Electric Go-Kart Project Advice.

[The Mighty Volt]

I know a go-kart is not a bike, but its not a motorbike, a scooter, or really a "vehicle" of any sort, its of such limited application in comparison to those items, that I felt best to come here. Mods, please move this if I am in wrong place.

My brother is a qualified mechanic and recently started a preliminary mechanical engineering course. He has a bit of disposable income and used to be an E-sceptic. A few jonts on my X5305 BMX at 3000w soon cured him of that. As an ICE head, and former owner of both 2-stroke and 4-stroke dirt-bikes, he knows what ICE engines are capable of in a cart.

Here is the conundrum. He can do all the fabricating. He can weld ice cubes to butter, no problem. He can make his own cart. But the motors, controllers are a mystery to him. And me too.

What he wants, and probably without using an Agni, is enough power to keep up with if not surpass the 2-stroke ICE guys. While the E-motor is lighter than the gearbox and the motor of a 2 stroker, the batteries, even LiFePo4, bring the weight back up.

He want's wheel spins, wheel-burning, high revs, and something he can gear down into high torque.

He keeps taking the facts and figures of the X5 at 72v and tries to super-impose them onto the non-hub scenario, which I know is a false science. The X5305 at 100Amps has, according to the Ebikes.ca sim, a lot of torque, but I have seen these chain-drive motors in action and I know their rated torque outputs belie their power.

Yet when we work out on paper what the relevant motors and batteries are capable of producing, it always seems, on paper, to be quite underwhelming.

What should I be telling him? He won't spend the $$$ on EV stuff unless it can beat the ICE, or match it. He's looking for 30-40mph, 20+ horsepower, 30lb-ft or more of torque. Then there is the the controller. While I have moved on to modding my own BLDC controller, some of these motors are brushed and the entire KELLY/ALLTRAX scene is news to me. I am an Ed Lyen man. This is new territory for me.

The Etek offers a better RPM/V than the Perm, but the Perm is popular for a reason. Are reconditioned Agnis reliable? Worth a look? The 6000+ RPM is appealing.

He can be convinced to spend money if it is for what is a guaranteed BOSS set-up. Unfortunately, I can't guarantee him anything, because I have never built a chain-drive application. Not even a Cyclone.

Any suggestions???

 

[recumpence]

The big issue is batteries for this application.

Definately run Lipo batteries. They are the highest power density of anything out there. They are also small and super high discharge capable.

The Agni is a good motor choice.

To give your friend an idea of power, I built a tadpole trike (kind of like a 3 wheeled go-kart with two wheels up front and one in the rear) that was 40hp peak that would smoke the tire and run 0 to 70 in 3.5 seconds. All up weight was 105 pounds.

Power is not a problem for EVs if setup properly.

Matt

 

[The Mighty Volt]

The big issue is batteries for this application.

Definately run Lipo batteries. They are the highest power density of anything out there. They are also small and super high discharge capable.

The Agni is a good motor choice.

To give your friend an idea of power, I built a tadpole trike (kind of like a 3 wheeled go-kart with two wheels up front and one in the rear) that was 40hp peak that would smoke the tire and run 0 to 70 in 3.5 seconds. All up weight was 105 pounds.

Power is not a problem for EVs if setup properly.

Matt

Voltage?? The scooter wouldn't hit 70 with the tiny wheels, would it??

Are the reconditioned Agni and Perms trustworthy???

Thanks.

 

[recumpence]

The big issue is batteries for this application.

Definately run Lipo batteries. They are the highest power density of anything out there. They are also small and super high discharge capable.

The Agni is a good motor choice.

To give your friend an idea of power, I built a tadpole trike (kind of like a 3 wheeled go-kart with two wheels up front and one in the rear) that was 40hp peak that would smoke the tire and run 0 to 70 in 3.5 seconds. All up weight was 105 pounds.

Power is not a problem for EVs if setup properly.

Matt

Voltage?? The scooter wouldn't hit 70 with the tiny wheels, would it??

Are the reconditioned Agni and Perms trustworthy???

Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAMus3oSdw

I do not know about the reconditioned motors.

Matt

 

[The Mighty Volt]

neither do I, literally or metaphorically. I'm not sure about trusting them.

What is the story with these "Inrunner" and "Outrunner"........too small for Karts, probably??

I know this is a sort of a "how long is a piece of string" question, but who makes the best controllers out there, price range of say, $300 or so.??

I am looking for dog reliability more than bells-and-whistles.

Thanks.

 

[ken will]

Voltage?? The scooter wouldn't hit 70 with the tiny wheels, would it??

According to http://www.gokarts.com

"The fastest ones can go way over 100mph with some of the best approaching 160mph! "
.
.

 

[recumpence]

Its all about rpm. The fastest RC car runs over 160mph with 3 inch wheels.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Its all about rpm. The fastest RC car runs over 160mph with 3 inch wheels.

Cheers. The Mars Etek is offering 72 RPM per volt. My brother reckons that 1A per 1.2in-b of torque is a bit pants, he would have to gear it down 4-1 to get the sort of torque needs. Do you have any idea, practically speaking , what effect that would have on his top-end/HP?? Thanks for your help.

 

[E-bike4life]

Its all about rpm. The fastest RC car runs over 160mph with 3 inch wheels.

+1 This is the reason 4-stroke motors reach 50mph on go-karts and 2-stroke motors hit 100mph+

 

[Hillhater]

Its all about rpm. The fastest RC car runs over 160mph with 3 inch wheels.

+1 This is the reason 4-stroke motors reach 50mph on go-karts and 2-stroke motors hit 100mph+

that just shows your limited knowledge of karts and ICE motors !

an hours "googling" would provide all the info needed for this project.
Start by searching "gravitron"..
BUT.. you will need at least 20kW to keep pace with a real kart, so think how much battery you will need to run that for a few laps ! ..

 

[Whiplash]

I would guess about 10KWH or about $3000 worth of Lipo! You might be able to get away with 5KWH so 1500ish bucks.... That should get you about 20 minutes or so of WOT if you are not on it 100% of the time...

 

[Hillhater]

10kW hr would weigh over 80kg...a bit of a handycap on a kart that only weighs 70Kg !!

 

[liveforphysics]

Perm132's on these karts. 450amp controllers. 35Ah 14S packs. They gave us about ~15-20mins of hard riding on a charge.

[youtube]YazSVi36_X8[/youtube]

 

[AussieJester]

10kW hr would weigh over 80kg...a bit of a handycap on a kart that only weighs 70Kg !!

The sacrifices one must make to have electric

I have a couple friends recently bitten by the gokart bug, one of then already has 4 karts And they aren't even racing them on public tracks (both have tracks on their property) the money these two are pouring into these things makes my ebike budget look minuscule, that said for the price of the batteries for an electric setup that will only run 15 minutes you can buy an entire ice kart. So voltdude, is electric a must? If so its going to be costly for something you will likely use for a few hours and get bored of then be stuck with. I've been out a handful of times with the mates karts, im bored with them already, unless your racing and there's some completion they are a bit like a jetski, fun for 20 minutes, then you're over them.

Wanna try cart first maybe? Perhaps pick up a small 4 stroke motor first, they can be picked up for under a few hundred bucks bolt em on and your ready too rip for hours, see how you like it, at least it won't be a case of have one ride then sit and twiddle your thumbs for 6 hours waiting for the batteries to charge so the next person can have a blast, money vs fun factor isn't in favor of the lecky in this instance imho..jm2cw

KiM

 

[Hillhater]

What he wants, and probably without using an Agni, is enough power to keep up with if not surpass the 2-stroke ICE guys.

... He won't spend the $$$ on EV stuff unless it can beat the ICE, or match it.

... He's looking for 30-40mph, 20+ horsepower, 30lb-ft or more of torque.

He (you ?) needs to understand that 30-40 mph wont hack it against a half decent 2 stroke kart !

 

[Whiplash]

Yeah, not even in the same zip code!

 

[Arlo1]

Subscribed to see how this goes! You need ~20kw you can get a lot of lipo and make er rip! for ~$1500 you can get 15 minutes of 20kw full throttle action with the hard case 4s lipo turnigy packs! I have been working on this my self a lot lately and one thing I plan is using colossus for this although I need a KILLER controller that doesn't exist yet so.... I'm working on that first! As for what I have seen work on you tube is golf kart motors and 400+ amp controllers as well forklift motors! You wont find the high power brushless motors that will make you happy and reliable just yet but a bunch of us are working on it!!! Use a cheep simple brushed system then work up to a brushless when its available and you have more money!

[youtube]YxUlJjjREZE[/youtube] [youtube]3UOToi0fHNs[/youtube]

 

[Byte]

That go-kart is insane! Any information about motor, controller and batteries?

 

[liveforphysics]

We raced our little Perm 132 karts from the video I linked against the kleen-speed kart with way more hp, and smoked it on the kart track.

http://www.kleenspeed.com/e-karts/

The power you need is really about the track you're racing on.

 

[Hillhater]

:lol: :lol: Ha Ha ! ..that "kleenspeed" kart is a real porker and an excellent example of of the problem with getting enough battery on board for a race distance.. I am surprised it didnt drop its battery pack on the track.
It would be better with HK nanotechs, but still not practical for a competitive kart facing a 20 min race.

 

[marcexec]

since it wasn't mentioned already:
[youtube]vwODx028_Jw[/youtube]

The smoke is from the clutch I think...