ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION DELTA /WYE and SERIE/PAPALLEL stator

[methods]

How did I miss this thread !?!

Doc, I have been running my 10x6 9 cont. in a 26" wheel with 12S and a 50A limit @ 2,400W for several hundred miles on a 6 fet Infineon.
No problems, nothing is even getting warm.

I think you should up the current limit and do more tests

On another note:
Several weeks back I ordered a 9x7 front hub and a 9x7 rear hub from Amped Bikes
My plan was to rival the power of the 5305 with this pair unmodified
Now that everyone is doing this. . . I am going to have to "keep up with the Jones"

Nice work geeksters!

I recently read somewhere of a commercial controller that did this switching automatically
I did not see anyone mention it in this thread (or maybe I missed it)

-methods

 

[ZapPat]

My plan was to rival the power of the 5305 with this pair unmodified

Did you end up trying it yet? I wanted to try this later this summer to get ready for next winter's biking.

I recently read somewhere of a commercial controller that did this switching automatically
I did not see anyone mention it in this thread (or maybe I missed it)
-methods

I had been discussing this with Doc a few months ago actually. I actually thought the commutation timing for the switchover would be more of a problem than it seems to be after all. I thought to have found the perfect time for the transition, when the "floating" coil's voltage is equal in both delta and in wye which would avoid stress on the relays and other potentially destructive forces.

Another much different timing issue for the transition (and the one methods was refering to I believe) is at what point to switch over to get maximum benefits while avoiding problems. As we can see, Doc has blown a couple controllers from using delta mode at too low speeds under load - to be avoided. When going from wye to delta while accelerating it would be important to find the perfect transistion point. Too early may blow something and loose torque once in delta, do it too late and you will have also missed out on torque but this time during the end of the wye mode. Very important for drag racing to choose this timing just right!

I am definitely going to have optional outputs on my controller to control these relays automatically. I have a 9C motor on it's way here to have some fun playing with this idea. My slowly evolving controller will hit the road for tests soon enough, but it requires much patience being a one man band sometimes...

 

[rkosiorek]

<snip>

I am definitely going to have optional outputs on my controller to control these relays automatically. I have a 9C motor on it's way here to have some fun playing with this idea. My slowly evolving controller will hit the road for tests soon enough, but it requires much patience being a one man band sometimes...

now that is a good suggestion.

one of the reasons why the tapped WYE winding was used for the dual speed Crystalyte is that it avoided the huge difference in current when the modes were switched. it is also the reason why the steps between the low and high were not wider apart. i think that the largest variation was 408/4012 and 406/409.

rick

 

[John in CR]

With all the resident electronics expertise here can't we come up with a controller that does this without the contactors? ie take 6 phase wires (or whatever is needed) out of the motor and have the controller send the pulses along the appropriate wires for torque or speed mode switched via a low current switch.

John

 

[fechter]

Yes, you could use FETs for the switching, but the connections are floating, so driving the gates might require some kind of charge pump or tiny dc-dc converter. You would also be increasing the resistance losses quite a bit and the delta/wye FETs would need to dissipate as much heat as the controller FETs.

 

[methods]

My plan was to rival the power of the 5305 with this pair unmodified

Did you end up trying it yet? I wanted to try this later this summer to get ready for next winter's biking.

I dropped everything after my Cyclone kit blew up. :?
All the new equipment is gathering dust.

When we sort this 18 fet issue I am going to get back to work.

The #1 problem will be front wheel traction as I currently have traction issues without a rear hub.

DOC!!!
DID YOU HEAR THAT ?!?!?
THE PEANUT GALLERY JUST SAID THAT YOU NEED TO DO A 88V 100A RIP FOR US!

-methods

 

[Doctorbass]

My plan was to rival the power of the 5305 with this pair unmodified

Did you end up trying it yet? I wanted to try this later this summer to get ready for next winter's biking.

I dropped everything after my Cyclone kit blew up. :?
All the new equipment is gathering dust.

When we sort this 18 fet issue I am going to get back to work.

The #1 problem will be front wheel traction as I currently have traction issues without a rear hub.

DOC!!!
DID YOU HEAR THAT ?!?!?
THE PEANUT GALLERY JUST SAID THAT YOU NEED TO DO A 88V 100A RIP FOR US!

-methods

Hey Methods, usually i understand english but i'n not sure about this last sentense:

YOU NEED TO DO A 88V 100A RIP FOR US!

Do you mean that you wish to see my ebike axel to rip the dropout when using it at 88V 100A?

Doc

 

[methods]

Now I am not sure if you are pulling my leg or not.

A "RIP" is American slang for a "Pass" as in "A pass down the drag strip" or "made a pass"

"Wow, look at that ebike rip up the track"!
"Did you see that guy rip by on the ebike?!?"
"Dude, that guy is ripping it up on that bicycle!. Is that thing lead acid?" (lol)

So I am goading you to do a test run with 24S lipo and a 100A limit.

I think the case of the 9 continent could handle the heat buildup over that short of time but I dont know if those tiny wires could handle the current for that long.
50A is no problem with bursts
I have not tried 100A... I am sure it could end bad.

-methods

 

[wasp]

Now I am not sure if you are pulling my leg or not.

A "RIP" is American slang for a "Pass" as in "A pass down the drag strip" or "made a pass"

"Wow, look at that ebike rip up the track"!
"Did you see that guy rip by on the ebike?!?"
"Dude, that guy is ripping it up on that bicycle!. Is that thing lead acid?" (lol)

So I am goading you to do a test run with 24S lipo and a 100A limit.

I think the case of the 9 continent could handle the heat buildup over that short of time but I dont know if those tiny wires could handle the current for that long.
50A is no problem with bursts
I have not tried 100A... I am sure it could end bad.

-methods

do you think the ecrazyman 60v 45amp controller would be a good upgrade
or the big brother the 1500w 72v 45amp ?

 

[methods]

do you think the ecrazyman 60v 45amp controller would be a good upgrade
or the big brother the 1500w 72v 45amp ?

I dont want to steer this great thread off topic.
The quick answer is that I think all of the Infineon controllers suck with the stock mosfets
That said, even the smallest 350W 6fet $20 Infineon with $12 worth of 4110's and some solder on the shunt can put out 2500W all day long and outperform nearly anything.
So, buy any Infineon you want, just make sure you run good mosfets.

In the For Sale section I am selling 18 fet Infineons with soft start for $57.
Add $36 dollars worth of fets, some wire, and your time and you are good for 100V 150A for under $100
Cant beat that with a stick!

-methods

 

[bzhwindtalker]

hie everybody!
as I have to wait for my new belt pulley to be machined, my bike is not runing, and I'm in the game to test D/W on my kollmorgan.
the motor is rated 24v 400w, but the stock controler is 30A continuous, 50A brust with current limiter,
so the motor can peak at 1100w, I find that nice, even compared to RC stuff, with realy low kv (130).

I just opened motor
I firs suspected the motor to be wired DELTA, but each individual wire connects to each other,
must be a Y point somewhere under the epoxy.
need to remove that also to find the 'mysterious magical point'
I'm not already sure of what type of contactor/relay use, but I'll do with what I'll find
hopefully I'll see that tomorrow with my electric's teacher at school.

electrical ''gearing'' is the way to go I think

have fun

 

[karma]

never took the time to test the kollmogan.

delta on the crank should be nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx_2q8ZudIg

cheers

 

[fechter]

never took the time to test the kollmogan.

delta on the crank should be nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx_2q8ZudIg

cheers

I'm pretty sure a Kollmorgen is delta. I don't remember ever seeing a wye connection.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

ok I don't understand anything about my motor, even with the epoxy removed:


What I know

-18 poles
-4 individual copper wires in each phase
-no visible solder point
-each individual wire connects each other (so probably wye?)

What I don't know

-wired wye? delta?
-solder point somewhere?

grrr too bad nothing's never simple :?

 

[johnrobholmes]

With all the wires connected together it is Delta. The lack of WYE juncture is a dead ringer.

 

[rkosiorek]

I've lost count how many times this thread has been hijacked.

who should start a new thread? i was looking for new posts about the Delta/Wye transmission thingie. and tho it is interesting to know if a kolmorgen is Delta or Wye, it is disappointing to see this info instead of new exciting info on the Electronic Transmission version of the 9C motor. the BMC stuff should be in it's own thread and not corrupting and confusing this thread.

rick

 

[Doctorbass]

Please guys stay focused on the main subject :wink:

Who will be the next to post results about this great solution? 8)

Doc

 

[karma]

im working on it :wink:

 

[johnrobholmes]

I have some switches on the way to try on my bafang. It will be manual termination change, I was thinking of hooking up a spring and thumb lever setup.

 

[GGoodrum]

My new 6-wire AstroFlight 3210-12 turn is showing up tomorrow. I still have to get some relays, though. What kind of switches are you using, John?

-- Gary

 

[johnrobholmes]

Im gonna use three of these https://www.allelectronics.com/inde...92a403b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1";i:1;s:0:"";}
Each phase will have it's own switch so that there is redundancy and lower resistance. All four poles will be tied together in parallel on the switch. If it doesn't turn out to be feasible I can always just use one switch for all three phases. The biggest hurdle will probably be the stiffness of the switches.

 

[fechter]

That should work. Just make sure all 3 switches switch at the same time or you'll have a deadly short. It's good that they have a 'center off' position, so there's minimal chance of cross connection during switching.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Yep, that is why I chose them. I do not plan on "shifting" during power either. It will be Wye for most riding and all uphill grades, and Delta for the flats or downhill grades. I won't be banging from Y to D.

 

[GGoodrum]

The link is broken, can you fix it?

Thanks -- Gary

 

[johnrobholmes]

This forum doesn't like the format of the url. It is product STS-71 on allelectronics. com