

[Chalo]

You got the battery up to 41.6V, which is almost full charge for a 36V battery.

Without cell group data, for all we know there could be groups at 4.3V+ and others lagging. Any dead battery deserves more diagnostics than we've heard described here.

 

[zort]

It's time to take stock of your work.. There was a bike with a dead battery. It really helps when you give people an idea of what you have. Ecotric is a obscure brand, but I owned the 2019 20" fat tire folder for a few years and I think they're decent for an inexpensive chinese bike.
View attachment 370901
You got the battery up to 41.6V, which is almost full charge for a 36V battery. Suggests it's might still work, if you get the bike working. I have lot of batteries from 2018 that were lightly used and still good,

When you plugged the battery in, nothing happened? No Led's on the 810 display?
Then you pulled it all apart, or at least you pulled the controller. This s where you should make notes on what you pulled apart, although there are not a lot of connectors here, and I don't think one can mismatch them.

If the controller lights up, the bike is ready to run. Throttle and pedal assist should be active, You say it does, but powers down when moved. You took it off the handlebars.

If you can measure 41.6V, then you have a voltmeter and that's all you need to fully test an 810LED by itself. Like I wrote, if you put battery across red/black, when the 810 turns on, blue will read same as battery. Green will be 1V. Increase the PAS levels, Level 2 is 2V and level 3 is 3 V. Turn on Walk mode, and it's 4V. If all this happens, the 810LED should be good, except it's not supposed to be warm. If the wires are crossed, that could happen.

Working on ebikes usually requires voltmeter, and solder capbility, but you could get some thin wire crimps and make connections that way. Attach the old Ecotric connector to the new 810LED if you need one.

When I started trying to fix this bike, all I knew was that it was an Ecotric Swallow. I could find very little information about it on the web. One of my first steps was to contact Ecotric regarding the bike, their response was simply the bike was no longer made and no longer supported. Obviously, from my first blunder I knew little about the electronics of an ebike. But I have learned a lot from this experience-and I love learning.

After searching Amazon for an 810 display for several hours, I again contacted Ecotic regarding the 810 and its 5 pin jst with 4 wires and they responded that the 810 meter for the Vortex bike was the same design and should work. I ordered it this morning and so it is time to wait for its arrival

 

[zort]

Without cell group data, for all we know there could be groups at 4.3V+ and others lagging. Any dead battery deserves more diagnostics than we've heard described here.

I completely understand your concerns. I have worked with Lithium-Ion batteries for many years--going back to when they were first introduced on laptops.
My experience has been that when a battery sits for a long time what happens is that the battery management system (which uses a small amount of electricity) actually discharges the battery to a level that the bms no longer recognizes the charge in the battery. When this happens the bms will not allow the battery to be charged and in some cases the individual cells deteriorate.
This was not the case for this battery. It slides into a connector on the bike and locks into place. The key had been lost and my son told me it wouldn't charge. I picked the lock and removed the battery from the bike. It had about 34 volt charge, so it was not at such a low level. I set it outside and attached the charger. I checked the charge about every hour and it slowly charged until I removed it at 41.6 volts.
After it charged, I reattached it to the bike and the bike wouldn't turn on.

With the help of good people on this site, I determined that the issue is with the 810 display-at least I hope that is the problem.

I would never delivery this bike to my granddaughter without knowing the battery is safe to use; so, while I am waiting for the delivery of the display, I will do a deep dive test on the battery.