First time poster- wow you guys are the shit! Questions..

[Uteanooga]

I am incredibly impressed with what is being done by the people of Endless-sphere. I stayed up all night reading about Luke's ride. I am flabbergasted. I had no idea you could pack that much energy into a small battery pack. I'd have guessed you would have to have an extension cord plugged into the grid to make a ride do what Luke's does. Racing bullet bikes. Sheesh that is just sick.

So here is my position and I would love your advice. I'm moving soon and will be adjacent to a substantial amount single track maintained by the city. I used to ride road and mountain a lot but had to give it up due to a bum knee. I would love to get back into riding with some e-power. Obviously every one here is well familiar with the appeal adding a motor to your own power. Motorized rides are not allowed on the prospective trails.

I have limited spare time for a number of reasons: I work a lot, have two little kids, and have other hobbies. I took up whitewater kayaking when I gave up riding and am addicted pretty well to that. I'm building a cedar-strip-ocean kayak, which is a great project but not done. The point of all that is that in the short term I am more interested in riding than building. But I am a bit disheveled by reading Luke's exploits all night long! Sheesh Luke that ride is sick!

So I've had my eye on Opti for a few years (have only known about ES for a few months) and have been saving my pennies. I know what the general feeling towards Opti is on the board and can't disagree. It has taken years to stop cursing about the $- actually years to curse a little less about the $. ES has opened my eyes about other possibilities. Different rides will obviously cater to different types of riding.

I'm interested in off-road single track. I don't expect to commute on pavement though I suppose you never know. Some of the single track is fairly steep- not ridiculously steep but steep nonetheless. I'd prefer the ride to be fairly weather resistant. The ride would need to look like a bicycle or I suspect the trail traffic may call officer friendly. I would like the ride to offer exercise. I'm getting middle aged and want to keep in shape. A motorcycle would be a ton of fun but wouldn't offer the fitness aspect (in addition to not being allowed on the trails).

So what do you guys advise? I've been saving $ for some time. The Opti 1100 seems to offer what I'm looking for: ready to ride, buttoned up and water resistant, decent but obviously not Luke-esque power. The down sides are well chronicled- $$$$, no local service, will be pissed if pay $$$$ and it has problems, will probably spend a ton of time trouble shooting if it has problems, time spent trouble shooting will make me more pissed, bike looks kind of lame, will feel a bit like a schmuck after seeing Luke's ride.

On the other hand starting a build is a bit daunting as I don't have a lot of experience with electronics. I have wanted to get into welding in the past and making a frame sounds fun. My retired father is an electrical engineer and would be able to help at times though he does not live in state. As stated earlier, I don't have a ton of time. So how realistic is starting a build that would do what I'm after? How long would it realistically take? Seems like it might be years before I'm actually riding.

You guys probably get a lot of newbs asking questions- so I really appreciate your patience and advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Hillhater]

For a "ready to ride " deal,..Have you considered a "Stealth" Bomber /Fighter instead of the Opti ?
(Assuming you have the $$$'s)
Its more suited to off road riding ,.... and more fun. !
http://stealthelectricbikesusa.com/
for a custom build, i would advise a hub motor conversion on a good existing full suspension frame..to start with.
Minimising the work until you get familiar with the complex issues of Ebikes.

 

[mdd0127]

I have a bike that's 1/3 the cost of an opti, more durable offroad, easily pedalable, and ten times the power. It could use some finishing touches but I ride it a few days a week as is. If you're serious about getting into this, buy my bike and help me take it to the next level.

Search youtube for wittman40mphoffroad or my username .

 

[GITech]

Did you take an arrow to the knee?

 

[dogman dan]

Might want to look at this thread. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24325&p=352269&hilit=9+continent+2810#p352269

A pretty easy thing to bolt a hubmotor to a moderate priced FS mountain bike. It won't eat up THAT much of your time. A 2810 rear nine continent motor makes a decent trail bike at 48v. You'll be able to pedal just a tiny bit to help on the steepest hills, and ride all the moderate hills no pedaling.

Methods has em on sale in the for sale section, in a "Wife Kit" thread.

The other good trail motor is a Mac, 10t. From Emissions Free.

It doesn't have to be really expensive to bolt together a nice enough trail bike for moderate to difficult trails. The basic recipe is the slower version of the hubmotor, and 48v. 20-30 amps controller. It's just your basic Ebike motor kit, but using the slower version of the motor than the street model.

 

[Uteanooga]

Bomber is awfully heavy. Also video of people riding look like they are riding a motorcycle rather than a bike- they don't look like they are getting much exercise. Bomber looks dang fun though. I'd love to ride one- but test ride availability seems to be part of the commercial ebike problem. Opti seems more appealing due to weight being closer to normal bike range and that it reportedly seems to ride more like a bike. Another view of course would be that it requires peddling because it is under powered. Have never ridden either bike.

Mdd- love you shop. Maybe I'll spend my $ on tools instead of a bike. Love the computerized mill. Are there good resources to guide learning to use this stuff?

As for my knee GI- just wear and tear piled on an old skiing tweak. I can ride but it makes my knee ache. The harder I go the more the ache. Hence my interest in e.

As for the hub motor bikes- my impression was that they have limitations in hill riding due to not running the power through gears. Admittedly, I've never ridden one but the idea of gearing to optimize motor efficiency and limit battery/electronics strain is appealing. Reading your thread Dogman- sounds like you are doing some pretty stout riding though. Do you pedal while riding? I thought pedaling and hub motors don't work that well together. I will check out the hub kits at method.

Thanks!

 

[Lock]

Motorized rides are not allowed on the prospective trails.

If you were in Utah for example, with note from your doctor about your (ahem) disabled knee, they can't mess with the Americans with Disabilities Act...

Lock

 

[Gordo]

As for my knee GI- just wear and tear piled on an old skiing tweak. I can ride but it makes my knee ache. The harder I go the more the ache. Hence my interest in e.
Reading your thread Dogman- sounds like you are doing some pretty stout riding though. Do you pedal while riding? I thought pedaling and hub motors don't work that well together. I will check out the hub kits at method.

Thanks!

Where does the idea that pedaling a hub motor doesn't work well come from? The cassette is still on the hub, unless you build a one speed hub.
If you can walk, you can pedal an e-bike. I have smashed up feet and ankles and can't ride a normal bike 2 blocks. With an e-bike you just pedal as you can. If you think you are going tear-assing up trails like you did in your prime, you are going to be disappointed. Don't confuse Luke and the rest of the 10KW crew with 'NORMAL." They build incredible machines, but have both the mechanical and financial resources to smoke stuff and go to plan "B", "C" and "Z". If you can do Lego, you can plug and e-bike kit together. Buy all your parts from ONE source and specify they are plug-n-play. Don't drive yourself crazy shopping for orphan connectors from the Gobi desert. First kit took me 8 hours of scratching my head and turned out to be a POS. I did some more reading on ES and selected another bike as suggested. It took 45 minutes to plug the second one together. Now comes the 3 & 4th.
Good Luck.

 

[oldpiper]

As for my knee GI- just wear and tear piled on an old skiing tweak. I can ride but it makes my knee ache. The harder I go the more the ache. Hence my interest in e.
Reading your thread Dogman- sounds like you are doing some pretty stout riding though. Do you pedal while riding? I thought pedaling and hub motors don't work that well together. I will check out the hub kits at method.

Thanks!

Where does the idea that pedaling a hub motor doesn't work well come from? The cassette is still on the hub, unless you build a one speed hub.
If you can walk, you can pedal an e-bike. I have smashed up feet and ankles and can't ride a normal bike 2 blocks. With an e-bike you just pedal as you can. If you think you are going tear-assing up trails like you did in your prime, you are going to be disappointed. Don't confuse Luke and the rest of the 10KW crew with 'NORMAL." They build incredible machines, but have both the mechanical and financial resources to smoke stuff and go to plan "B", "C" and "Z". If you can do Lego, you can plug and e-bike kit together. Buy all your parts from ONE source and specify they are plug-n-play. Don't drive yourself crazy shopping for orphan connectors from the Gobi desert. First kit took me 8 hours of scratching my head and turned out to be a POS. I did some more reading on ES and selected another bike as suggested. It took 45 minutes to plug the second one together. Now comes the 3 & 4th.
Good Luck.

Just to put in my 2 cents, I couldn't agree more with Gordo's assessment/advice. Get a hub kit from one of the short-list dealers, not an eBay special from xyzzy-ebyke244609 or some such just because he underbids the other kits (all with the exact same picture and kit description, down the the typos and fractured English). If and/or when you decide to put together a 150 mph/150 mile range job, you probably won't be able to get it near the trails you describe. Pedalling works fine, I don't know where people get this cogging-motor problem from, but then, I didn't electrify a $800 bicycle, so my "before" experience was probably not quite as smooth as theirs. For my hub motor bike (a front hub, but it really seems to make little, if any, difference which wheel you motorize, except people are more used to seeing the back wheel with more "stuff" on it), about 10% of my time was used in actually mounting the motor, batteries, etc., and 90% in fiddling with the electrical cables so they were aesthetically positioned on the bike (i.e., hidden). Then the other 90% (+++) was/is taken up in tweaking/upgrading/putting on little "extras" that have caught my eye and somehow become necessary items to re-engineer. I guess that's when you realize that you really like this hobby.

Cameron

 

[mdd0127]

If you were excited about Luke's bike and you go out and buy a cheap chinese hub kit, I'm afraid you'll be terribly disappointed

Why not support an American inventor that used the best available parts to create something really exciting, useable, and RELIABLE instead?

 

[deVries]

So what do you guys advise? I've been saving $ for some time. The Opti 1100 seems to offer what I'm looking for: ready to ride, buttoned up and water resistant, decent but obviously not Luke-esque power. ...

Mdd- love you shop. Maybe I'll spend my $ on tools instead of a bike. Love the computerized mill. Are there good resources to guide learning to use this stuff?

I think Mdd0127 bike is a very good buy unless you require rear suspension. It has quality components, and he could upgrade or make something custom you might need. Make him an offer if you're in the USA. I think Mdd will take an offer between 2k-3k +shipping, which is the same price as a regular bicycle with higher quality components. Some guy had a Stealth in the For Sale section from OR, but I think that is about four-x+ the price of Mdd's bike. Mdd could use the money too, seriously, so you'd be helping him in a time of financial need too. If you have the money for an Opti, then you can afford a much lower cost Mdd-eBike even with some custom upgrades.

(Of course, you realize Luke's bike is *not* for single track riding whatsoever.)

Let us know what you decide to do...

 

[mdd0127]

I've sent him all of the info and even offered to transfer the drive components to a full suspension downhill frame so the options are definitely all out there.

Thanks for the support!