[EU]Looking for a reliable conversion kit

[Akologi]

Soo yeah I am looking to make a custom built ebike for myself, i have a budget of roughly 2000-3000€.

I need a very reliable conversion kit, i dont know if that exists but I'd prefer one from the known reliable brands(if there are any for Bosch motors or any of those lol), especially the battery(i dont want it to blow up at some point).

I'd be driving ALOT with that E-bike, like 1000-2000 kilometers per month, hence i need a reliable one, and also a persistent brand(where i can get a new motor/battery if something is broken). The Motor itself should be 250 Watts 60nm or higher, The battery should have a range like 150km+ optionally i can just get 2 weaker batteries. Also (allthough partially illegal) i'd like to have a thumb throttle and a mode where i dont have to pedal at all. Oh yeah and speed limit is of course 25 km/h

Do you guys have any recommendations for such a conversion kit?

 

[Matze_Senpaii]

you'll have to choose between mid moror and hub motor first;
for mid drive currently most reliable is Bafang bbshd, you can buy spare parts if needed and there is many chainring options
for hub motor, there's many different variations, from brands like grin and bafang to no name chinese kits

 

[Az.]

Bafang bbshd,

Is most likely illegal in Austria.

 

[Az.]

I'd be driving ALOT with that E-bike, like 1000-2000 kilometers per month,

Are you planning to use bike for commuting only, or also for off-road fun?

 

[Akologi]

Are you planning to use bike for commuting only, or also for off-road fun?

For work as food delivery courier. Ill usually drive up to 90-100km per workday, during every weather condition mostly its on the streets, but there are some steep hills in the city aswell(up to 20°) also sometimes offroad.

 

[Akologi]

Is most likely illegal in Austria.

Yeah thats mostly the issue im trying to avoid, the thumb throttle would be the least illegal thing i am willing to risk for comfort(no pedaling). Allthough cops barely check on you as long as you dont drive faster than 25km/h the laws are ridiculous and limiting purchasing options for food couriers alot, hence i want to build my own

 

[Az.]

Yeah thats mostly the issue im trying to avoid, the thumb throttle would be the least illegal thing i am willing to risk for comfort(no pedaling). Allthough cops barely check on you as long as you dont drive faster than 25km/h the laws are ridiculous and limiting purchasing options for food couriers alot, hence i want to build my own

In UK you can have legal full throttle on an EAPC. It would require taking e-bike to one of approved testing stations to certify compliance. Some companies provide such service and you can buy ready made e-bike with full throttle and adequate certificate at hefty price. Eventually you can take bike to station yourself and pay £55. I am guessing there is a similar procedure in Austria, but it is just my guess as I am not familiar with Austrian law. Something for you to explore. Single Vehicle Approval it is called in UK.

As for kit I would suggest geared 250W rear hub motor with 500W or 750W KT controller. This way you will have very powerful and legal bike. Battery at least 20Ah with branded cells. Have a look at PSW Power. They should have all what you need at very good price and they have warehouse in Germany.

 

[99t4]

Some ideas:

Hubmotor might be the best solution for your reliability requirements. There would be no single-point failure in the conversion that would stop you cold. If the assist system fails, at least you can pedal. If the pedal system fails, you can still motor electrically. In my experience in a rainy maritime environment the hubmotors have proved reliable.

Your 2000-3000€ budget is pretty healthy. For minimal downtime what about two identical bikes (possibly sharing a couple of batteries between them)? If one fails, swap to the other and repair the first when time allows. Realize savings on one set of common spare parts (controller, throttle, display) that can be used on both.

Keep in mind at your km levels you will need a stepped up maintenance schedule. Tires, brakes, chain, bearings, etc.

 

[rudivb]

Yeah thats mostly the issue im trying to avoid, the thumb throttle would be the least illegal thing i am willing to risk for comfort(no pedaling). Allthough cops barely check on you as long as you dont drive faster than 25km/h the laws are ridiculous and limiting purchasing options for food couriers alot, hence i want to build my own

Is it really being enforced? Been running the BBSHD at full power for 3.5 years now in France, I'm also a delivery driver, never had issues with the police, but when I see police I always slow down a bit.

 

[rudivb]

Keep in mind at your km levels you will need a stepped up maintenance schedule. Tires, brakes, chain, bearings, etc.

That would be mostly brake pads lol, tires last me 20000km, discs 5000+, chain 5000+, bearings I haven't even looked at.

Hub with regen would be a good choice to reduce brake pads maintenance.

 

[Akologi]

Is it really being enforced? Been running the BBSHD at full power for 3.5 years now in France, I'm also a delivery driver, never had issues with the police, but when I see police I always slow down a bit.

No as of right now mostly not(except when you are speeding over 25km/h then they are pretty strict since some maniacs have been speeding with 100km/h through the city with tuned scooters and stuff lol), but who knows what the future brings, elections are this autumn and things look like far right party might have some ground and we have been under a center right tule the past 8 years or so... and they are not the parties that are too bicycle friendly. I have seen in the past few years already they slowly increase controls (stuff like putting cops dressed in civil at busy cyclist crossings and fining people crossing red lights, and recently even alcohol checks for cyclists on weekends) thus i believe its really just a matter of time when they might start checking on wattage and the stuff... Soo yeah right now they most likely won't do shit about a 500w or higher motor or a thumb throttle as long as you drive responsibly, but i don't want to end up with a bike i cant use and possibly can't sell either If they implement stricter laws.

 

[Akologi]

That would be mostly brake pads lol, tires last me 20000km, discs 5000+, chain 5000+, bearings I haven't even looked at.

Hub with regen would be a good choice to reduce brake pads maintenance.

Hub with regen you mean like recuperation? doesn't that require a special battery or something?

And yeah i estimated i'd have to check my bike every 3 months or so.

 

[rudivb]

No as of right now mostly not, but who knows what the future brings, elections are this autumn and things look like far right party might have some ground and we have been under a center right tule the past 8 years or so... and they are not the parties that are too bicycle friendly. I have seen in the past few years already they slowly increase controls (stuff like putting cops dressed in civil at busy cyclist crossings and fining people crossing red lights, and recently even alcohol checks for cyclists on weekends) thus i believe its really just a matter of time when they might start checking on wattage and the stuff... Soo yeah right now they most likely won't do shit about a 500w or higher motor or a thumb throttle as long as you drive responsibly, but i don't want to end up with a bike i cant use and possibly can't sell either If they implement stricter laws.

Yeah I understand, what I do is I have a custom firmware and my ebike automatically starts up in a "legal" mode, so it has limited power, limited top speed and the throttle acts as a walk assist mode and only by a certain button combo it starts up in full power mode, I also have a 250w sticker on the motor. Will this all work when I get caught? I don't know... and by no means am I advising or promoting to do something illegal, but it's an option .

I think the EU 250W law 25kmph top speed sucks, freedom country has definitely got some better laws in regards of ebikes.

 

[Akologi]

Some ideas:

Hubmotor might be the best solution for your reliability requirements. There would be no single-point failure in the conversion that would stop you cold. If the assist system fails, at least you can pedal. If the pedal system fails, you can still motor electrically. In my experience in a rainy maritime environment the hubmotors have proved reliable.

Your 2000-3000€ budget is pretty healthy. For minimal downtime what about two identical bikes (possibly sharing a couple of batteries between them)? If one fails, swap to the other and repair the first when time allows. Realize savings on one set of common spare parts (controller, throttle, display) that can be used on both.

Keep in mind at your km levels you will need a stepped up maintenance schedule. Tires, brakes, chain, bearings, etc.

That sounds like a good suggestion. And I'm pretty okay with 1 bicycle, because my company also has their own bikes, which are by far not as good as driving with your own, but for a few weeks its definately doable.

Also yeah for the bike itself I'd actually like to have a stepthrough bike (possibly even a fatbike? or mountainbike?) because the big tires are actually more shockabsorbing, and anything that's good for my back and the food i transport I I'd gladly consider aswell. Stuff like Seat suspension, front suspension(maybe even rear suspension? and maybe a rear carriage where i can put the Foodbag)

 

[rudivb]

Hub with regen you mean like recuperation? doesn't that require a special battery or something?

And yeah i estimated i'd have to check my bike every 3 months or so.

Regen as in regenerative braking, so you kinda "brake" with the motor and it puts some power back in the battery. I don't have personal experience with it, but I believe it's more "resistance" than actual braking, but the most beneficial thing about it seems to be reduced brake pads wear, because let me tell you as a delivery driver, my bike eats brake pads for breakfast.

 

[Akologi]

Yeah I understand, what I do is I have a custom firmware and my ebike automatically starts up in a "legal" mode, so it has limited power, limited top speed and the throttle acts as a walk assist mode and only by a certain button combo it starts up in full power mode, I also have a 250w sticker on the motor. Will this all work when I get caught? I don't know... and by no means am I advising or promoting to do something illegal, but it's an option .

I think the EU 250W law 25kmph top speed sucks, freedom country has definitely got some better laws in regards of ebikes.

I mean i kind of do understand the 25km/h limitation in the sense that faster speeds piss off alot of normal cyclists and people drive too reckless especially on busy cyclist lanes... But other than that, the watt limitation is just dumb. What they could do is maybe Allow faster speeds like maybe 35km/h on roads(something of a bike class between normal ebikes and s-pedelecs) but 25km/h on Cyclist lanes or something. That's at least how i could imagine it.

 

[Akologi]

Regen as in regenerative braking, so you kinda "brake" with the motor and it puts some power back in the battery. I don't have personal experience with it, but I believe it's more "resistance" than actual braking, but the most beneficial thing about it seems to be reduced brake pads wear, because let me tell you as a delivery driver, my bike eats brake pads for breakfast.

thats interesting. not sure if there is a conversion kit for something like that, nor if that works with regular batteries

 

[Az.]

There is no such thing as legal mode for BBSHD. It is illegal as 1kW rated motor.

 

[rudivb]

Also yeah for the bike itself I'd actually like to have a stepthrough bike (possibly even a fatbike? or mountainbike?) because the big tires are actually more shockabsorbing, and anything that's good for my back and the food i transport I I'd gladly consider aswell. Stuff like Seat suspension, front suspension(maybe even rear suspension? and maybe a rear carriage where i can put the Foodbag)

Personally I would keep it as simple as possible. Rigid frame no suspension, but wider tires and maybe a suspension seatpost. Steel frame might be a good option. I like to just use a backpack, because the best suspension is you and your legs and when you carry drinks and stuff that's the better option.

My old delivery bike



My new delivery bike Surly steel frame

 

[E-HP]

For reliability, a direct drive hub has not moving parts except the bearings, so at the mileage you'll be putting on, you might check them once a year or maybe never until you have some problems/noises. A geared hub would be the next most reliable, but over time gear or clutch replacement may be in your future. Mid drives take the most toll on your drivetrain. Talking to my neighbor, who has a 250W mid drive, he changes chains fairly frequently (once a year) and cassettes with about half that frequency (you'll need to carry a spare master link so you aren't stranded by a chain break.

The direct drive needs more power than you'll be using, so that's not an option. The mid drive will involve a lot of shifting since you have a lot of stop and go as a delivery driver, so not the best option, unless those hills are ones so steep you can't pedal up without assistance. I'm guessing you'll end up with a geared hub. That will do OK on hills as long as they aren't long sustained climbs, and the gearing will help provide more torque when running low power.

 

[Akologi]

In UK you can have legal full throttle on an EAPC. It would require taking e-bike to one of approved testing stations to certify compliance. Some companies provide such service and you can buy ready made e-bike with full throttle and adequate certificate at hefty price. Eventually you can take bike to station yourself and pay £55. I am guessing there is a similar procedure in Austria, but it is just my guess as I am not familiar with Austrian law. Something for you to explore. Single Vehicle Approval it is called in UK.

As for kit I would suggest geared 250W rear hub motor with 500W or 750W KT controller. This way you will have very powerful and legal bike. Battery at least 20Ah with branded cells. Have a look at PSW Power. They should have all what you need at very good price and they have warehouse in Germany.

Interesting I made notes of that, I'll definately check those out. And regarding certificate, you cant do that in austria unfortunatley. Thumb throttles are entirely illegal on ebikes unless they only help accelerating to max 6 km/h. So if you get stopped by a cop and he finds the Throttle only mode, he can fine you(allthough verrry unlikely this happens, like he'd have to have a grudge against you, or you were speeding way beyond 25km/h). There are no certificates for ebikes or the sorts here in austria, at least none that help you at police controls. There are just dumb strict laws, and the police itself can decide based on their own judgement to frock you over or not if your bike does not conform ot the law(but again normal cyclists pretty much enver get controlled, but food couriers are definatley gonna get checked.

 

[Akologi]

Personally I would keep it as simple as possible. Rigid frame no suspension, but wider tires and maybe a suspension seatpost. Steel frame might be a good option. I like to just use a backpack, because the best suspension is you and your legs and when you carry drinks and stuff that's the better option.

My old delivery bike
View attachment 357289


My new delivery bike Surly steel frame
View attachment 357288

Issue is, if you do this 8hours or more per day, and the roads in my country are pretty bumpy in some areas, it'll frock your back up after some time. Thats the reason why as of right now I'm doing deliveries with an e-moped limited to 25 km/h (its currently in a legal greyzone and actually counts as bicycle, its beeing widely used, but they are debating on banning these from bike lanes sooner or later) and well Maintenance of that is also much more costly than with an actual e-bike. I bought it last winter out of desperation to escape the backpain i already developed from the Ebikes my company offers. Hence I want good suspension + a carriage at the back where i can put the Foodbag on

 

[Akologi]

For reliability, a direct drive hub has not moving parts except the bearings, so at the mileage you'll be putting on, you might check them once a year or maybe never until you have some problems/noises. A geared hub would be the next most reliable, but over time gear or clutch replacement may be in your future. Mid drives take the most toll on your drivetrain. Talking to my neighbor, who has a 250W mid drive, he changes chains fairly frequently (once a year) and cassettes with about half that frequency (you'll need to carry a spare master link so you aren't stranded by a chain break.

The direct drive needs more power than you'll be using, so that's not an option. The mid drive will involve a lot of shifting since you have a lot of stop and go as a delivery driver, so not the best option, unless those hills are ones so steep you can't pedal up without assistance. I'm guessing you'll end up with a geared hub. That will do OK on hills as long as they aren't long sustained climbs, and the gearing will help provide more torque when running low power.

what do you mean with direct drive? does it require more watts?

 

[Az.]

Interesting I made notes of that,

It is very rare for cyclists to go through Single Vehicle Approval procedure in UK as it is not well known and police usually doesn't bother cyclists. Unfortunately delivery riders are very vulnerable and very often targeted by police for few reasons. One of the reasons is ignorance of the law. It is very easy to notice which bikes are legal and which are not simply by looking at them. Dinner plate motors or BBSHD are easily recognizable and no number of stickers can change that.

You have a very healthy budget. You can get two or even four very powerful and legal bikes for amount of money you have.

 

[Gruesome]

I mean i kind of do understand the 25km/h limitation in the sense that faster speeds piss off alot of normal cyclists and people drive too reckless especially on busy cyclist lanes... But other than that, the watt limitation is just dumb. What they could do is maybe Allow faster speeds like maybe 35km/h on roads(something of a bike class between normal ebikes and s-pedelecs) but 25km/h on Cyclist lanes or something. That's at least how i could imagine it.

I think what you want is an 'e-Moped'. It sounds like the right class of vehicle for your requirements, especially since you want to use it to support your livelihood. Registration and insurance seem to be less than $250 annually in Austria, and the drivers license requirements can't be too difficult to pass. This seems the better option to me, compared to the alternative of riding uninsured every day and for several thousand km per year.
Edit: found this article (in German) that explains the situation in Austria.