First Conversion - Giant Sedona - Your input greatly apprec.

[dogman dan]

Hard to beat the option of just ordering a complete kit from Grin. Getting just the battery from grin is also an option if he needs to save some money on the motor itself.

 

[e-beach]

Hard to beat the option of just ordering a complete kit from Grin. ......

And grin does have a great reputation for customer service. Would you pay a little extra for stuff that works and great customer service?

 

[OCMike]

Hard to beat the option of just ordering a complete kit from Grin. Getting just the battery from grin is also an option if he needs to save some money on the motor itself.

Hard to beat the option of just ordering a complete kit from Grin. ......

And grin does have a great reputation for customer service. Would you pay a little extra for stuff that works and great customer service?

I don't know how to say this without sounding like a prick ...

I'm not a rich man. Do I need to save money? No. Do I want to save money? Yes! It's the wanting to save money that keeps me in the category of not needing to save money ... know what I mean?

I think long and hard before all my biggish discretionary purchases. I want to really want it. Not just get caught up in the marketing psychology that makes us want to buy stuff.

I know I want to do the eBike thing. This purchase is difficult though because there's lots to know in order to make an informed decision about what to purchase. I realize there's a learning curve and learning is going to cost money. Recently, I've also conceded there will be some buyers remorse (probably born from second guessing my choise) no matter what I choose as my first purchase.

It looks like my 48v 10ah battery idea isn't a good one ... thank you all for the education!

Forums like this are great! It's obvious you guys have knowledge, experience, and are not operating under some hidden agenda designed to separate me from my money.

So, with that said, I'll go with a eZee (grin) kit including the battery. I'm 200 pounds, live in Huntington Beach (not many hills), I'm interested in long range. I think 20mph is fast enough. I'm a pedaler but not always. I'm well educated but know I have a lot to learn about everything in life and this stuff is pretty daunting.

I'm thinking rear geared. I like the stealth idea. I think $600 for a 36v 12ah bottle type battery (amped) is too much. My bike is a 21 speed Giant Sedona.

I think I'll need: Kit plus battery plus charger plus torque arms plus puncture resistant tire plus new shifter for the new rear gears plus lock(s) plus side saddle bags (paniers I think) plus whatever else I haven't thought of.

What should I get if money was no object? What should I get if money is an object? What's the best bang for the buck?

 

[wesnewell]

Money is always an object. Either because you don't have any or you want to get the best bang for the buck. I fmoney was really no object, then you could buy something and you didn't like it you could just buy something else. I have plenty of money, but I don't like wasting it either. My first kit was a 48V 500W yescomusa kit bought off ebay for ~$230 with free shipping. I had lots of 7ah sla ups batteries, so I used 4 of them to make the first ride. After about a week, I decided it was something I wanted to use, but with more power and speed so I ordered the 48V 1000W kit, a Hyperion 1420i charger and enough rc lipo to make a 5ah 14s pack. With that setup I got plenty of power and top speed over 30mph. I rode that for a few months before I decide I wanted more power and speed even though I knew I really didn't need it or would even make use of it. But I wanted it available. Thus the switch to a 72V controller and 18s lipo. I ran that till last June when I upgrade to 24s lipo. I've got over 8000 miles on the original 1000W with no problems with it. The point being, why spend more than you need too. If I were buying today, I'd get the same kit because you just can beat the price performance cost. About the only thing I'd do different would be to get the Thunder 1220 instead of the Hyperion 1420 charger. The 48V 1000W kit will get you a top speed of ~28mph on 12s lipo. And if you later want to get a 72v controller and go to 24s, the motor will take it. For $285, you can't beat it.

 

[e-beach]

I think I'll need: Kit plus battery plus charger plus torque arms plus puncture resistant tire plus new shifter for the new rear gears plus lock(s) plus side saddle bags (paniers I think) plus whatever else I haven't thought of.

Ask them at grin if you need a 5mm spacer to keep your rear gears from rubbing on your frame. All you really need is enough room for your chain to clear plus a little extra. 5mm seems to be a good size for the purpose. A thick lock washer could also work.

Optional stuff you should / could have:

I use one rear folding grocery rack attached to my rear rack. I t allows me to carry more stuff in the event I have left my backpack / paniers at home and decide to stop at the market for something.

A good headlight and tail light for night city riding.

I carry a good U lock and a cable. I wrap the cable through my front tire and lock it with U lock going through my frame and back tire. One eyelet of the cable is on one side of my bike and one eyelet on the other side. The u-lock goes through both eyelets on either side of the bike.
The bicycle thieves around here are very skilled and quick. They will see something like that and move on to and easier target.

Perhaps off-road Slime Tire & Tube Sealant for your 2mm thorn resistant inner tubes. It's the big city, after all and you never know what has fallen into the street.

A mirror to see what is coming up behind you.

A bicycle computer for speed and miles.

An watt meter to know how much juice you have used to gauge when you need to recharge, or turn around and go home or peddle more.
Watt meters can be had on eBay for $16.00 or so. the Cycle Analyst from grin is the top of the line device of this type.

Dirty socks to place over your cycling computer / watt meter so the thieves only see dirty socks and a well locked bike and moves on.

A good helmet.

A neck that acts like a swivel to see what is going on around you because it's the big city after all and you never know what stupid maneuvers the cagers will try to pull on you. And they will pull all of them.

A week to get your e-bike built, because the first one always seems to take about a week to fully sort-out and get it going. After your first one you will be able to build another one in a few hours.

 

[OCMike]

I'm dilemma'd

eZee rear geared 400 watt with Shwalbe and blah blah blah is $750
eZee 37v 9ah LifePO4 with charger is $795
A whole bunch of accessories mentioned by me and e-beach is probably $300.

That's a whopping $1845!

Then wesnewell says if he were to do it again he'd do it basically the same way he already did it -

$285 for a 1000watt rear wheel. Add battery.

A ping 36v 15 ah is $423.
A ping 48v 20ah is $658

These batteries are rated discharging amperage of 15amps and 20amps respectively. That doesn't sound like enough for the controller - Is it? These batteries are offered with an upgraded BMS for additional cost - what does that mean?

I guess rc batteries are even less expensive but require some expertise and are dangerous in the wrong hands (likely my hands are the wrong hands).

With the accessories this brings my total cost down to $900 - $1200. That's a really significant difference!

gots to do something ... too much analysis paralysis!

I looked at rc lipo batteries today .. they all seem to be 25C .. that wow'd me .. I'm so green! But it was $120 for a 22.2v 5ah 25C 2 by 3S battery. It seems like 4 of those and you have a 44.4v 10ah battery. I'd probably burn my house down!?!

Now I looked at wesnewell's link to the zippy rc batteries again ... those are way low on the cost scale! And they're 1.6 pounds each? So, for about 6.5 pounds you get 44.4v 10ah 20C -- that sounds way good! No? And they're about $50 each? Now I'm at less than $500 plus accessories! Jeez ... spend money or go headache?

I think I need to go nike on this.

e-beach : when you're in Huntington Beach you're in my neighborhood ... if I see a guy on an electric bike downtown I'll see if it's you ...

I should just get the stupid thing!

 

[e-beach]

I'm dilemma'd ........e-beach : when you're in Huntington Beach you're in my neighborhood ... if I see a guy on an electric bike downtown I'll see if it's you ...
I should just get the stupid thing!

Mike, I got to tell you that I have been very satisfied with my yescomusa kit. It is a bare-bones system, but it has been very dependable for me. It is low cost but that leaves cash in your pocket for extras. My 36v motor pulls me around the city on the flats at 20mph wot and a bit faster when I pedal. I weigh 210lbs today and my bike 80lbs so we routinely roll around at 300lbs plus. I didn't have the money at the time , but if I could have afforded it, I would have build a 48v rear hub motor. And yes, I would use a yescomusa motor again when I build another bike.

I don't use the grips, the rack, the battery bag or the bungy cord. You always have to put a rim liner on it because they don't come with one. And, after riding it for a while you will need to tru the wheel because the spokes can come loose at least onc, but the motor, controller and motor-cutoff break levers have been very dependable for me.

The reason I went with LiFePO4 is for safety. Because I ride from the Venice Beach area to the Downtown L.A. area with some frequency, I need to charge my bike at work.

Can you imagine what would happen if your bike caught fire at work? Or for that matter, burned your house down?

And yes, wesnewell is always correct about the power and price of rc lipo, it is less expensive, has a much higher C rating then LiFePo4, it is more compact and weighs less, but on occasion rc lipo catches on fire. So it is the safer, heaver, less C rated LiFePO4 for me.

No doubt that grin is quality, but it you want to spend under $1200.00 then yescomusa is hard to beat.

Besides, if you use your e-bike as your daily rider, It will pay for itself in less then a year. Think about it this way, if I charge at home every day it costs me 5¢ for every 30 miles I ride on my bike. When I charge some where other then home, it costs me less.

If you decided to go with a yescomusa kit, you should be fine.

 

[bonald]

or just go to em3ev.com and buy the direct drive kit with a 10ah battery, cost 615$ and plug and play.

 

[lbz5mc12]

I don't know if you would be interested in this site at all. He's localish and has done really good work for me.

http://underscoreev.com/

 

[OCMike]

Tried to order from yescom today and pay with paypal. Didn't work Could be blessing in disguise ...

I just got off the phone with them ... I'm going to drive to their warehouse tomorrow (it's 35 miles from my house) and pick up the product. Apparently, there is substantial savings when you pick up in person - that's the blessing!

I'm planning on getting a rear DD 36v 700 watt wheel. The online advertisement battery recommendation is:

1. Electrokinetic cell battery ( Li, lead-acid, NiMH battery etc.) featured in nominal voltage 36V, nominal capacity not less than 14Ah is compatible with the motor.
2. Li battery is highly recommended, among which LiMn2O4 battery will be of optimum performance

I've got the purchase of a 48v 10ah Li-ion 2C battery lined up.

I hope (and prey) this motor, controller, and battery will marry well.

If anyone wants to join me on a drive to yescom let me know. I don't like traffic so I'll likely head out around 10:30am. Plan to be back by 12:30pm. I live in Huntington Beach near Brookhurst & Adams.

Cheers ...

 

[e-beach]

Tried to order from yescom today and pay with paypal. Didn't work Could be blessing in disguise ...

I just got off the phone with them ... I'm going to drive to their warehouse tomorrow (it's 35 miles from my house) and pick up the product. Apparently, there is substantial savings when you pick up in person - that's the blessing!

I'm planning on getting a rear DD 36v 700 watt wheel. The online advertisement battery recommendation is:

1. Electrokinetic cell battery ( Li, lead-acid, NiMH battery etc.) featured in nominal voltage 36V, nominal capacity not less than 14Ah is compatible with the motor.
2. Li battery is highly recommended, among which LiMn2O4 battery will be of optimum performance

I've got the purchase of a 48v 10ah Li-ion 2C battery lined up.

I hope (and prey) this motor, controller, and battery will marry well.

If anyone wants to join me on a drive to yescom let me know. I don't like traffic so I'll likely head out around 10:30am. Plan to be back by 12:30pm. I live in Huntington Beach near Brookhurst & Adams.

Cheers ...

10:30-12:30 are the times I went out there as well. :lol: I would to love to tag along but I am booked solid until after next Tuesday.

A couple of things:

1) I would highly recommend paying the extra $10.00 to get the 48v 800w rear hub motor, especially if you are going to run a 48v battery. My reasoning is this, there is no guarantee that the 36v controller will function with a 48v battery. The 36v controller may, and I say may because it is almost impossible to find information on the generic Chinese controllers they use, the 36v controller may have over-voltage protection circuitry built into it with no way of finding out about it until it doesn't work right or burns out. Believe me, you don't want a big e-bike headache right off the bat! This is your first build and there is no reason to "fool-around" too much yet. Once you are experienced then modify away!

For $10.00 more just go with what you know will work. 48v motor and 48v battery.

2)Don't pay much attention to the battery chemistry they advertize a the one to use. I have used SLA's and LiFePO4 and both have worked fine. Get the battery that you want that matches the voltage of the motor. Batteries are always the expensive part of building a good e-bike. Spending $500-$900 is normal depending on the range you want.

Question: what battery are you considering?

 

[OCMike]

1) I would highly recommend paying the extra $10.00 to get the 48v 800w rear hub motor, especially if you are going to run a 48v battery. My reasoning is this, there is no guarantee that the 36v controller will function with a 48v battery. The 36v controller may, and I say may because it is almost impossible to find information on the generic Chinese controllers they use, the 36v controller may have over-voltage protection circuitry built into it with no way of finding out about it until it doesn't work right or burns out. Believe me, you don't want a big e-bike headache right off the bat! This is your first build and there is no reason to "fool-around" too much yet. Once you are experienced then modify away!

For $10.00 more just go with what you know will work. 48v motor and 48v battery.

2)Don't pay much attention to the battery chemistry they advertize a the one to use. I have used SLA's and LiFePO4 and both have worked fine. Get the battery that you want that matches the voltage of the motor. Batteries are always the expensive part of building a good e-bike. Spending $500-$900 is normal depending on the range you want.

Question: what battery are you considering?

OK ... I can do that.

I'm planning to buy 2 Li-ion 48v 10ah 2C batteries for $620 from a private party. I met the guy today and rode his road bike with a 36v 600 watt DD HighTek front wheel. That was the first time I've ridden a non Currie or Pedego bike - first time I rode a DIY. That was FUN! Wow - lots of power! It was a blast! Wow!

My plan is to only use one battery at a time - no paralleling. But on longish rides I will bring the second with me. He over-volted his with the 48v 10ah battery. He says he hits like 37mph with pedaling.

Here's the ad to the batteries I'm going to buy:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/3710204952.html

Real nice guy - helpful with information ... seems on the up and up.

I just hope the motor/controller marry well with the battery.

Only time will tell I suppose Wish me luck! I need it!

 

[e-beach]

1) I would highly recommend paying the extra $10.00 to get the 48v 800w rear hub motor, especially if you are going to run a 48v battery. My reasoning is this, there is no guarantee that the 36v controller will function with a 48v battery. The 36v controller may, and I say may because it is almost impossible to find information on the generic Chinese controllers they use, the 36v controller may have over-voltage protection circuitry built into it with no way of finding out about it until it doesn't work right or burns out. Believe me, you don't want a big e-bike headache right off the bat! This is your first build and there is no reason to "fool-around" too much yet. Once you are experienced then modify away!

For $10.00 more just go with what you know will work. 48v motor and 48v battery.

2)Don't pay much attention to the battery chemistry they advertize a the one to use. I have used SLA's and LiFePO4 and both have worked fine. Get the battery that you want that matches the voltage of the motor. Batteries are always the expensive part of building a good e-bike. Spending $500-$900 is normal depending on the range you want.

Question: what battery are you considering?

OK ... I can do that.

I'm planning to buy 2 Li-ion 48v 10ah 2C batteries for $620 from a private party. I met the guy today and rode his road bike with a 36v 600 watt DD HighTek front wheel. That was the first time I've ridden a non Currie or Pedego bike - first time I rode a DIY. That was FUN! Wow - lots of power! It was a blast! Wow!

My plan is to only use one battery at a time - no paralleling. But on longish rides I will bring the second with me. He over-volted his with the 48v 10ah battery. He says he hits like 37mph with pedaling.

Here's the ad to the batteries I'm going to buy:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/3710204952.html

Real nice guy - helpful with information ... seems on the up and up.

I just hope the motor/controller marry well with the battery.

Only time will tell I suppose Wish me luck! I need it!

OK, when you get your 48v 800w yescomusa rear hub motor please post because installation is very specific. We will help you with that. Mounting the controller and batteries is less specific but should be done properly.

Sounds like you have a good contact for your batteries, but I still must say that 800 cycles in the batteries you are looking at are not as good as the 2000 cycles of LiFePO4's.

On the other hand, you will have a 10ah system for around town and a 20ah system for longer rides.

Let us know when you get your 48v 800ah kit!



PS.... GOOD LUCK!

 

[wesnewell]

2 problems.
First and foremost. 10ah 2C battery is only rated for 20A. Controller will draw 30A. Think ruined battery.
Second, and just as important, maybe more so, the 36V controller will have an LVC of 30-31V. If you run a 48V li-ion battery down to 30V, you're way below a safe voltage. With a 13s pack, that's down to 2.3V per cell. BMS may save it, but I wouldn't count on it. They are often set too low also.
Let me know how this works out for you in a few months.

 

[e-beach]

2 problems.
First and foremost. 10ah 2C battery is only rated for 20A. Controller will draw 30A. Think ruined battery.
Second, and just as important, maybe more so, the 36V controller will have an LVC of 30-31V. If you run a 48V li-ion battery down to 30V, you're way below a safe voltage. With a 13s pack, that's down to 2.3V per cell. BMS may save it, but I wouldn't count on it. They are often set too low also.
Let me know how this works out for you in a few months.

Wesnewell is right about the 10a 2c battery, that one got past me...

Yescomusa controllers will draw 30 amps if / when you A) suddenly go Wide Open Throttle from a standing start B) suddenly go WOT from a low speed. C) go up a steep hill and need to go WOT to get up the hill. These are the normal scenarios you might encounter a 30 amp draw from a yescomusa controller. Once you begin to gain speed or are over the hill the amp draw goes down.

Double check with your battery contact out in Fullerton and ask about the peak C rating and continuous C rating. Tell him that you are going to get a kit that can draw 30 amps and want to make sure the batteries can handle it. Alternately you might be able to wire them in parallel for a 20ah pack and solve the problem that way.

This from your battery contact's Craiglist posting...... that battery might be OK, but ask your battery vendor about a 30 amp draw to be sure.
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/3710204952.html

Battery Model 48V 10AH
Nominal Capacity (AH) 10
Nominal Voltage (V) 48
Source Resistance (mΩ) 40
Cell Combination 4-parallels
13-series
Cell Quantity (parallel*series) 52
Discharge Cutoff Voltage (V) 41
Charge Cutoff Voltage (V) 54.6
Rated Discharge Current (A) 20
Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A) 30
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current (A) 20
Maximum Continuous Charge Current (A) 5
Charge Mode CC-CV
Standard Charge Current (A) 2
Charge Time under Standard Charge Current 6 hours
Fast Charge Current (A) 5
Charge Time under Fast Charge Current 2.5 hours
Charge Temperature Range -20-55
Discharge Temperature Range -20-55

As for the second part of wes's well made point, a 48v yescomusa kit will solve the problem.

 

[declarkus]

I actually just did a front hub conversion with a Giant Sedona. Since this is my first build, I went with the lowest maintenance options. The em3ev.com 500W DD kit (high rpm model) and a Ping 48v 10AH. I installed it the night it got here. I've been playing around with it for about a month now. I wanted to give you general "noob-to-noob" stats and advice that really helped make my install easy:

First of all, get a Cycle Analyst. It tells you eveything and it makes riding more fun. It also lets you set limits on speed and/or amps. I limited my amps to 30. I hit 37mph going down a hill yesterday (way faster than I can pedal), but I usually average between 24-26 mph on level terrain while casually pedaling along. Theres a short hill that is very steep where I used to have to get off and walk up. While the motor lags, it will take you up without pedaling at about 11mph. When I pedal it never drops below 15mph. I haven't fully tested the range (killed the battery), and have gone over 15 miles in mixed terrain and winds before charging. I've mostly been full throttle the whole time, but I'm beginning to use my CA to maximize my range. A 20 minute trip can range 2AH depending on throttle management.

Torque arm is a no brainer must have. I could tell you a story but this post is too long already. Just trust me. Had I not been told about C-washers, I would've never known I installed it wrong. It's rarely mentioned by sellers. You also need 2 even though they sell them individually. It will be very obvious when you install them, but basically the drop out isn't flat. The washer fills the indention in the drop out where the quick release mechanism secures. The only tool I had to get was a 21mm wrench for the nut on the side with the wire coming out. The kit was plug and play. All you need is connectors to link the battery to the controller.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about e-bikes. I spent a few months on here researching, and I'm grateful for the advice I received. I really enjoy the front hub. I have my battery in the triangle and it's well balanced. I have Conti Town & Country road tires and I don't really have spinning issues. Only up gravel inclines from a stop to full throttle. The thing I like most about my front DD is what I hear others bash it for: regenerative braking. When you let off the throttle going down an incline, the motor will actually slow the bike down. It even adds (minimal) power back in the battery. I didn't add an e-brake because of this. Really an e-brake is silly. You don't need it. If you want to slow down, you'll let off the throttle. Anyway, just do it. The Sedona is a good, solid bike. I would be careful mounting a geared motor on the front. I don't think it will fit. My 500W DD barely fit and I think geared are fatter.

 

[dnmun]

i don't think many people have bot the amped bikes kits for awhile.

since shipping is such a big cost you might investigate whether you could get a really cheap rear motor from yescomusa like he said. the controller is kinda cheap but it works, and you can buy a used motor from someone who advertises here. and batteries too since sometimes people sell batteries.

the cheapest of the big pouch packs is sun-thing28 guy who sells the 48V20Ah pack for $549 by air freight and li ping is right behind at around $675. but they are rectangular packs and don't fit in many frames so you would need to separate it into two sections and mount them in panniers. or use a 48V15Ah pouch pack from ping and it may fit in the frame since it is smaller. and cell-man makes fitted packs. made to fit the frame close enuff, but just costs more.

 

[OCMike]

Thanks for the continued input gents!

OK ... I'm not buying those batteries ... I always tell my students "A truly wise person makes use of the wisdom of others - be that wise person". I follow this up with "I know of nobody who is truly wise - everyone seems to learn by mistake". OK - I'm trying to be that wise person here ... don't do it (don't buy the batteries that probably aren't going to live up to a standard you've only just begun to scratch the surface of understanding).

But I think I will buy the yescom kit - not today though - it's already 11am and I'm still at home. I need to decide between 48v 800watt kit, 48v 1000watt kit, 36v 500watt kit, and 36v 700watt kit.

I wanted to buy two batteries because weight is a problem. When I go somewhere I don't want to carry a 20+ pound battery with me. For some reason I've pegged sub 13 pound as the max I'd want to carry with me. But lighter is even better! 8 pounds would be great. Heck, I could walk around doing some kind of arm exercises with it .

This kind of puts me back to this battery:

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-9/36v-15ah-lifepo4-lithium/Detail

It's 12.3 pounds and $423 + better charger (5A for extra $44) And ping has a high rate BMS ... I don't know what I'd want that for but - hey may be it's a good thing to have?

So, here's the thing. For now (first eBike) I think 15 mph no pedaling and 20 mph with heavy pedaling (flat ground) would be fine for me. I want range!

To accomplish this should I get a 36v 500watt DD Rear kit? Or should I get the 700watt kit? Or should I just plunge and get a 48v kit?

I think higher watts equates to less range - I'm kidding myself if I think I'm not going to spend most of my time on the bike not at WOT. Having a controller that as an EconoMode setting (does that exist - I'm a noob) may help in this capacity. Or maybe I'd never use Econo and I'd be in TurboMode always.

Now that I've written all this I look at the posts I'm responding to, I see a new post - declarkus adds awesome information!

I looked at the 500watt DD front kit (highest rpm) and it says the controller is 25A. But the 48v 10ah Ping LifePO has these stats:

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-13/48V-10AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail

Rated Discharging Amperage: 10 Amps
Max Continuous Discharging Amperage: 20 Amps
Maximum Discharging Current: 40 Amps
Discharging Cut-off Protection: 30 Amps

It appears, given my meager understanding, the battery will not keep up with the controller.

What say you e-beach, wesnewell, declarkus?

At the time I'm writing this I'm leaning towards a front install from em3ev. 500watt 25mph on flat with casual pedaling sounds pretty awesome! Over 15 miles in mixed terrain sounds pretty awesome!

If/when I meet anyone from this thread ... beers are on me!

Thanks! Back to analysis paralysis.

 

[dnmun]

range is just about the battery. you should buy the big motor because that is the only way to get the big controller. from yescomusa. and rear is better, front is just cheaper. for big.

please do not buy a bottle battery or one of the Vpower packs. nothing wrong with the ping or the sun-thing28 packs. you want the biggest one you can carry if you want range and speed. using panniers to carry the split pack is how most do it.

 

[e-beach]

.....I need to decide between 48v 800watt kit, 48v 1000watt kit, 36v 500watt kit, and 36v 700watt kit.....

I weigh just over 200lbs and my 36v 800w yescomusa front hub motored e-bike with everything on it, motor, batteries, locks, rack, light etc weighs in at 80 lbs. With a backpack we roll around at 300lbs most of the time.

My 15ah Headway pack will pull me 20-22 miles, depending on wind conditions, on a 90 minute charge with my 12ah charger. That is riding in stop and go city traffic, a lot of WOT, mild hills, not much pedaling averaging about 12mph due to stopping at lights. My bike on the flats will go 20mph with no pedaling and faster when I pedal.

Going up steeper hills, pedaling is a must due to the 36v setup.

So, here's the thing. For now (first eBike) I think 15 mph no pedaling and 20 mph with heavy pedaling (flat ground) would be fine for me. I want range! To accomplish this should I get a 36v 500watt DD Rear kit? Or should I get the 700watt kit? Or should I just plunge and get a 48v kit?

500w seems like an underpowered bike to me. Stick with the 48v 700w or 1000w rear hub motor IMHO. Or if you want to save money and don't care about having to pedal up hills, 36v 800w gets me around just fine. It could also work for you.

I think higher watts equates to less range - I'm kidding myself if I think I'm not going to spend most of my time on the bike not at WOT. Having a controller that as an EconoMode setting (does that exist - I'm a noob) may help in this capacity. Or maybe I'd never use Econo and I'd be in TurboMode always.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but watt hours in your battery pack is what equates to range. Around here they usually say volts X amps = watt hours. For the purpose of calculating range I find that to be a conservative figure but then we don't have too many days of heavy wind or many steep hills. So for example a 48v 15ah battery would be 720 watt hours. Hypothetically, lets say you are riding in a way that uses 25 watts per mile, then you could go 28.8 miles before the battery is fully depleted and needs to be recharged. A 36v 15ah pack could get you 21.6 miles before depletion. It is not recommended to fully discharge your battery pack often as it will reduce the life span of the battery pack. Range can be extended by riding slower, and pedaling more.

Also, for that EconoMode one could purchase a three position switch like this http://ebike.ca/store/photos/T-3Switch.jpg
Other people around ES sell them as well.
You will need a torque arm for you bike anyway so if you decided to purchase one Grin tech, ask them about the T-3 switch.

At the time I'm writing this I'm leaning towards a front install from em3ev. 500watt 25mph on flat with casual pedaling sounds pretty awesome! Over 15 miles in mixed terrain sounds pretty awesome!

I roll around on a front hub motor, I think that rear installs are safer. Less chance of having the forks crack open and your front wheel coming off plus if it happens to a rear hub motor you still have a chance to control the bike.

If/when I meet anyone from this thread ... beers are on me!

I will start with a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. :lol:

BTW, have you considered how you are going to mount the battery? In the triangle gives the best weight balance and stability for the bike. Also have you measured how much space is in your triangle? An easy way to do that is put a piece of cardboard against the frame, tracing your triangle and then cutting out the cardboard.

 

[OCMike]

OK ... I'm back to yescom rear install.

My understanding or way of thinking (please correct this because it's evolving) is that larger motors are capable of consuming energy faster. So a 1000watt motor could consume energy twice as fast as a 500watt motor. If you half throttle a 1000watt motor it will consume energy at the same rate as if you full throttled a 500watt motor (all other things being equal). I know all other things aren't exactly equal - i.e. weight of motor is different and efficiencies are different. I don't really get how over-volting applies. In other words I don't really get what happens if you hook up a 48v battery to a 36v 500watt motor and WOT it. I think that would depend on the controller and the configuration of it's settings and would probably tend to over work the motor (cause it to heat up). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Long story short (errr little less long) - knowing myself I'll have a tendency to want to go fast (consume energy). So a 1000watt motor would give me the ability to consume energy fast where a 500watt motor would limit my ability to consume energy. In other words, because of my lack of self-control, a 500watt motor would offer more range to me because it would inhibit my ability to consume energy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In terms of range, I've read a general rule of thumb is 1 mile ~=~ 20V*A. So a 36v 15ah battery would give you 36V*15A = 540V*A and 540/20 = 27. So, you'd get approximately 27 miles on a charge. But it seems you can't run a battery from 100% full to 100% empty without damaging it. And I think the BMS wouldn't allow you to anyways. I assume LVC = low voltage cutoff = threshold where BMS shuts down the battery before it is damaged. Please correct me I'm wrong.

In terms of batteries - I want something that I can carry with me. I'm thinking I'll want to park my bike and take the battery with me because the battery is so valuable. Carrying a heavy battery around is undesirable.

So, using the rule of thumb outlined above and the specs on ping batteries:

48v 10ah = 24 mile, weighs 10.8 pounds, cost $382, is 7.9x4.1x5.9 inches, and Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 550 Watt, 450 Watt suggested
48v 15ah = 36 mile, weighs 16.5 pounds, cost $533, is 11.8x4.1x5.9 inches, and Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 800 Watt, 600 Watt suggested
36v 15ah = 27 mile, weighs 12.3 pounds, cost $423, is 8.9x4.1x5.9 inches, and Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 600 Watt, 450 Watt suggested

So, the range, cost, and weight of the 36v 15ah battery seems to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. But a larger than 600watt motor isn't recommended for this battery. And from posters descriptions of their experiences a 600 watt motor will give me the thrill I'm looking for.

So, that's where my thought process is right now. But everyone, almost without exception, says get a bigger motor, get a 48v battery, get the largest 48v Xah battery you can afford ... you won't be sorry and if you don't you'll wish you had. With all these people saying this there must be A LOT of truth to what they're saying! And it seems 48v 20ah is like the gold standard. And this would give 48 miles of range using the rule of thumb. But its cost is $658 and it weighs a whopping 21.9 pounds.

e-beach sounds happy with his 36v 800watt motor. He weighs a little less than me. He has a headway 15ah battery but I'm not sure of the volts. The stats he provides sound more than adequate for my current wants and desires.

I know everyone has different needs and different satisfaction thresholds. I think I kind of just have to do something realizing that dialing in on exactly what I want is going to take trial and error.

So, right now I'm leaning towards a ping 36v 15ah battery and a 36v 600watt motor from yescom. But e-beach has a 800watt motor to go along with the stats he provided. 800 isn't 600 and ping doesn't recommend using their 36v 15ah battery on a motor larger than 600watt.

I'd like to have something on the road by June 1. But the way I'm going sometimes it feels like I'll be lucky to be on the road by 2014.

 

[e-beach]

OK ... I'm back to yescom rear install.

It is hard to go wrong with these motors for simple commuting.

I don't really get how over-volting applies. In other words I don't really get what happens if you hook up a 48v battery to a 36v 500watt motor and WOT it. I think that would depend on the controller and the configuration of it's settings and would probably tend to over work the motor (cause it to heat up).

"You are correct sir!" Hot hot hot.

Long story short (errr little less long) - knowing myself I'll have a tendency to want to go fast (consume energy). So a 1000watt motor would give me the ability to consume energy fast where a 500watt motor would limit my ability to consume energy. In other words, because of my lack of self-control, a 500watt motor would offer more range to me because it would inhibit my ability to consume energy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Necessity will be the mother of your riding habits...... When you are going fast and have your inaugural close-call or crash, your riding habits will change. When you find yourself underpowered and in traffic your riding habits will change. When you are dog-tired from a long day and wished you could go faster without having to pedal so hard, well, you will be wishing you had the power to spare when you needed it and you will be wishing your riding habits could change. Moral of the story, throttle quietly and carry more volts. :lol:

In terms of range, I've read a general rule of thumb is 1 mile ~=~ 20V*A. So a 36v 15ah battery would give you 36V*15A = 540V*A and 540/20 = 27. So, you'd get approximately 27 miles on a charge. But it seems you can't run a battery from 100% full to 100% empty without damaging it. And I think the BMS wouldn't allow you to anyways. I assume LVC = low voltage cutoff = threshold where BMS shuts down the battery before it is damaged. Please correct me I'm wrong.

Yes, yes, and yes, but theory, theory and theory. I can go 20 miles on my 15ah battery pack or I can go 40 miles on my battery pack. I can go 20 miles faster then the metro rapids or the trains. I can go 40 miles if I go 6 mph with a slow but steady cadenced pedaling. 6mph will get me there but it will take me 7 hours. :wink:

In terms of batteries - I want something that I can carry with me. I'm thinking I'll want to park my bike and take the battery with me because the battery is so valuable. Carrying a heavy battery around is undesirable.

Carrying a heavy battery pack would be a drag, I just built it into the frame of my bike. A thief would have to work hard to get it out. Most of them have no idea what it is anyway.

So, the range, cost, and weight of the 36v 15ah battery seems to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. But a larger than 600watt motor isn't recommended for this battery. And from posters descriptions of their experiences a 600 watt motor will give me the thrill I'm looking for.

So, that's where my thought process is right now. But everyone, almost without exception, says get a bigger motor, get a 48v battery, get the largest 48v Xah battery you can afford ... you won't be sorry and if you don't you'll wish you had. With all these people saying this there must be A LOT of truth to what they're saying! And it seems 48v 20ah is like the gold standard. And this would give 48 miles of range using the rule of thumb. But its cost is $658 and it weighs a whopping 21.9 pounds.

e-beach sounds happy with his 36v 800watt motor. He weighs a little less than me. He has a headway 15ah battery but I'm not sure of the volts. The stats he provides sound more than adequate for my current wants and desires.

I am rolling around on a yescomusa 36v 800w front hub motor powered by a 36v 15ah Headway battery pack. I charge it with a 12ah battery charger through a 12S 36V 50A/100A BMS all of which can be bought at Headway-Headquarters in Washington state.

If I had the money at the time I built my e-bike I would have gone for a 48v 20ah setup. I just couldn't afford it at the time.

So, right now I'm leaning towards a ping 36v 15ah battery and a 36v 600watt motor from yescom. But e-beach has a 800watt motor to go along with the stats he provided. 800 isn't 600 and ping doesn't recommend using their 36v 15ah battery on a motor larger than 600watt.

I'd like to have something on the road by June 1. But the way I'm going sometimes it feels like I'll be lucky to be on the road by 2014.

I still say go for the 48v 1000w / 20ah setup if you can afford it. But if you want to roll around at 36v then go for the 800w kit and put a 3 position switch on your handle bars to keep you safe and satisfy your distances.

 

[wesnewell]

Let me make one thing clear. The motor size has nothing to do with the battery you need. The amps required from the battery pack are a function of the controller. Period. You can run a 5000W motor on a 10ah ping battery if you limit the controller you use to 15A. If you take a 200W motor and use a 50A controller with it, it will burn up a 10ah ping in no time. As with most things listed for all these lifepo4 batteries, take them with a grain of salt. If you're looking for a small and light battery pack with more than enough power to handle 30A then you could use a 5ah 20C 12s lipo pack that weighs 3 lbs and will fit in your pocket if you have big pockets.

 

[declarkus]

If you go with the rear conversion you should bump up to the 1000W motor. That's my 2WD long term plan.

This is actually the video that inspired my decision to build a bike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS1UkcUalUI

 

[OCMike]

OK - I'm convinced ... I now want a 48v 20ah ping and a 1000watt rear!

But the ping battery is 5.9 inches wide - if it clears my cranks on both sides it's going to be too close. And I don't think the 48v 15ah ping will fit in my triangle.

Dogman indicated in another thread (overwhelmed newbie) that a 1000watt yescom kit comes with a 30amp controller. He advocates getting the yescom 800watt motor.

Thanks wesnewell - your last post altered my perception of battery/controller/motor a lot!

declarkus - that video is cool!

OK - if classic94 doesn't buy cal3thousand's bike, I think I probably will! Sounds perfect for my purposes. An already working bike sounds great for a lazy boy like me. I'll think about lipo-ing it up and get a 72v controller ...

Else wise though I'm thinking 800watt yescom and 48v ping for my Giant Sedona.