Excelsior/Strong GTS Cromotor Build

[LSBW]

Thx.
No epoxy here. Whole point of getting steel frame and his TAs was to weld them to the frame.
Frame is wide enough to accept 6-7 speed cassette, but not Cromotor. Sorry.
I don't think I'll pedal this in any meaningful way.
However, in case of breakdown, I'll be able to go few kms.
I used ACS Crossfire 22T x 3/32 freewheel.

Luckily, ACS has their own freewheel removal tool, with 16 mm ID. Perfect for Cromotor's axle.

 

[davec]

invest in a fire extenguisher

 

[pucksterpete]

invest in a fire extenguisher

You have 1 for sale? :lol:

 

[pucksterpete]

Staying with a 26", just laced the wheel, came out good, used small washers with the nipples (tnx Hjns), now will take it over to bike shop to get trued.

 

[jpgey]

Hello Pete, perhaps we could have a race together near Champs-Élysée with our Cromoted bike ?

Anyway, please build your bike carefully with a strong fork, huge brake rotor and a secure battery box. Cromotor is powerfull.
I you need some help don't hesitate to send me a PM !

 

[pchen92]

T'habites à Paris jpgey ?

 

[pucksterpete]

Anyone know what size amp fuse would be recommended in line with a pre-charge circuit with 100V and a 24 fet 4110, 36-75V Infineon Controller?

Thanks

 

[hjns]

I would size the fuse to the maximum current that you expect to draw. With a 24 FET 4110, you can draw a lot of current, easily more than 100A. It then depends on how you program the controller for maximum current, how large the blocktime is to allow higher currents than that and then how fast the controller jumps in to limit current, and it depends on how you may limit current via the CA.

If you are only going to do accelerations on flat tarmac on a mountainbike, you will probably find that at 100V and 100A, you will do more wheelies than you like. If you are into long hills, 100A will get you up them pretty fast, although you would probably burn your motor without any temperature limits.

So start with 100A fuses. If you need more than that, make sure you make some nice vids. Not many around burning 10kW.

 

[pucksterpete]

reply from Cellman

Hi Pete,

There is no point putting a fuse in line with the pre-charge. 100A or maybe a little more, rated for 100Vdc on the main supply line would be appropriate. Such fuses are not easy to come by.

The controller is not supposed to be used at 100V, should be used at approx 75V nominal, max 90V. Using it at higher voltage risks damaging the mosfets from over voltage.

Thanks
Paul

 

[jpgey]

T'habites à Paris jpgey ?

Vers Asnieres

 

[pucksterpete]

Well its time for an update. Since I got the frame back in early February, I have been collecting the other parts since then. Here is where I am at so far, no rhyme or reason:

















































Harness's have been provided by Icecube, he has done a very good job and his tech support is thumbs up!!!

Problems: 900W BMS Charger stop working, 12V 30A powersupply from HK popped, Cellman 24fet4110 Blew (wrong phase combo under load).

Problems Solved, purchased Mastech PSU, bulk charging 20S in 1hr 1/2(a dream), purchased iCharger and Dell 12V 57A PSU, Lyen 24fet4110

Will run 20S at first, currently have 30 4s 5000mAh hard case packs, original plan was 24S.

Current problems, 3 speed switch setting, see other post http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49089

Does it matter whether the CA is set to High or Low on the Rage setting?

I did change it back to Low Range and saw the RShunt Value was at 6.67, on High its at 0.667, are these the same values, but just on different Range modes?

Ran her yesterday on 66V 50A battery & 100A Phase, Not too shabby, you can feel the difference in torque compared to 20S 40A using MXUS motor on other bike. More later

 

[whereswally606]

Glad you went with the bc168, do you still need a power supply?

 

[pucksterpete]

Glad you went with the bc168, do you still need a power supply?

I actually will be using the bc168 once a month and the mastech and icharger regularly. As far as another psu right now, don't need one, thanks for the offer though. You still selling them like 'hot cakes'?

 

[pucksterpete]

I'm still having trouble with the 3 speed switch working correctly. Here is what have done so far:

I tried the button mode and have the ground from the switch going to the ground of the controller, Speed 1 of switch going to X1 of controller & Speed 2 of switch going to X2 of controller. Both speed 1 & speed 2 did work with different %'s, but speed 3 was set differently but did the same that speed 2 was set at.

I got this email from Paul (cellman) regarding the switch, not sure if its going to work with what wires I have coming from the controller, but I can't understand why? This should be easy to fix, something is missing!!!!

I did set it up like the pics shown below.

Hi Pete,
I gave you the connections, attached again. The 3 speed works as follows:

Speed 1 – link X1 to GND

Speed 2 – open circuit

Speed 3 – link X2 to GND.

 

[mushymelon]

I'm still having trouble with the 3 speed switch working correctly. Here is what have done so far:

I tried the button mode and have the ground from the switch going to the ground of the controller, Speed 1 of switch going to X1 of controller & Speed 2 of switch going to X2 of controller. Both speed 1 & speed 2 did work with different %'s, but speed 3 was set differently but did the same that speed 2 was set at.

I got this email from Paul (cellman) regarding the switch, not sure if its going to work with what wires I have coming from the controller, but I can't understand why? This should be easy to fix, something is missing!!!!

I did set it up like the pics shown below.

Hi Pete,
I gave you the connections, attached again. The 3 speed works as follows:

Speed 1 – link X1 to GND

Speed 2 – open circuit

Speed 3 – link X2 to GND.

Can you take a screenshot of the program settings you currently have

Mushy

 

[pucksterpete]

Here ya go Mushy



I am running 20S 15Ah right now, so my LVC value in the prgm is calculated with Lyen's formula. For the 3 speed mode field, button mode works for me, switch mode doesn't.

She's a blast to ride with the Cromotor!!!

Pete

 

[Tommy L]

Glad you went with the bc168, do you still need a power supply?

I actually will be using the bc168 once a month and the mastech and icharger regularly. As far as another psu right now, don't need one, thanks for the offer though. You still selling them like 'hot cakes'?

I`m always looking for charging options. How do you like the BC168 ?

Tommy L sends....

 

[pucksterpete]

Glad you went with the bc168, do you still need a power supply?

I actually will be using the bc168 once a month and the mastech and icharger regularly. As far as another psu right now, don't need one, thanks for the offer though. You still selling them like 'hot cakes'?

I`m always looking for charging options. How do you like the BC168 ?

Tommy L sends....

Hey Tommy,

She works good at 8amp max, she does get the cells right on to 4.2 a cell, faster than the icharger did. But, I did all my initial cycle on a Icharger 306B. and now since my cells are pretty much right on with eachother, I am using my Mastech for bulk charging and that takes only an hour. I figure once a month or if some cells get out of balance sooner I will use the bc168. Hope that helps.

Pete

 

[mushymelon]

Here ya go Mushy



I am running 20S 15Ah right now, so my LVC value in the prgm is calculated with Lyen's formula. For the 3 speed mode field, button mode works for me, switch mode doesn't.

She's a blast to ride with the Cromotor!!!

Pete

Looks like the 24 Fet uses a different program

Mines set to switch mode and works normally. Sorry cant help you here.

 

[pucksterpete]

Some updated photos, this thing is a blast to ride, 46mph @ only 84v

 

[pucksterpete]

Another 24fet up in smoke!!!

Been running 20S right around 83V, CA set to 50A, Controller set to 100A Phase and 70A Rated, modest settings, but been running fine, setting provided by Lyen

Last few days went up to 24S (98.4V) same settings, everything running fine.


Today, changed CA to 60A and controller got lowered to 60A Rated, Phase still the same at 100A,

With speed setting at 99%, started to accelerate gradually and about 3/4 throttle the motor shuttered violently. CA was still on, NO throttle response, got her home checked connections, checked halls on motor using ebike tester that cellman sells, all was good. Opened up the controller and Déjà vu all over again.









So what happened? 70A to 60A setting on the controller? Got me....

Either will send off to Jpegy here in France or back to Lyen, pm's have been sent.

 

[pucksterpete]

I guess running a cromotor @ 20S with one of these is okay

12Fet


She's been running fine for the last 3 days, barley getting warm, in fact the 12fet was getting much hotter when it was on the other bike running 20S and a MXSUS motor, go figure.

 

[Tommy L]

--- Disclaimer ---

As your questions show that you indeed have no experience with Lipo, I would actually recommend NOT using them!
A 10S lipo pack can be dangerous and create a fire if treated wrongly!

--- End disclaimer ---




I have 10S 1P 4.5Ah 37V nominal 42V HOC bricks. This means that every brick has been built up from 10 individual cells, and these have been put in series. Every cell has a capacity of 4.5Ah (4500mAh). Therefore, this 10S pack has a capacity of 4.5Ah as well. There are two big main wires, and there are 11 balancing wires.

I then put three of these in parallel. I have paralleled them at both main wires and balancing wires. One big mesh of wires. This creates a 10S 3P pack, with a capacity of 13.5Ah. All individual cells are balanced with their counterparts via the balancing wires. So cell 1 of pack 1 is paralleled with cell 1 of pack 2 and cell 1 of pack 3. And so forth.

Then those paralleled 3 were put in series with another pack of paralleled 3. In series using only the main big wires. That makes for 20S 3P 13.5Ah.

For charging, I break down the packs into a 10S 6P 27Ah pack. I started with balance-charging every day, and voltage checking before and after every charge. After more than a year observing how the pack behaves, I can afford to balance charge only once a month. However, you need to know your packs very well before you do that.

Very nicely written Henk!
I've always wondered about "How to tie the balance wires together".
I've used the Headway cells, and one nice thing about that is that it is easy to build Series/Parallel packs with balance tap.
Now I'm using A123 that were pre-built into 4s4p packs and I string them together in Series. But if I want to add parallel, then I can also
tie the balance connectors together.

Your explanation is very clear! Thank you for this post Henk!

Tommy L sends.......

 

[Tommy L]

Hey Tommy,

She works good at 8amp max, she does get the cells right on to 4.2 a cell, faster than the icharger did. But, I did all my initial cycle on a Icharger 306B. and now since my cells are pretty much right on with eachother, I am using my Mastech for bulk charging and that takes only an hour. I figure once a month or if some cells get out of balance sooner I will use the bc168. Hope that helps.

Pete

Hey Pete!

I bought 3 BC168's, one is for my friend But to have 2 is still good!
I'm using the HP Server 600pb for power supplies 575w @ 12.44v

Tommy L sends.....

 

[hjns]

I guess running a cromotor @ 20S with one of these is okay

12Fet


She's been running fine for the last 3 days, barley getting warm, in fact the 12fet was getting much hotter when it was on the other bike running 20S and a MXSUS motor, go figure.

It is, but only if you keep amps low. If you start pulling more than 40A at 20S, you are pushing the limits of a 12FET 4110 controller. If you regularly pull higher amps, consider an 18FET or 24FET controller.