Fried battery charger?

[Learning Curve]

I have a 15 amp 36 volt Ping battery and charger that I got less than a year ago, and I have been really happy with it, but yesterday something seems to have gone wrong.

I plugged in the battery to charge it and the charger seemed to be running normally. There is a red light that comes on showing it is powered up, a green light that comes on for a few seconds, which then turns red once the charging begins, and a fan comes on during the charging process. After about 3 hours the battery gets full, one of the lights turns green and stays green and the fan shuts off. The red lights attached to the battery pack all come on until it is unplugged from the charger for a few minutes. Then they go off.

I got distracted and wasn't paying attention to the charging process this time, and when I came to check on it after about 3 hours, the red light was on but the light that is normally green was clear white, the fan was not running, and none of the lights in the battery pack were on. The charger was quite warm. ( it was charging outside at about 45 degrees F) and sniffing it, it has a smell of electronics that have over heated and maybe burned a bit, though I don't see anything that look burnt.

My battery was only 2/3 used up when I began charging it, so I took it for a short ride today, and the battery seems to still work as usual.

But when I tried to charge it again, the chargers red light came on, and the green light briefly, but then the green light just went out completely. Not replaced by the red light and fan that usually comes on. Or the clear white light that was on yesterday when I noticed something was strange. When I plug the charger in to the wall, not connected to the battery, the red and green light comes on, and the green light stays on.

I have been really gentle with the charger and battery, but maybe a spider crawled in there and created a problem? There is quite a few spiders out in the shed... Or is this possibly something else?

Am I right in thinking the problem is a fried battery charger, is my battery still OK, and is it safe to assume a new charger will solve the problem?

 

[amberwolf]

Well, if the fan stopped spinning for whatever reason, the charger would probably overheat if it was still in the high-current phase.

Unlikely scenario:
If the fan itself is an intake fan (rather than exhaust) and has a thermal sensor in it, or the thermal sensor is in a place that is cooled by the outside temperature enough to keep it below the point at which it would normally spin, maybe the fan started and then shut down cuz it thought it was cool enough to run without it, and then the rest of the unit began to heat up? If it has a latching-off circuit then it'd stay off after that even though the unit heats up.

Again, it's an unlikely scenario; just a thought.



If you're interested in testing the charger out, or fixing it, you could look up the various Ping battery / charger repair threads. I expect many of them have posts from dnmun in them, so you could look thru his posts for threads about that, might make it easier to find.

 

[Learning Curve]

Thanks for the thoughts Amber Wolf.

I have charged the battery at this temperature many times, so it seems unlikely a sensor switched off the fan because of the cool air. + 45 f is cool but not really cold!?

I have been reading through the posts on Ping chargers and it sounds like they are more prone to problems than the batteries.

I emailed Ping with a description of the problem, and will see what he says before taking the charger apart. I am curious if I could see anything that would cause the burnt smell, but fixing something beyond a really basic loose wire is going to be way way way beyond my technical ability.

Mainly I just want to be sure the problem is in the charger, before I replace the charger.

 

[999zip999]

Do you have multi meter or volt meter ? Put on right voltage and check charger for proper voltage. About 43 or 44 volts.
Check the fuse.

 

[Learning Curve]

I don't have any way to measure what is going on with the voltage. My understanding of stuff like this is really basic, at best.

I did unscrew the fuse. It looks like a clear tube with a very thin filament. Nothing burnt in there that I could see. What would it look like if it was blown, and would the charger lights still come on as normal when it was plugged into but not connected to the battery, if a fuse was blown?

As soon as I am sure the problem is just the charger, I will just buy another one.... I don't want to leave my battery sit with an unknown amount of partial charge for too long.

 

[999zip999]

Sooner then later you need a multi meter.
You can get a cheap multi meter at harbour freight for 6.00usd a must for ebike. Just put it on the right setting before using. Borrow one. The Fuse most times will have the wire inside melted and sometimes you can't tell by looking.

 

[Learning Curve]

Thanks for the suggestion ZIP

I don't think we have Harbor Freight here in Canada, but I will get a multimeter off Ebay or Amazon.

Ping was very helpful (as usual) and got back to me offering to help me figure out the problem. He also suggested I need a multimeter.

And I ordered a new charger as I need to be able to use my bike ASAP and the problem is probably just the charger, as the bike seems to still run fine after the charging malfunction, although I only rode it a mile or so...

Hopefully a new charger will solve the problem, and if I can fix the old one then I will have a back up...

 

[999zip999]

Make sure it's for lifepo4. I had good luck with Ping chargers I think most are kingpan. Plus need a multi meter to check polarity before hooking up to battery. Don't trust know.

 

[Learning Curve]

Thanks for the warnings Zip...

Sounds like you have noticed I don't know much... But I did order the right replacement charger, and Ping's connections are very easy to understand....even for me! (Which says a lot)

I took a picture of the inside of the charger. I don't remember what it is supposed to look like inside, but I am wondering if the globs of white stuff is something that melted? Or is it supposed to look like that?

 

[999zip999]

White stuff is anti vibration goo. So you went with ping ? Because china or eBay can reverse polarity on a plug. I must know. Like I put sense wires on my Ping just to know. That's after I had to open her up not before.

 

[Learning Curve]

Thanks for letting me know what the white stuff is!

Ping's batteries and customer service) have a really excellent reputation (and in my experience this is well deserved)

So I trust the new charger I get from him will be set up to work with the battery I got from him and the electrical system in North America. I also trust him to send me the right plugs to charge his batteries, much much more than my own ability to decide if all the wiring is set up correctly... I would only be slightly smarter than a chimpanzee with a multimeter...

As for the old charger, I have used it for almost a year, with no problem, so whatever has gone wrong would probably not be in the initial set up of how it is wired having the polarities reversed... At least not as far as I understand.

But thanks for the warnings, and if I ever start combining my Ping battery with other charging systems, I will take your advise and double check sure the polarities are set up as I am assuming!

 

[mark.curry3]

I'm looking at a similar issue. I just got a new lifepo4 and charger the charger blew the minute I plugged it in to the bms. It seems as if the charger and the input for my BMs do not match up the polarity is there something I can do to place an adapter to swap the polarity if the next charger I get has the same wiring

 

[amberwolf]

I see the BMS has an AC cord-accepting plug, making it really easy to plug it directly into a wall socket via any standard AC cord--which would probably damage something in the BMS.

What does the charger and it's cords look like?


Assuming a reversal is at fault:

If it's reversed inside the BMS, it should be easy enough to flip the wires around and resolder. Use a multimeter to check if black is - and red is +. If they are, then you'd need to measure or trace where those go on that AC-cord-style plug, and then measure or trace where the charger wires go, before plugging a new charger into the BMS.

If it's reversed inside the charger, then as long as A) there's no damage to the BMS, and B) a new charger is wired correctly vs the BMS (you'd need to check that before plugging the new one in), then there's nothing to worry about. (unless you wanna fix the old charger, which might be very easy).

 

[mark.curry3]

The plug is a quote unquote house plug or C 13 female. I have another bike using a similar charger and the BMS leads coming out of that I seem to be reversed from the one that I have an issue with. I don't think the charger I have is recoverable as the output is 4.2 or 3.6 volts. If the new charger has the same polarity I will use the charger port on the bike and reverse the polarity on those terminals to match up with th. BMS for the bike

 

[e-beach]

My $200 dollar Kingpan charger burned out after about 1 year of service and it was the switch that changed from 110v AC to 220v AC. The fan on mine stopped working as well when that happened. I was charging at work and my coworkers noticed smoke and a smell.

First read this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59291

What is the model of your charger?

Do you want to try to fix your old charger? If so.......

Step 1: With your charger unplugged, take the top screws out of the charger side panels to take the top off the charger. Are there 4 screws on the top of the side panels? 2 on each side? Take them out and don't loose them. Put them in a container like a plastic coffee cup so you don't loose them.

Step 2: With one hand on the bottom and one hand on the top, squeeze the sides of the charger inwards so you can pull the top off the charger. The bottom hand squeezes the sides while the top hand pulls the top off.

Step 3: Take a clear and detailed picture of the whole charger with the top off. Post it so we can use it to help you do some testing with your new multi-meter.

 

[Learning Curve]

Thanks for the offer of help fixing the old charger e-beach, but that sounds like it may be a project to do with my son, when he visits, as he has a lot better technical skills than his aging Mom...



So, I got the new charger from Ping today. Without being asked he was kind enough to include 2 extra fuses and an extra plug if I ever need to replace the one that sits closest to the battery. A couple days ago I used a multimeter to see how many volts the battery had and it showed 39.5 for the whole 36 volt pack

Once it was all plugged in it seemed to be charging normally. So the complete lack of action from the other charger does seem to be a problem with the charger.

But after less than an hour I noticed all 12 of the red BMS lights had come on, and after another 1/2 hour they were all still on and the charger was still charging away and not cycling off to the green light and then back to the red light as it normally does towards the end of it's charge cycle.

I normally charge the battery in a box where I can't easily see the lights, so I am not sure if all the lights usually come on quite a while before the battery finishes charging and balancing. But I seem to remember the first time I charged it the BMS lights all came on and very soon after the charger started showing the green light and turning itself off.

After 1/2 an hour and no cycle to the green light at all, I was getting concerned that this might have been the problem that caused my last charger to fry, so I unplugged it. And now all the BMS lights have gone off like they should.

So... does anyone with a Ping battery know how long the charger should keep running with the 2 red lights and no green light after all the red BMS lights are lit up?

Is it safe to let the battery just keep charging with all the BMS lights on until the charger decides it is time to stop? Or is there sometimes a communication problem between the battery and charger and the charger doesn't know when to turn itself off?

 

[999zip999]

With new charger check polarity.
Check polarity of battery.
Check voltage of charger before hooking up about 44.4volts maybe a little lower.
Now plug charger into wall then battery.
Please post voltage of charger.

 

[999zip999]

The charger should shut off but need voltage of charger and battery.
Need charger voltage then we talk.

 

[Learning Curve]

Zip, I appreciate you being willing to help me figure this out, but my technical skills are really limited. And I am scared of anything to do with poking into electricity. Which probably isn't a bad thing as I barely have a clue what I am doing. If I have to, I will learn, but waiting to poke around inside electrical stuff with my son next time he visits, is how I would prefer to do this. Because he knows enough not to electrocute himself...

So I was just hoping someone here who has a Ping battery could tell me how long the charger normally keeps running with no green light at all, after all the BMS lights are on....

Because hopefully there is no problem and it is not unusual for all 12 BMS lights to be on for a half an hour or longer before the charger starts cycling on and off.. sometimes showing the green light ???

If everything is working as it should be, then I don't have to poke anything to find out the voltages.

Which would be nice....

And I trust Ping to have sent me a battery charger for the batteries he makes that doesn't have a problem with the polarity...

 

[999zip999]

Hang in there we are working on a learning curve. Do you have a multi meter ?
This is most important to answering your question. As I don't want you leaving.it on the charger and walk away.


The bms is there to shut off the charger after one cell reaches 3.8v. The bms bleeds the high cells down and the charger turns on to fill up the next high turns off the charger and the bms bleeds down the high cells to the little last duck comes up to 3.7 to 3.8v. With red leds on it is bleeding down and most all leds turn off. Sometimes it takes 24hour if out of balance. The bleed circuit is low so is slow.
Li ping is A1 for support and he has a place in my heart. A stand up Man.
What are you using the with ?

 

[Learning Curve]

Yes I got a multimeter.

Before I got the new charger, and charged the pack with it, the battery pack had a voltage of 39.5 volts

But for now, I just want to know, on a Ping battery, how long before the battery pack is finished charging, do all the BMS lights usually come on?

 

[999zip999]

Yes

 

[999zip999]

Now set the multi meter on dc on a higher voltage then battery 50volts or more then give to Me the charger voltage and post.
This will tell if I tell you to plug it in for overnight.
Hell I'm a need to know guy. As after I had used my 48v 20ah ping with a 40amp controller. As you know it the controller that demands from the battery not the motor. A 48v 20ah is for a 22amp controller.
After I open the ping I added a set of sense wires to monitor each cell with a cellog. This is the only way to know the true state of charge or probing the white bms plug. But must very careful not to cross probes.

 

[Learning Curve]

Well I did get brave enough to check my batteries voltage again with the multimeter...

It is now 41.2, so if each cell should be at 3.7 to 3.8 it seems like all the BMS lights came on and stayed on a long time before it was fully charged.

Meaning it was probably not overcharging.

But I am still not sure if it is normal for the BMS lights to all come on and stay on when the battery needs this much more charging?

Um, but maybe the post that just said

Yes

was the answer to this question..

?

And... Nope I am not poking the mutimeter probes into anything plugged into my wall without really knowing what I am doing! And I really don't...

 

[e-beach]

Thanks for the offer of help fixing the old charger e-beach, but that sounds like it may be a project to do with my son, when he visits, as he has a lot better technical skills than his aging Mom...

Ok, Just let me know. :wink:

Is it safe to let the battery just keep charging with all the BMS lights on until the charger decides it is time to stop? Or is there sometimes a communication problem between the battery and charger and the charger doesn't know when to turn itself off?

Yes it is safe to let your battery charge for a long time. For days if you don't mind. It will find it's highest voltage with the new charger. Keep an eye on it though.