Electrifiying a Road Bike ?

[zx6rj1]

I've put a motor on my MTB, wanting to stay legal in Australia, the only/best option is to use geared motor kit - at 200w.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10867&start=0

This will give me 30kph cruising speed with little pedalling. I have been very happy with it but could feel the drag of the wheels etc.

Now I am thinking to mount the motor to my roadbike. Without motor I can do 30kph quite easily already with a roadbike. So the thinking is by putting the motor there I would go even faster!

Is this a sound logic? I know the only way to know is to try it. Some challenges are:
- How to fit the throttle on a drop bar
- Maybe the drop bar needs to be converted to flatbar?
- Changes to brakes, gear lever, etc.
- may not be as comfy compared to MTB
- may not be as fun passing the lycra warriors

Any advise please?

 

[adrian_sm]

I have been thinking along very similar lines, I even ripped all the electronics off my bike to give me a better perspective.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11324

A few thoughts I had.

There are new laws proposed in Oz that will limited assist to 250W, and below 25 kph.
http://www.bv.com.au/bikes-&-riding/10607/
- This gives even more reason to base you eBike on a fast platform.

- How to fit the throttle on a drop bar

Find a thumb throttle would probably be the easiest option.

I was thinking if I went totally legal I would build on a flat bar commuter type bike. One of the guys at work suggested a few around the rigid steel 29er singlespeed concept. GT Peace, Jamis Exile, Kona Unit, Voodoo Wanga. Basic theory was large diameter, narrow profile wheels, for smoother ride, and low rolling resistance.

As for a motor something like a Bafang seems ideal. Cheap, light, suited to lower power applications, geared to give grunt on the hills, but may struggle on the top end without 48V.

One thing I noticed between my MTB with narrow road tyres without electronics, and when I put the hub motor back on was the better ride. I have a nice big fat Schwalbe Marathon Plus, which gives a smoother ride. But I guess if you are used to a road bikes ride, then it wouldn't be an issue.

I have zero experience with road bikes, so I would be really interested to hear others opinions on this too.

 

[vanilla ice]

Road ebike makes a lot more sense at 200w than higher, thats for sure. There are a range of road bikes from 15 pounds to over 30, so I'm sure theres something that would work. Maybe a cross frame. Those are built to take some abuse, and fit 32mm or larger tires.

 

[morph999]

you gotta get it up to 30 mph, that's really fun. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm on my bike, no one really pays attention to me. Some people are concerned about staying legal, I'm not. Cops just see me on a bicycle and they could care less so I don't see any reason not to get the motor that you want. As long as you aren't doing more than say 40 mph, I doubt anyone will even care.

 

[swbluto]

you gotta get it up to 30 mph, that's really fun. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm on my bike, no one really pays attention to me. Some people are concerned about staying legal, I'm not. Cops just see me on a bicycle and they could care less so I don't see any reason not to get the motor that you want. As long as you aren't doing more than say 40 mph, I doubt anyone will even care.

I'm getting the feeling people in Australia care more. It seems Australians complain much more often about their legal limit and much less knowingly exceed it than Americans with their 20 mph federal limit.

 

[Zoot Katz]

See Patriot's Peugeot - E-Speriment!!! build thread.
He's since switched to a Mongoose E-Snare!!!

Despite all that my next ebike is destined to be lighter and more aero than le Béte.
It's being planned around a lugged, butted, cro-mo, 1985 Norco Sasquatch MTB. (full rigid)
It has the long wheel base and geometry of a tourer, but with heavier tubing, a high BB and made for 26" wheels.
I rebuilt one with flat bars as an urban all-rounder and rode it for several years.
It doesn't handle like my road bikes and feels like a bit of a sled in comparisson but it would be solid enough for a conversion.
Running 1.25" slicks it rolled nice but I prefer the 1.4" Tom Slicks.

The parts have since dispersed to other bikes but the frame, fork and crank are candidates for my next ebike platform.
I'm still debating either a 9C or e-Zee rear hub motor. The bike will be running high pressure slicks and moustache bars set lower than the saddle.

Riding on the drops in the city is something I rarely do. Flat bars aren't comfortable.
The moustache bars have been a nice compromise on my Miyata one-thousand commuter.

Vanilla Ice's suggestion for a cyclo-cross frame makes a lot of sense if you're going to get a new bike.

 

[chet]

Small town America, city road grid. I'm the only E-Bike in town. I can cruse at 22 mph, and I do, mostly. At 20 mph they notice and comment on how fast I'm going. Then they notice I'm not pedaling. Then they ask about the motor. (More poorer people than well off are interested.) I work for the City Utility, so the police leave me alone. What happens when a mess of people are cruising, especially young crazy s? (oxymoron). I'm a graying 60 something.

 

[zx6rj1]

Thanks for all the suggestions. That Peugeot eBike build is awesome

After some more thinking and assessing the way I ride, it seems the e-roadbike idea needs to be put to the back burner for now, at least until next month. I ride quite "erratically" mounting kerbs, doing footpath etc. which may not be to friendly to skinny tyres. But I still want the speed.

Re: Laws in Australia, yes I want to keep legal as the enforcement is quite anal here. Even the 200watts ones in NSW were fined because they look like scooters. I can imagine a situation where I could be "car-doored" and be found at fault and ordered to pay hefty fines, should I use the 300w or 500w motors (which are available and damn tempting!)

 

[lesspedal]

zx
If you do a road bike i think you should stick with the system you have.
The problem is the aus law at 200w, a hub motor at 200w would not be worth having, thats my view anyway.
To see a beautiful road bike with elation, search this forum for , zilla , 22 sept 08.
Trev.

 

[Tiberius]

- How to fit the throttle on a drop bar

I did something similar - see my avatar or http://www.re-voltage.eu/redbike.html

The throttle was one of the more difficult bits. I've got a thumb throttle on the left hand side. One of the problems you will come across is that drop bars are slightly larger diameter tube than straight ones, so things won't just slide on. I made up a special mount to hold the throttle and I had to extend the ends of the bars an inch or so to make it all work. Even so, the throttle still isn't quite right; I need to move it forward a bit.

I may also fit a 2nd throttle so I can ride on the tops of the bars.

Nick

 

[zx6rj1]

Thanks !

That is the MOST AWESOME e-Roadbike I have ever seen

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6596&p=100054&hilit=+zilla#p100054

 

[vanilla ice]

If you do keep it legal, you can do it very lightweight to suit a road bike. I was thinking all rc.

 

[lesspedal]

Thanks !

That is the MOST AWESOME e-Roadbike I have ever seen

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6596&p=100054&hilit=+zilla#p100054

Shes a beauty alright, thought you would like it.

 

[zx6rj1]

Ok.. on July I fitted the electric motor to my road bike.

http://polygon-quatro.blogspot.com/2009/07/elation-200w-e-roadbike.html

It worked out great! Very light and quick. The biggest problem being....

PUNCTURES with capital P. :x

I commute 2x 6km daily and so far I had about 6 or 7 punctures within 3 months. So often that it's not funny! Out of these punctures all are due to small pieces of broken glass, and only one occassion of "real" nail puncture. To add to the injury, those punctures 90% happened when it's raining! It must be how glass sticks easier when they're wet.

So yesterday I put the kit back to my MTB.

 

[morph999]

Ok.. on July I fitted the electric motor to my road bike.

http://polygon-quatro.blogspot.com/2009/07/elation-200w-e-roadbike.html

It worked out great! Very light and quick. The biggest problem being....

PUNCTURES with capital P. :x

I commute 2x 6km daily and so far I had about 6 or 7 punctures within 3 months. So often that it's not funny! Out of these punctures all are due to small pieces of broken glass, and only one occassion of "real" nail puncture. To add to the injury, those punctures 90% happened when it's raining! It must be how glass sticks easier when they're wet.

So yesterday I put the kit back to my MTB.

Get a pair of Armadillo Crossroads. I think they are about $100 for a pair. You'll never have a flat again after getting those tires.

 

[Kurt]

I would love to put a CA on the so called legal 200w ebike kits. Wouldn't surprise me if they show an average of more than 500w. Most are 24v or 36v systems. If they were a 200w system they would have a 8.3 amp controller for the 24volt and a 5.5amp controller for the 36v systems. I think you will find most have at least a 15amp to 25amp controller.

I wil give you an example my first ebike was a izip 24v geared 200w brushed electric bike.It came complete with all the stickers that stated it was a legal 200w system on it. One look at the sticker on the controller you find printed as 25amp brushed motor controller. Now 24v x 25amp = 600w. CA confirmed this with peaks of 750w at times and always a good 500 to 600w.

I once did a test and restricted my bike to 200w using my CA throttle override setting. The bike would hardly move at 5amps.

I have posted this before but speed is what will get you in trouble in Australia on a ebike. You could be pumping 10,000w into your motor but if it was geared down to do 20kmh you wont attract attention. My own 5304 pulls 2000w at times 10 times the legal limit but because I run it at 36v so max speed of 40kmh it doesn't attract attention and I am confident I wont have any trouble.

My final work for the people who want to run a legal 200w kit in Australia is there isn't any available! All the kits sold are over 200w by a large amount.There are no technically 200w systems that i have seen. So what are you worried about just keep the speed down and supply the wattage to give you the tourqe you need.My view is most motors need 750w min to give you this torque or 20amp controller at 36v

Kurt.

 

[Lessss]

[youtube]G7wid_8k_7k[/youtube]

 

[amberwolf]

Get a pair of Armadillo Crossroads. I think they are about $100 for a pair. You'll never have a flat again after getting those tires.

And if you don't have cash for those, you can use the Slime brand protective strips between your tubes and the inside of the tire tread. Works for me here in Phoenix, where the bike paths are often the garbage lanes of the street, where everything from all the construction, car wrecks, and people that throw their garbage and bottles and stuff out of their vehicles (or off the sidewalks) goes.

As for the glass punctures being worse in rain, my bet is that you unconsciously and automatically avoid glass shards in dry conditions because you can see them. In rain, they're often invisible, so you can't avoid them unless they're large enough to stand out.

 

[zx6rj1]

Thanks. Unfortunately, my bike cost $200, so putting $100 tyre is a bit exxie . Not sure what they would cost in Australia too! Almost all things are more expensive here (except my $200 kmart roadbike that is :lol

I did my first commute with MTB today, and I really like the "recklessness" that goes with it. Just hit potholes, kerbs, etc. no problems

I have to feel MTB is better for commuting.

 

[lesspedal]

Kurt,
I have 300w elation with ca , can pull about 600w max, however i believe the 200w rating is continuous power, not max, i'm not an expert on this but Alan Dow from elation is, unfortunately Alan gave up on this forum after being constantly harrassed by solar bbq, now the subject of another thread {brett white all lies} hence Alan took his expertise on this matter with him.

I agree, keep your speed reasonable and look like your pedaling, to keep the law away, for the time being anyway, but i feel that the time will come with this stupid 200w law, there will be a clamp down, so enjoy while we can.
Trev.

 

[heathyoung]

Keep in mind also that power in > power out.

The cyclone (headline) 180W motor draws 4A @ 24V when unloaded at full throttle - so you would expect that you would need to set the current limit to 300W, not 200W. Power is to be measured at the back wheel, not at the motor (see rta specs, I posted a link to the pdf ages ago).

 

[lesspedal]

Thanks Heath, i will see if i can chase up that rta nsw link