Fat bike or mtn bike for Winter commute (Bafang BBS02)

[webmonkey8]

Got fat pockets? :wink:

I definitely don't have fat pockets! But I am willing to buy the best I can afford if it means I'll be happy with my bike for a long long time without the itch to upgrade right away and all the time.

 

[chas58]

It really depends on your commute (yeah, I swap bikes based on tire size and snow conditions)
In my case, I like skinny tires and studs. Skinny tires cut through the snow and crud and get down to where the traction is. Studs are the only option if there is any chance of ice under the snow. Fat tires are great if you have a very bumpy ride and want to float over the bumps. I don’t want to float over snow and slush, I want to cut through it.

A lot of commuter snow tires are pretty skinny because of this. But if you have a lot of rutted ice, fat tires and low pressure are helpful.

The big problem is that it is pretty easy to crash on a two wheeler, so keeping speeds down is important. I have RWD, but I would think having a powered front tire would make it easier for the front tire to wash out in a commuting environment (which is a lot different from winter mountain biking).

Unless you have a hilly commute, I would lean towards a hub motor for winter.

 

[montyp]

Good points chas58 -

I do prefer the front hub though - I like the weight distributed more evenly. My battery is in the rear. So when I had both the battery and motor in the rear the front wheel didn't have much weight on it and it seemed to affect the performance of the studs.

Also I have found that the front motors are easier on the wheel. They are center mounted on the axle so the tension on the spokes is more evenly distributed. Riding in the dark with tons of potholes and ruts make for a lot of damage to the wheels.

Two wheel drive (motor in the front, pedal power on the back) is fun too - once the snowbanks ice up you can ride over them by popping up the front wheel over the snowbank and then shifting your weight forward while pedaling and motoring. basically like this - http://hansrey.com/how-to-ride-over-an-obstacle-on-a-mountain-bike/ but on your way to work, while everyone else is staring at taillights and basically rotting

 

[Ade]

[youtube]4QTWsWpv3Fw[/youtube]

 

[macribs]

Hard to see but the fatbike is actually following some tracks laid beforehand and the mtb is peddaling pure powder.
The way the mtb got stuck is much the same experience I had last year on a fatbike. The tires would not float and I could not get any speed, if powder got to deep I got nowhere in fact. Seems I should have played around even more with the air pressure so I will have to try it again this winter to give a conclusive verdict about fatbikes for fat asses. My initial feel last winter was that for heavy riders fat bikes do not work on powder snow. But riding a laid path or track works fine even if the track is not hard packed.

 

[Ade]

Hard to see but the fatbike is actually following some tracks laid beforehand and the mtb is peddaling pure powder.
The way the mtb got stuck is much the same experience I had last year on a fatbike. The tires would not float and I could not get any speed, if powder got to deep I got nowhere in fact. Seems I should have played around even more with the air pressure so I will have to try it again this winter to give a conclusive verdict about fatbikes for fat asses. My initial feel last winter was that for heavy riders fat bikes do not work on powder snow. But riding a laid path or track works fine even if the track is not hard packed.

Get the biggest tires your frame will support (bud+lou seems to be a common favourite for snow) and try 6 psi or even lower. Even 1 psi difference is noticeable at these pressures. Get an accurate pressure gauge - the ones that max at 15 psi can be had on Amazon for little and they really are much more accurate than the standard pump gauges meant for 30 to 90 psi tires where 1 psi makes no difference at all.

 

[Ade]

Fatbike going uphill on ice.
[youtube]synsozdV34I[/youtube]

 

[macribs]

Well what do you know, fat bike even work on ice

Still I got to say for icy conditions I much prefer narrow studded mtb tires. They would give me more confidence.
But you proved it - it is possible even with studded fat bikes on icy hills.

 

[wesnewell]

This is about the dumbest comparison I've seen here. And I've seen a bunch on es. Unless you can reach hydroplaning speeds, a wider tire will always give you better traction than a narrow tire, given the same tread design. Dry, snow, ice, rain, it doesn't matter. The more rubber on the road surface will always give better traction. This has been proven time and time again by tire manufacturers. And fricking common sense should be enough.

 

[macribs]

This is about the dumbest comparison I've seen here. And I've seen a bunch on es. Unless you can reach hydroplaning speeds, a wider tire will always give you better traction than a narrow tire, given the same tread design. Dry, snow, ice, rain, it doesn't matter. The more rubber on the road surface will always give better traction. This has been proven time and time again by tire manufacturers. And fricking common sense should be enough.

Mm and you being from Texas US have quiet the experience with ice roads, frozen waterfalls etc? Well to be as blunt as you was wesnewel, not only are you totally wrong but you come off as as rather ignorant & dumb too. Whats with the attitude, did you grow up in barn?

Look at those tiny narrow tires at the WRC racing car, the ice tires are narrow for a reason. Because the more narrow the tires are the more the grip is determined by the studs in the tire. Or do you really think a good ol' southern boy like you know better then them 50-100 millions dollars a year racing teams that do racing for living?

And why relay on the rubber on ice, the rubber will not give you grip & traction on polished ice - wide tires are not better on ice.
Narrow is better on ice and the studs will take you home safe every time.

 

[montyp]

Unless you can reach hydroplaning speeds, a wider tire will always give you better traction than a narrow tire, given the same tread design. Dry, snow, ice, rain, it doesn't matter. The more rubber on the road surface will always give better traction. This has been proven time and time again by tire manufacturers.

In certain conditions of snow on an ebike you are basically hydroplaning at normal speeds (+5mph). In the same way that the water tension separates the tire from the road - at speed the snow separates the tire from the road.

The tire has to crush the snow. Temperature, moisture content, age, crystal size of the snow play big roles in the force it takes to get good traction. The road condition plays a role as well - if there is ice under the snow it is clear from my experience that with studded tires the more narrow the tire the better.

 

[Grizzl-E]

This is about the dumbest comparison I've seen here. And I've seen a bunch on es. Unless you can reach hydroplaning speeds, a wider tire will always give you better traction than a narrow tire, given the same tread design. Dry, snow, ice, rain, it doesn't matter. The more rubber on the road surface will always give better traction. This has been proven time and time again by tire manufacturers. And fricking common sense should be enough.

Lol.

I really wish I lived somewhere I could maintain this kind of opinion.

Come to Winnipeg mid January. You can learn all about it first hand.

Edit: To be fair the above opinion would be correct if studs where taken out of the equation, and if you could buy a bike tire made out of super soft rubber to negate the loss of dynamic friction as the tire gets colder. And if the ice was dry and had no intermediary layer ie moisture to get through. Difficult since the weight of the bike and rider and friction required to offset wind resistance is usually enough to melt ice under your tires.

So if the world runs out of carbide and you are riding on ice at a temperature of 50 kelvin, with enormous ultra high carbon rubber ballon tires on your bike, and you fill them with unicorn farts. Then you are correct. Bigger tires is always better.

 

[Wheazel]

I have experience from 8 years of wintercycling here in Sweden. I have not tried a modern fatbike, but ive tried different mopeds which should replicate the effects to some extent. My own conclusions are as follows:

When biking in untouched powdery snow no tyre will float unless you have something snowmobile track wide. Narrow spiketyres win as they roll with lower effort.

On new wet alittle heavier snow, you can be better off with wider tyres like fatbike tyres if they mange to float.

If the snow is fresh but very icy and dense (fell during windy conditions and consist of small ice particles) Then a narrow tyre is better.
The narrower the better to reach the surface under the snow and get a grip there. Wider tyres are all over the place in this kind of snow.
This also applies for snow that gets mushed and crushed by cars to a snow-ice sludge. Regular and wide tyres suck in these conditions.
For these conditions, one would be better off riding with circular sawblades If the tyres were wide enough to float on this surface, it could be an improvement.
That probably wont happen with 4" wide ones tho.

These are the most demanding conditions to bike in my opinion.
Uneven and/or icy surfaces are easier, and handled with suspension and good spiketyres (of any kind). Which pretty much means 26" tyres.

 

[wesnewell]

http://texasalmanac.com/topics/environment/extreme-weather-records

 

[MadRhino]

:lol: Wes

Don't try to compete with Winnipeg for cold winter. The extreme record of Tx happens many times each winter there, with much lower occasionnally.... and f***n windy I recall.

A bike can be versatile in the summer, but winter calls for frequent mods.
I used to spend 4 hours making a set of tires, that lasted one race and a half. :|

 

[Grizzl-E]

I could dip into the historical records but I figured you guys might like this from last year.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/frigid-winnipeg-temperatures-reach-cold-planet-mars-204225571.html

Winnipeg was colder than Mars

 

[macribs]

http://texasalmanac.com/topics/environment/extreme-weather-records

Now I just feel sorry for you, I really hope you will get better soon.

 

[Ade]

I have experience from 8 years of wintercycling here in Sweden. I have not tried a modern fatbike, but ive tried different mopeds which should replicate the effects to some extent. My own conclusions are as follows:

When biking in untouched powdery snow no tyre will float unless you have something snowmobile track wide. Narrow spiketyres win as they roll with lower effort.

On new wet alittle heavier snow, you can be better off with wider tyres like fatbike tyres if they mange to float.

If the snow is fresh but very icy and dense (fell during windy conditions and consist of small ice particles) Then a narrow tyre is better.
The narrower the better to reach the surface under the snow and get a grip there. Wider tyres are all over the place in this kind of snow.
This also applies for snow that gets mushed and crushed by cars to a snow-ice sludge. Regular and wide tyres suck in these conditions.
For these conditions, one would be better off riding with circular sawblades If the tyres were wide enough to float on this surface, it could be an improvement.
That probably wont happen with 4" wide ones tho.

These are the most demanding conditions to bike in my opinion.
Uneven and/or icy surfaces are easier, and handled with suspension and good spiketyres (of any kind). Which pretty much means 26" tyres.

Fatbike tires aren't moped tires. Fat tires will usually generate much more traction due to the aggressive tread. In my experience, generally fat tires are better than thin tires in most snowy conditions. In icy conditions, with the right studs, the disadvantage of a wider width/less force per stud can be offset somewhat and are still better overall if there are mixed conditions.

That's not to say you can't ride skinny tires in the snow - you can, lots of people do in winter here - but IMO it sucks compared to fat tires.

 

[Wheazel]

Thats intresting, in the sludge that develops from cars mushing the snow around, I feel that a 2,5" tyre works worse than a 1,5" tyre to name an example.
At what width do you recon the tyre stops going all over the place? 110kg total weight with standard 2 wheels.

 

[Ade]

Thats intresting, in the sludge that develops from cars mushing the snow around, I feel that a 2,5" tyre works worse than a 1,5" tyre to name an example.
At what width do you recon the tyre stops going all over the place? 110kg total weight with standard 2 wheels.

"Sludge" is a different kettle of fish - it's damn awful and I've not found anything that works well in that, in fact, of the 2 or 3 times I came off my bike last winter, it was down to heavy churned up sludge.

 

[MadRhino]

Slushy ice requires long spikes, those are the kind that are killing a tire short of one hour of race. Slush starts riding much better from 25 Mph and above, but then it is braking that sucks.