GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

[spinningmagnets]

You are much appreciated my friend !

Denisesewa, if you consider yourself to be my friend...then I consider myself to be a lucky E-biker indeed. I thank YOU for your helpful experiments and posted data!

Do you think you might make it to "Interbike 2014" in September/Las Vegas? I am anxious to meet Justin in person, along with any other ES member that might be able to show up!

 

[Denisesewa]

You are much appreciated my friend !

Denisesewa, if you consider yourself to be my friend...then I consider myself to be a lucky E-biker indeed. I thank YOU for your helpful experiments and posted data!

Do you think you might make it to "Interbike 2014" in September/Las Vegas? I am anxious to meet Justin in person, along with any other ES member that might be able to show up!

Ha, A year away is to far away to make plans, You never know though.

 

[Wishes]

I have a problem with the trottle that came with the GNG. The reaction of the trottle is to nervous.
Anybody a good advise for a replacement?

The stock throttle that comes with the kit is known to have a lot of dead space in it. So you twist, nothing happens, keep twisting and all of a sudden power kicks in. It is not too bad with the stock controller and stock power levels. You can get used to it and compensate. But when you start cranking up the power levels, that twitchy throttle can be problematic.

I also tried the stock throttle with my first Lyen controller and it was horrible. I shredded a few belts because of the twitchy stock throttle. The Magura throttle mod that has been documented works very well with the Lyen controllers. It made a day and night difference when I switched. The throttle is so smooth now.

Wishes

 

[LightningRods]

More on the 1.37" vs. 1.375" saga. I wrote to ACS, White Industries, BikeMotive (they have a BB freewheel kit using the ACS) and Sick Bike Parts that sells the W-I HD flanged freewheel.

ACS: "1.370 is the "English" standard. 1.375 is the conversion of the closest metric thread, which is now "standard" on all bikes out of Asia.
The 0.005 (0.127 mm), is acceptably close, and they've been mixed & matched for years as suppliers change."

Sick Bike Parts: "That is what size it is [1.375"], we just left the .005 off."

Bike Motive: "Great questions. The 1.37 & 1.375 are the same, with the former spec showing less precision, probably just as a shorthand. Yes the White freewheels fit great, as does every other brand we've tried."

This backs up what Denisewa and SpeedMD said and makes it seem like Trialtech was taking something they didn't understand much too seriously. If I hear similar stories from W-I and ACS I'll just order parts and stop thinking about it.

I was hoping to be able to do partial upgrades on the GNG BB for people on a budget but it's looking pretty hopeless. Everyone else's parts interchange just fine but the GNG crank arm threads are too sloppy to thread a standard freewheel onto without stripping. I'm buying some of the Cyclone ISIS crank sets. I hope their QC is better GNG's. For people using their GNGs on the street or for light off road BikeMotive has a square taper spindle kit similar to the GNG only well made.

My thanks to all of the generous, knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum.

Edit: Response from ACS added.

 

[Secret1511]

I have a problem with the trottle that came with the GNG. The reaction of the trottle is to nervous.
Anybody a good advise for a replacement?

The stock throttle that comes with the kit is known to have a lot of dead space in it. So you twist, nothing happens, keep twisting and all of a sudden power kicks in. It is not too bad with the stock controller and stock power levels. You can get used to it and compensate. But when you start cranking up the power levels, that twitchy throttle can be problematic.

I also tried the stock throttle with my first Lyen controller and it was horrible. I shredded a few belts because of the twitchy stock throttle. The Magura throttle mod that has been documented works very well with the Lyen controllers. It made a day and night difference when I switched. The throttle is so smooth now.

Wishes

Ok thanks! Magura it is. I will order one! The stock one is to dangerous at 4kw. Standing on the paddles is like ridding a bull.

 

[jimnasium]

Not sure if this will help in your situation, Secret1511, but the CycleAnalyst can be programmed to smooth out some of the dead spots in the throttle. It can also be programmed to limit the ramp of the throttle signal.

 

[jimnasium]

Folks, thank you all for inspiring me to put together my first build. I chose the kit, which afaik is the same as the GNG, from Albert Wong @ middriveebike.com since he was very helpful with email support. Even at 48V @ 18A, It really hauls and gets me up the steepest hills here in San Francisco.
The problem is that it also really howls under load, which really detracts from the riding experience. And it's certainly not "stealth", as you can hear me coming from a block away. I'm guessing that it's the belt drive, or some part of it like the tensioning wheel or jackshaft? Any way to pinpoint the problem? Would using the LightningRods upper sheets to straighten out the belt drive help?
Thanks in advance. Jim

 

[skyungjae]

Folks, thank you all for inspiring me to put together my first build. I chose the kit, which afaik is the same as the GNG, from Albert Wong @ middriveebike.com since he was very helpful with email support. Even at 48V @ 18A, It really hauls and gets me up the steepest hills here in San Francisco.
The problem is that it also really howls under load, which really detracts from the riding experience. And it's certainly not "stealth", as you can hear me coming from a block away. I'm guessing that it's the belt drive, or some part of it like the tensioning wheel or jackshaft? Any way to pinpoint the problem? Would using the LightningRods upper sheets to straighten out the belt drive help?
Thanks in advance. Jim

It shouldn't be making much sound even under full load with the standard belt drive components. I know this is asking a lot, but a video would be really helpful in this situation.

 

[Secret1511]

Not sure if this will help in your situation, Secret1511, but the CycleAnalyst can be programmed to smooth out some of the dead spots in the throttle. It can also be programmed to limit the ramp of the throttle signal.

Thank for your advise. I will look in to it.

 

[Secret1511]

Folks, thank you all for inspiring me to put together my first build. I chose the kit, which afaik is the same as the GNG, from Albert Wong @ middriveebike.com since he was very helpful with email support. Even at 48V @ 18A, It really hauls and gets me up the steepest hills here in San Francisco.
The problem is that it also really howls under load, which really detracts from the riding experience. And it's certainly not "stealth", as you can hear me coming from a block away. I'm guessing that it's the belt drive, or some part of it like the tensioning wheel or jackshaft? Any way to pinpoint the problem? Would using the LightningRods upper sheets to straighten out the belt drive help?
Thanks in advance. Jim

I did a chain mod. But that is far far far from stealth. The belt drive makes a lot less noise.
Maybe it's a phase wire problem?

 

[jimnasium]

The problem is that it also really howls under load, which really detracts from the riding experience. And it's certainly not "stealth", as you can hear me coming from a block away. I'm guessing that it's the belt drive, or some part of it like the tensioning wheel or jackshaft? Any way to pinpoint the problem? Would using the LightningRods upper sheets to straighten out the belt drive help?
Thanks in advance. Jim

It shouldn't be making much sound even under full load with the standard belt drive components. I know this is asking a lot, but a video would be really helpful in this situation.

Let me work on that

 

[E-Norco]

Not sure if this will help in your situation, Secret1511, but the CycleAnalyst can be programmed to smooth out some of the dead spots in the throttle. It can also be programmed to limit the ramp of the throttle signal.

But it's not so easy to find good settings. I am still testing a lot. I use Magura Throttle, 9FET Lyen, Cycle Analyst V3 at 18s 2P Lipo. If anybody has reference points from a similar setup please let me know. Thank's in advace!

 

[jimnasium]

The problem is that it also really howls under load,

It shouldn't be making much sound even under full load with the standard belt drive components. I know this is asking a lot, but a video would be really helpful in this situation.

Let me work on that

Ah problem solved! The tip of the triangular metal bracket that overlaps the pulley was bent and rubbing against the pulley (see attached pic). A little pry and problem solved!

 

[edoug]

I had the same problem. My was so bad it shear some of the sprocket.

 

[skyungjae]

Awesome, I think most of us had that same problem and had to adjust that guard thingy.

 

[SolarRay]

But that is far far far from stealth.

Replacement sprockets from 11 to 12 or 13 does not help?

 

[Secret1511]

But that is far far far from stealth.

Replacement sprockets from 11 to 12 or 13 does not help?

Hi SolarRay,

Yes that is the first change i am going to make. I think a 12T will do the trick.
But also the motor screams out loud under 4kw load

 

[LightningRods]

The long awaited Big Block finally arrived from China today.

It's the exact same diameter as the GNG motor with the same end cases. The sucker weighs FIVE KILOGRAMS and most of that additional weight is magnets and copper windings. The stock GNG is about 2.7 kilograms. So we're talking about nearly twice the motor.

When I got the plastic fan cover off I was pretty disappointed. The motor case is not ported and the 'fan' blades are really just paddles. This pretty much looks like put a real fan on the shaft or cut the shaft short and put a closed case on it.

Look at the difference in those phase wires! That tells you something about power output.

It took me four weeks and three tries to get the order to go through. Shipping took almost two weeks after spending about $140. These are hard to get but it looks like it's going to be amazing. This one is going on a one-off FS bike with 100mm BB that Kin Fong and I are building.

 

[full-throttle]

That looks promising
What's the Kv?

 

[Denisesewa]

How much battery are you going to be able to carry? the power would be really nice but the weight tradeoff may not payoff, I kinda like the agility of these light weight " motorcycles" we've created , Cant wait to see what you come up with though.

 

[LightningRods]

It wasn't by accident that I called this a 'big block'. This is an old argument in car circles. More power and more weight or light weight and nimble. The big benefit of the big block is going to be for people pushing the small block up to and beyond it's limits. This beast is going to take those power levels and more.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Looks like somebody brought some more cowbell...

 

[2020freerider]

It wasn't by accident that I called this a 'big block'. This is an old argument in car circles. More power and more weight or light weight and nimble. The big benefit of the big block is going to be for people pushing the small block up to and beyond it's limits. This beast is going to take those power levels and more.

Wow LR!

It'll be great when you have that mounted and can provide some performance data.

Cheers

 

[full-throttle]

the power would be really nice but the weight tradeoff may not payoff, I kinda like the agility of these light weight " motorcycles" we've created

Lighter is always better. In this case though the motor will be able to deliver ~ 2x the torque, so the reductions can be simplified or even omitted if driving the rear wheel directly.

With better end-turn ratio the motor will also be more efficient.

 

[Tinto]

Without an angled blade, what part of the motor would those paddles actually be cooling?
Seems like an odd design, but was the inside of that case profiled in any meaningful way?
Maybe this is expecting incoming airflow from a particular direction(?) and this is more about creating turbulence than airflow through a space.