Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive

[amberwolf]

Ok, so a year later, the house is fixed up and I'm finally moved back in, and have located most of the parts for this in the stuff that was left after all the things that happened between then and now.

Since CrazyBike2 is in even worse shape now than it was last year this time hwen I was *already* about to replace it with this one, I am now working on this bike as seriously as I can.


There are going to be some frame changes, to more easily accomodate batteries, etc., within the frame. I will almost certainly be cutting the crankshaft for the pedals and widening it a lot, so that the chainline can mroe easily go around hte battery boxes inside the frame.

Those boxes will be old-style 50-cal ammocans, one of which contains an EM3EV A123 pack, bought used from Rollodo here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=825399#p825399 with some of the rebuilding-funds from ES members (basically replacing the stolen-during-house-repairs LiFePO4 CammyCC pack). IIRC it nets me about 25 miles or so. The ohter contains an experimental EIG NMC pack that's a little higher voltage, which IIRC nets me about 30-35 miles or so. Then there is a third pack I could put in, much smaller, in a 7.62 ammocan, an RC LiPo pack thats about 10-15 miles worth.

So there'll be a hinged cover to allow access to get to those, on the non-chain side. But it does require widening the crankshaft so that I can actually put *both* the big packs in the central frame, and still be able to pedal if I have to for any reason. Originally I was going to keep crank width the same, and just run the chain up and around the whole frame, but that still means a circle the size of the cranks/feet that can't be used for battery/etc, due to the narrowness of disance between them. If I widen the shaft then hte cranks are farther out, too, and I won't have to worry about it.

The complication wih this is that the BB shell will have to be cut and widened too, which means it will probably warp in hte process. So...I may just use TWO BB shells end to end, and not actually weld them together more than just spots, leaving htem attached to their respective seatposts, and then weld the *seatposts) together via cross members. This solves another problem, too, though, or at least helps with it--that of "boxing" the whole core frame of the bike, to allow horizontal triangulation of the front section as well as vertical, to reduce twisting forces on the frame which cause chain misalignment, wiggle, etc., which were problems on CrazyBIke2.


So it would look more like this:


where dark green is the frame, red is steerin stuff (USS), black is tires and drivetrain (motor/nuvinci), purple is seat, pink is fork and swingarm, etc. Still using hte motorcycle shock on the rear, probalby the white forks just above up front.

Cargo pods or racks or whatever can go on the frame rails as needed. Will have a truck-type ball-hitch for the trailer at the back end of hte frame behind the wheel.



Am also open for suggestions as to what would be better than the above, given the limitations of what I need this for, and what I have here to make it out of, etc.


Most likely it'll end up with a 24" or 26" front wheel with a small geared hubmotor in it (like the fusin "1000w" off delta tripper) as an emergency backup motor, though I'm not sure yet. I don't want to put a motor in the back wheel itself ccuz that's part of what has destroyed so many wheels on crazybike2--the extra weight plus no suspension, though this one *will* have rear suspension.

Not sure about the USS either, cuz I'm used to the regular handlebars and I shoudl still have another set of them somewhere so I don't have to hack up delta tripper or crazybike2 for them. But I'm curious to see how well USS works for me, as I wnated to use that in the first 'bent, ReCycle, that I never finished, back before I did any of these other ebikes. I may even use the actual bars I made for that bike on this one, if I still have htem.


Motor....still debating on what mtoro to use but want to try out that BLDC powerchair motor first. It's just gotta be at least as good as any of these hubmotors would be for this type of power, and its' WAY easier to mount on the biek to use like this.

Controller...I have a few 12FETs and a couple of 18FETs. I wish I had a sinewave controller, though, so I could make this thing nearly silent.

 

[amberwolf]

I've been thinking (dangerous, I know) and am wondering if simply using what amounts to two parallel bike frames all the way up to the front including the fork would make sense. If I spread the front triangles *away* from each other, it would make a sort of narrow tadpole, using a pair of identical suspension forks.

But that would make leaning into turns problematic, even with the travel of the suspension, as that wouldn't be much.

So...I might have to poke thru the pics of the various narrow-wheelbase leaning trikes in threads around here, and see which of their mechanics I might be able to imitate with what I have laying around.

I also considered doing it with leaning *delta* instead, as I have an idea for that I'd like to try out, too (I think that's detailed in the Loooooooongbike thread). Since cargo and weight is greater in the rear, it would be better to hold that up than doing two wheels in front. Catch with that is it reduces the amount of width I can dedicate to cargo between the wheels...but it also could increase it an inch or two, because it means I don't need two pods, just one, and that takes out an entire wall and insulation thickness (since I use thick styrofoam insulation to carry cold stuff here in Phoenix).


Trade-offs...gotta decide so I can build something.




I guess the simplest thing to do is just to build it as a bike like I drew up above, and then if that works out, build these other versions as new frames to try out ideas and incorporate fixes to problems I encounter with the bike frame.

 

[amberwolf]

Found more of the parts for this in the sheds yesterday while cleanin gup other stuff. So now I hve the rear (suzuki) shock, suzuki disk brakes, etc., and the metal sheathing for some of the wiring, some mroe of the square tubing to build it from, etc.

I also got a (used, scratched) motorcycle windshield from Bill, which I may try to find a way to work into the design.

For now have decided to continue buildng this as a bicycle, as it is simpler and will get me going quicker. It'll still have the "parallel frame" design for strength/antitwist.

Then later I can either rebuild it or more likley build a new one that'll be a trike.

Possibly I could build a fork unit that is a tilting mechanism/steering/etc, like the add-ons that have been posted aobut here on ES in a few places. (don't have a link just now).

 

[amberwolf]

Am seriously considering using the front fork and headtube off the 80's Suzuki dirtbike, lacing up the MC hub (which would let me use it's hydraulic disc brake!) into a smaller lighter moped rim. That would preclude being able to use a front hub motor as backup drive (or front regen braking), but it would certainly give me much better front end suspension and support, and braking would probalby be better and more reliable than the bicycle rim brakes.

Or I could use the ex-Zero 20" rim for the front wheel, laced to the Suzuki hub.... (I have a pair of those rims, one for hte rear and could use it for the front too, I guess).


I'd also probably end up using hte whole front triangle off the motorcycle frame that way, which while it would make the frame heavier, it might be stiffer than if I used "twinned" frames to either side of the headtube, with triangulation between them, etc. Not even sure it would be any heavier than doing it htat way, either.


Still would use twinned frames with triangulation for the frame behind that part, to keep it from being able to twist.

 

[amberwolf]

Since the weather was supposed to be nice and I got most of the yardwork/etc that *had* to be done yesterday before work, I was going to be working on the new bike today, but it has been so windy and gusty that I can't do much outside work like that. Cutting things is hard cuz the gusts kick up dirt and dust that makes it hard ot see (and sometimes hard to breathe). Welding is even harder for similar reasons, plus the helmet keeps getting blown about, blown off my head a couple times.

Spent a little bit digging thru the sheds for some more stuff, but didn't get very far cuz the wind and dust.

Stared at the Suzuki frame for a while, and decided I need to dig it and it's swingarm and forks and wheels out (they're all in different sheds, I think; not really sure).

More unrelated stuff over in the housefire updates thread.

 

[amberwolf]

Not too windy today, a little hot. May actually get some work on this done when I get back from wifi/dogfood/grocery/etc run this afternoon. (had yardwork and dog-entertaining to do this morning, so didn't get to start yet).

 

[amberwolf]

Didn't get much done, just pulled more parts out of the shed. Tried to get the transmission off the Suzuki frame so I could decide what to do with the frame itself, but cant' get several of the mounting bolts loosened. I'll prbably have to cut the mounts off.

Took all the bits off the fork that arent' needed, and moved the clamps down almost a foot. This fork weighs so much I am not sure I want to use it, but it really would give me a strong front end with really good suspension and braking (assuming I relace the MC hub into a smaller wheel and can get the old hydraulic disc brakes working again).

 

[amberwolf]

I am definitely looking for input on this project from the rest of ES, if anyone is still reading this thread.



I've almost decided to go ahead with using the headtube and forks off the Suzuki, and build a 1"-square-tubing boxed-frame for the rest of the bike, including the cargo pod rails that would stick out past the rear wheel as a cage around it.

Given that the actual tubing I have here to use isn't great stiff steel, I may have to do more triangulation than otherwise, since it was orignally from old retail signage and therefore probably isn't nearly as tough as the stuff I used for just the cargo pod rails on CrazyBike2 (which have so far survived without bending or cracking, with the exception of the right one being slighly bent at a bolt-hole in the crash that fractured my ankle in Death Race 2011 :lol.


But maybe i can use the smaller 1/2" square tubing for some of the horizontal triangulation instead of the 1" stuff, and save a little weight?

I'd guess the vertical triangulation should still be 1" so the walls all line up and transfer loads better?


Maybe i ought to look into finding loading/stress simulation software and learn how to build the bike frame in that first? :/

 

[regmeister]

Glad to see you back building. I look forward to following along with your build.

I nearly bought a Nuvinci during the deal, but knew I wouldn't have the time. I still need to get back to repairing and properly maintaing batteries etc. Just the basics first.

 

[amberwolf]

It's good to be back to where I *can* start doing big projects.


Since this bike will also need turn signals, tail/brake lights, etc, and I don't have enough of them, then I will end up using hte ones off of Delta Tripper because those still have the mounting stuff on them for a motorcycle, so I can clamp the front ones onto the fork, and the rear ones bolt to the cargo rails or seat frame.

I was going to move them off of CrazyBike2 but those are getting very old and beginning to fall apart (were already abused from early 1980's originally, and have been thru a lot since I got them too), and they're plastic. At least most of the DT ones' housings are metal.


But I won't be using the incandescent bulbs in there anymore--I'll be using LED stuff. Naturally they won't be *made* for that purpose, but rather will be some aquarium bulbs misused instead.

At my work they deep-clearanced two pair of Fluval MR-16-like (smaller?) LED bulbs for the EDGE tanks, designed to replace the halogen type they came with. They're a bunch of smaller LEDs in an array inside, which is good for more distributed diffuse lighting, rather htan a single bright spot of light inside the housing--that makes it light up the turn signal lens more like the incandescent did, as opposed to how the MR-16 spots I have inside CB2's turn signals make a single very bright spot in the middle, and barely light up any of hte rest of the lens.

The biggger the light is, the easier it is for others to see on the road (brighter also works but bigger and more diffuse is better because brighter yet point source tends to just blind at night instead).


On the pic showing htem on the bike, the one on the far left is the new one, and hte one next to the tailight is the original.





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The headlight...that's another story. I haven't figured out the housing yet, and I may end up making one from "scratch", repurposing *something* for it, but using either some LEDs or a pair of automotive replacment headlight bulbs in it, and have it project that light onto the road. If I could drill thru the glass of the headlights I already have, I'd use those for the projector/reflector, with the light coming in from the bottom and a half-domelike mirror reflecting it onto the rest of the reflector.

At first I may well just use the automotive headlights I already have, like on CB2 and DT. But given that I'm building the whole rest of this up custom I might as well do the light at the same time, if I can, since I also want ot put partial fairings on it to keep direct sunlight and what little rain we have off the electronics/batteries, and for a little better aerodynamics if possible (probably wont' really help with that at the low speeds I use).


BTW, this bike may actually end up "pretty", instead of deliberately uglified, just as the one project to show I *can* build nice things if I want to. :lol:

 

[amberwolf]

Am still digging htru the sheds for hte Suzuki's wheels, so I can see if the hubs/spokes/etc can be used with the ex-Zero rims from Ypedal.


Am also sitll pondering the design of the frame.


Given the heat of summer, time limitations, etc., this build is gonna take a while longer to do than i expected, I think. Still waffling back and forth between buildng the super heavy duty one, and just fixing up either CB2's existing frame a little, or building the original already-started replacement frame up the rest of the way. :?

I think my brain is melted.

 

[Solcar]

I think pondering is better than falling to the feeling of too much pressure to build the new bike, resulting in using up a lot of parts and time, and getting an outcome that isn't satisfying.

I recall my neighbor talking about how Nordic Track or some place like that decided to build regular bikes for outside riding. The frames weren't metal of sufficient quality and/or the welding and frame member joints weren't good enough and the frames kept breaking.

 

[amberwolf]

Stuff kinda happened again in the intervening months (added another dog, Yogi, amongst other eaters of time).

Ended up for now going with frame upgrades to CrazyBIke2, whcih have worked out ok so far in teh couple months of testing since then.

Still wanna make this much stiffer frame, try out the powerchair/nuvinci middrive, etc.

 

[Harold in CR]

Mornin AW.

I should have a cut off front section of a lighter duty (chinese-India) motorcycle come Tuesday or so to my house. I will be making up a new frame for the rocky road I have to negotiate, before I reach the pavement. As I cut away part of the cut off frame from the headpost, I will take photos, and, maybe we can share thoughts on how to build lighter, stronger frames with some moto parts. I will be looking for regular steel tubing in my area, so, let me get going and draw up some stuff.

Mine won,t be as long as yours, but, With the Nissan Leaf cells, (I would like to get 5 more modules), OR a Chevy Volt battery that I am trying to buy in the states, I will need a strong frame because of my wife riding behind me. I have 14" Moped wheels with drum brakes, but, the aluminum- pot metal brake assemblies are questionable.

I may be going to Florida very soon, and will turn down some aluminum stock to press into the hubs for stiffness, and to mount disc brakes. I'm hoping to build a 2 wheel leaner, also, so, will see where I get in due time. If I can work a deal with John, I want to get a hub monster for the reverse leaner build.