electric motor upgrade

[latecurtis]

I have a couple questions I feel are important. my currie ezip 24 volt motor and controller works ok on flat ground but not good at all on hills. I took the original batteries out of the case as they were spent. I replaced them with two 12 volt 22Ah batteries from max life for $85 with free shipping. I noticed that the wires inside the case for the original batteries were not bigger than 16 gage. around 18 gage maybe but the length of the connections in the case were less than a foot. I used 16 gage speaker wire to wire them in series and mounted them in the triangle. I will be upgrading to 12 gage wire if I need to. However the major problem is the throttle and the weight. I weigh 240 pounds and with the 22Ah batteries the bike is over 90 pounds. The 450 watt motor is not beefy enough to get me up even slight hills without peddling, and I have a severally impaired right knee. My throttle is also kind of broken. This is bad but also good in a way. It has a switch for pedal assist and twist and go. before the throttle broke I would have to continually hold the throttle with my right hand to go. I have severe arthritis in that hand as I broke it several times when I was younger punching things.
maybe even carpo tunnel. my hand would hurt really bad and go numb when travelling any distance. Now that the throttle is kind of broke It will engage with a slight twist and I can take my hand off the throttle and it will remain activated. When I want it to stop I simply flick the switch to pedal assist. However I don't think it is operating at maximum power. Is there any way I could replace the throttle with a switch which would be say 50% power for cruising on flat land and when going up a hill Flick the switch for full power. This would solve a part of my problem, but even when the bike was brand new and broke in before I changed anything it was terrible on hills. Now its a little worse so it went from terrible to horrible. I took a course in college about 20 years ago on electric circuits. I don't remember much but if not mistaken volts * amps = watts. I know I cant upgrade to 36 volts without changing the controller and adding another battery which would be ridiculous due to the weight and cost. But what about beefing up the motor so it draws more amps. this should theoretically increase the wattage using the same voltage. The question is how much more power do I need.
I would say at least 50% minimum. 75 to 100% more ideally. Where would I go to have this done? Can I order a different 24 volt motor which is 700 to 1000 watts. a front wheel kit is way too expensive for me at this time. and if I hit a pothole Ill be out over $400 dollars. Is there any way I could do these upgrades for say $100 to $150 dollars. Please somebody steer me in the right direction here. It would be greatly appreciated .

 

[Dauntless]

If you had your weight there I missed it. You're not close to taking a serious hill. At 200 pounds I've been a serious load for a 750w, which has the same 24v 30a controller it's a safe bet is on yours. More amperage in the batteries doesn't mean more torque if you can't get it to the motor.

There's a string of posts on ES of people claiming success with the 36v controller from Currie, mostly on scooters but from what I can tell it's the same controllers. Maybe this would do.

https://www.curriestore.com/bikes-scooters/SD-10007-1201317014/

This is the throttle, not sure I'm familiar with the Curries being hard to hold down. You might seek a thumb throttle.

https://www.curriestore.com/bikes-scooters/TH-XH2DL-003A201317034/

 

[dogman dan]

First, you are a big guy, so the laws of physics do mean you will need more watts to raise a weight up than somebody lighter. Then the lead makes the bike heavy too.

Second, "steep hill" to one guy is one thing, and another to somebody else. Getting up hills without pedaling is difficult compared to pedaling. I understand not pedaling, I was very sick and unable to pedal much for 3 years. You do what you can.

A good place to go to measure your hill is a website called map my ride. It's hill estimates are more accurate if you map just a mile or so at a time. Bottom line, 450 watts should get you up 5% hills, but if you have 10% then 1000w will work much better. If you have 12-15%, well, you need a LOT more watts. More than that motor can take.

You should be able to run your bike on 36v, with a new controller. But then you will have to add even more battery weight. Look to threads by Dark Angel for the info on modifying Currie bikes. At 36v, you should have at least 800-1000w.

Fortunately there is one fix that is easier. You can find a left handed throttle. They are rare, but they do exist. Look first at places that sell scooter parts on line. Maybe ask the boys here in a separate thread in Ebike technical or general section.

I use what I call hillbilly cruise control. With a half twist throttle, I just jam the grip against the throttle till it's sticky. Then on long runs I don't need to grip hard. I just lay an open palm over the top of the grip, and it's enough to hold the throttle open.

 

[lbz5mc12]

If I knew where you lived I'd offer to sell you my 24V 10Ah lithium battery from my Ezip Skyline that I don't use any more because I broke the bike frame. It would definitely lighten your load.I

If you want to do an upgrade to higher voltage you could try this controller and throttle combo, http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/currie-36-volt-5-pin-controller-throttle.html. As far as your batteries, to get 36V without too much weight you might consider going for lower Ah batteries say between 10-15Ah.

I have a Currie Kit on my bike and I'm using this controller http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=41_74&product_id=498 . It's a bit lower watt than one of the Currie controllers but it doesn't have the power cut off feature which comes in newer model Currie controllers which is one thing I find annoying about Currie controllers. With either of these controllers you'll still have to twist the throttle, they have no PAS.

You might consider buying a thumb throttle and mounting it on the other side to use with your good hand. http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/thumb-throttle-electric-bike-conversion-kit-currie.html this throttle will work with 36V. I actually have one of these throttles already spliced to a 5 pin connector which plugs into this controller http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/currie-36-volt-5-pin-controller-throttle.html. If you want I could just sell you my 36V Currie controller and thumb throttle since I'm not using them now, say $30.00 plus shipping?

 

[latecurtis]

will this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-1000W-15Mosfets-E-Bike-Scooter-Brushless-Hub-Motor-Controller-/321376968747?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&var=&hash=item4ad38f602b



and this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-10Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-WITH-CHARGER-/380601910008?pt=US_Power_Tools_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item589da442f8

I like the controller to be able to upgrade again to 48 volts to run this - 48 Volt 1000 Watt MY1020 Scooter Motor w/t Mounting Bracket (Scratch-n-Dent)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Volt-1000-Watt-MY1020-Scooter-Motor-w-t-Mounting-Bracket-Scratch-n-Dent-/221423835540?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338de39994&vxp=mtr

I will get a second LIFEPOW4 also. I wish I could get a lightweight aluminum 700c setup with 4 of those LIPOs and the 1000 watt motor. I would use the leadass currie for pulling shopping carts around and running over potholes. it,s a tough bike. almost indestructible.

 

[latecurtis]

will this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-1000W-15Mosfets-E-Bike-Scooter-Brushless-Hub-Motor-Controller-/321376968747?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&var=&hash=item4ad38f602b



and this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-10Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-WITH-CHARGER-/380601910008?pt=US_Power_Tools_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item589da442f8

I like the controller to be able to upgrade again to 48 volts to run this - 48 Volt 1000 Watt MY1020 Scooter Motor w/t Mounting Bracket (Scratch-n-Dent)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-Volt-1000-Watt-MY1020-Scooter-Motor-w-t-Mounting-Bracket-Scratch-n-Dent-/221423835540?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item338de39994&vxp=mtr

I will get a second LIFEPOW4 also. I wish I could get a lightweight aluminum 700c setup with 4 of those LIPOs and the 1000 watt motor. I would use the leadass currie for pulling shopping carts around and running over potholes. it,s a tough bike. almost indestructible.

 

[latecurtis]

I forgot to say I have no idea how I would hook everything up. also I am interested in the twist throttles with the cheap Chinese cruise control. lol

 

[latecurtis]

sorry I posted same message twice. sticky keyboard.

 

[Dauntless]

THere's an 'X' between the 'Edit' and 'Quote' buttons to remove the accidently 2nd post, I'm not sure it works after additional posts.

will this work?

No no, here's how this works: People aorund here will prognosticate on whether the prospects of it are good, occasionally there might be something you're strongly advised to avoid, (Such as trying to use that brushless controller with a brushed motor) but as an absolute you're not just told yes/no on the 'Works.' As long as you can get pictures you can get real good help figuring out wiring.

The consensus up until now points to the Currie equipment works best with a Currie controller, though there might be circumstances that bogged down the 3rd party equipment in some cases, such as the wiring going amiss.

I like the controller to be able to upgrade again to 48 volts to run this - 48 Volt 1000 Watt MY1020 Scooter Motor w/t Mounting Bracket (Scratch-n-Dent)

I'm getting talked into getting this one for a tinker toy just reading this thread. http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-1000W-15Mosfets-E-Bike-Scooter-Brushless-Hub-Motor-Controller-/321376968747?pt=Other_Sports_Fan_Shop&var=&hash=item4ad38f602b But I have some brushless motors. You want to stick to either that Currie I posted, The Monster Scooter part that Ibz posted, or maybe find something on eBay like http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-60V-500-1000W-Motor-Brush-Controller-for-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Scooter-/171310829029?hash=item27e2ebcde5&vxp=mtr

I'd suggest to start where you want to end up. Why go to the trouble of getting it right if you don't want to leave it that way? Except it doesn't hurt to give that motor you have a chance, a lot of money to be saved if you don't have to swap out. Yeah, if you were to swap in a bigger motor that first controller upgrade would be put to the test. . . .

Still, better you think of the 1000w motor for a whole new build. . . .

 

[latecurtis]

thanks for the link to the right controller for my motor. the bamboo lipo I mentioned earlier -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-10Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-WITH-CHARGER-/380601910008?pt=US_Power_Tools_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item589da442f8
can be mounted in the back basket. as it has little weight. 22Ah lead ass batteries will remain in the triangle as it's weight actually helps to stabilize the bikes front end when hauling a lot of weight in the basket on the back. I often put 50 or 60 pounds of groceries, laundry or scrap metal from welding places. My only question is the hooking up of the LiFePo4s to the leadass batteries. is there anything I need to make Shure the LiFePo4s don't get too much voltage and catch on fire. they come with their own charger and can be charged separately. but They don't tell you if a power supply is built into the charger or I have to get one. also I need to know the voltage of the leadass batteries when fully charged so when I hook them up to the LiFePo4s there wont be a fire or damage done to the LiFePos. Is there a charger/balancer out there which will charge and balance the two leadass batteries and one or two LiFePo4s all wired in series. or do I have to get a special charger for the leadass batteries that will make Shure the voltage does not go too high. or will the chargers that come with the LiFePos charge all the batteries at once without a problem. Please let me know as this should be all I need to know to fully upgrade my bike.

 

[dogman dan]

I just deleted a long answer because I think I misunderstood.

What voltage are you planning to run? 24 or 36 or 48? I haven't heard of curries running well on 48v.

Since you get only about half the capacity out of your 22 ah lead, it will work to run the lead in series with a 10 ah lifepo4, and have 10 ah of 36v. When the lifepo4 bms shuts off at the end of discharge, it will break the circuit and shut down the whole bike. By then the lead is about used up too. If you have no bms, then you need to stop when a voltmeter reads about 35v.

Better than nada.

 

[Dauntless]

I just deleted a long answer because I think I misunderstood.

What voltage are you planning to run? 24 or 36 or 48? I haven't heard of curries running well on 48v.

It's not the clearest, but I'm getting that he wants to start out at higher amperage at 24v with a controller that'll run both 36v and 48v so if he doesn't feel as though trying 36v worked out he'd buy a 48v motor. I could make the point on that of a slow bike gets slower going uphill, so I haven't had enough to work with to prove it but I think my one steep 1,000ft. hill near me will require higher rpm's to start so it can keep going. I think he'll have to go 36v to succeed.

 

[latecurtis]

ok I sort of get it but will I need a 36 volt charger to charge the two leadass bricks along with the 10Ah LIPO4. and can the charger be set to automatically shut off at 35 volts so I don't have to monitor it with a voltmeter. and if I do upgrade to a 48 volt motor will I have to buy another charger for 48 volts. What if I want to upgrade to 60 volts then what do I do. I am looking to get a charger that can be set to the voltage I want. same thing for the controller. who knows I might want to go all the way up to say 72 volts someday so I am looking for the controller and charger to be extremely versatile.
and the last thing I want is for my system to shut down if the 10Ah LIPO4 s bms shuts down so the controller needs to be able to be variable from say 12v to 72v. the same thing with the charger. Please let me know as I am looking for future hub motors. I am getting power hungry. so the higher the voltage the better. 96 volts sounds real good. I would love to be able to go 40 or 50 mph someday.

 

[latecurtis]

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something like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-72V-500W-3000W-GM-Brushless-Gearless-DC-Hub-Motor-Bare-For-Ebike-Scooter-/151269267265?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233859d741 - US $215.00

so lets say 72 volts minimum on the battery charger and controller. this will most likely be the motor I will get if it's still around the same price when I am ready for it. should have no problem on the hills then.

 

[latecurtis]

I will be upgrading my currie ebike. It came with the stock 24 volt motor and controller and a 10Ah lead batt. pack. I upgraded to 22Ah lead batteries mounted in the triangle which by running an external wire from the empty case. 2- 12 volt max amp batteries in series. I want to change the controller, and eventually the motor. does anyone make a variable brushed controller say 24 to 72 volts at a reasonable price. lower the price the better. Also I will need a charger that is programmable from 24 to 72 volts as I am not adding any more lead batteries because of the weight I will be adding LIPO4s 10 Ah. my stock motor will only handle 36 volts so it will eventually be replaced with a motor which will operate from 24 up to 72 volts. and up to 3000 watts. I want the charger to be simple and accurate so I don't over volt the LIPO4s and can charge all the batteries together instead of separate. This charger must also be low priced as I don't have much money to spend at any one time.
I am also looking for an inexpensive twist throttle with the cheap Chinese cruise control. Can anybody give me some links on any of these parts. I have been looking and have not found what I am looking for.
I have however found several motors which will make my bike fly but I will need to upgrade the controller and battery charger first.

 

[dogman dan]

No. Not that I know of.

But brushed controlers are dirt cheap. So buy a few. Far as I know you can't get a motor to fit the currie bikes that runs 72v. I think you can for scooters, but those are the chain drive rigs.

Same with lead chargers, a 36v one is pretty cheap, in the 2 amps type.

Stop dorking around, if you want to haul ass, get a YES or similar golden motor 48v 1000w kit. Go fast for $250. Put that kit on 72v, and go 40 mph.

 

[latecurtis]

I want to put this motor on my currie ezip instead of the 24 volt motor I have now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-72V-500W-3000W-GM-Brushless-Gearless-DC-Hub-Motor-Bare-For-Ebike-Scooter-/151269267265?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233859d741

I will need a new controller which will go from 36 volts up to 72. I also need a charger which will charge lead and LIFEPO4s in series which can be set from 36 to 72 volts so I don't overcharge the LIPO4s.

Also I am looking for a cheap twist throttle with cruise control. Please somebody help me with the links. I don't want to have to buy a new controller and charger every time I add a new battery. That is ridiculous. I also don't want the hassle of charging the batteries separate, that's just plain crazy.

This is my plan.

step 1. get new controller 36 to 72 volt, and 1 LIFEPO4 10AH 12 volt battery. and new throttle with cruise control. Install everything.

step 2. get new 72 volt motor and install.

step 3. add another LIFEPO4 10 Ah battery for 48 volts.

step 4. repeat step 3. for 60 volts.

step 5. repeat again for 72 volts.

step 6. get a speedometer and Call it a day. That is all the upgrades I will need. except for a life insurance policy and better health coverage.

 

[wesnewell]

Don't get burned. That's not a 3000W motor. It's typical of a 500-1000W motor.

 

[dogman dan]

It won't fit your bike. 150mm droputs.

 

[Tench]

The description on the page says 150mm dropout for the rear motor yet the drawing shown as one of the pics has a 136mm drop out dimension.
I would be wary of any seller who has got some facts wrong, what else is wrong? basically you now cant rely an any of the info.

It looks like it could be a 3kw motor with a 9x7 wind and 35mm magnets, if you dangerously presume the 35sh spec of the magnet is its width, so it may be capable of 3kw on 72v40a? I would sooner pay a little more for HT35 though!

 

[Drunkskunk]

3kw motor and only 6kg? No. and they can't even get the sizing right. Avoid.

 

[chucho]

3kw motor and only 6kg? No. and they can't even get the sizing right. Avoid.

+ 1 :wink:

 

[Rodney64]

Don't like your chances having 3 24volt batteries together and working with out tripping the overload protection. I tried 2 Panasonic 36 volt tube batteries for 72 volt which worked for a 100 meters but as soon as the throttle was opened up the battery tripped.

 

[Dauntless]

Do you have a hub motor now? This gets more and more confusing.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, the battery plan is a fail too for sure.

There is a reason why so many of us risk a fire and run the RC batteries.

Let us know where you live in your profile Latecurtis. At least the continent. Maybe somebody real close to you has an old used motor you could grab up cheap, or maybe you could just go pick one up in LA from Yes.

I bet a common as dirt hubmtor that goes 27-30mph on 48v will make you happy. If you get one with a "36v" 20 amps controller, it will still run on 48v later, and can possibly use those cheaper batteries. A 30 or 40 amps controller needs a very strong battery.