GNG Ultralight RC Mid Drive with Bluetooth control

[dirkdiggler]

Most motors that 50mm size have an 8mm or 6mm shaft and kV from 160 to 250 or so. The Chinese have been making similar motors for electric skateboards the past years with hall sensors. It will be neat to see other products like this. Those motors are around $60. Could be fun just blowing them up. Technically you could get 2400 watts out of them. Would be great for a super light weight 29er hardtail.

 

[spinningmagnets]

If there is any way that you could splice a 63mm motor onto that gearbox, I highly recommend it. More torque per the same input watts, and can take more heat. Also need a shaft-mounted fan for pulling air through the can. Every little bit helps.

Even if you don't raise the input watts, a bigger motor will run cooler than a 50mm.

Wooden fan from Thud, to make plug for mold and casting.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/tmoto/media/P6030047.jpg.html

 

[Storapa]

Hi Folks.

I don't know much about these motors, as I've only worked with hub motors, but the outside of the motor spins (the silver bit). Is it still an in-runner?

 

[parabellum]

Hi Folks.

I don't know much about these motors, as I've only worked with hub motors, but the outside of the motor spins (the silver bit). Is it still an in-runner?

Nope, it is an out-runner. It looks like there is no airflow holes on the end cap, for the windings. The other side is also not made to let air in, fans will not work probably, without mayor rework.

 

[spinningmagnets]

https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1

This might help...

 

[Ecyclist]

OK, so it is 50mm outrunner. Now I wonder why this motor is not ventilated. That's what threw me off in the first place.
Is 300W enough to make this motor nice and toasty inside?

 

[robocam]

So is it about 2.5 lbs lighter than a Cyclone Mini? If it is, it seems like you're losing a lot of power for the amount of weight lost. I want to hear what this thing sounds like. Is it anything like the super-quiet BBSHD? Please post some videos =) I want a super light and quiet mid drive for my carbon Enduro 29!

The kit arrived today. Pics below. The weight as pictured (without battery etc) was 2050g.

 

[Wheazel]

A small motor will need high rpm to make any power. And gearing solutions will generate sound from high rpm.
Maybe a wormgear would be quiet, but those are not very efficient and can get hot from high rpm. (used in many electric wheelchairs at lower rpm)
It is tricky to combine high rpm and quiet. The motor itself will also generate sound, especially if used with a square wave controller.

 

[Ecyclist]

I want a super light and quiet mid drive for my carbon Enduro 29!

Your wish will be granted sooner than you think Sort of

 

[robocam]

Ooh, can you tell me more?

Your wish will be granted sooner than you think Sort of

 

[Ecyclist]

Ooh, can you tell me more?

Your wish will be granted sooner than you think Sort of

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson
My plan is to stay low profile for now, but I have something cooking on the back burner. 8)

 

[Ecyclist]

I assume (and we all know what that stands for) that our friends at GNG used a worm gear reducer for that kit.
Hopefully, it is not made of plastic like the types used in garage door openers.
Something like that.

 

[Ecyclist]

After all, it looks like a multiple stage reducer with first stage being a worm gear. That should last a lifetime... of a firefly.

 

[notger]

After all, it looks like a multiple stage reducer with first stage being a worm gear. That should last a lifetime... of a firefly.

exactly what i thought, i have a similar multiple-stage-reduction-box here in my workshop and once thought about building some Mid-Drive around it, but the bearings, gears and axles just looked to weak.

Still, I'm curious whats really inside of the GNG-magic-Black-Box.
Maybe there are indisdructible titanium-nasa-space-gears inside :wink:

greets
Notger

 

[ions82]

Didn't the info from GNG say that the prototypes have been running for over 10,000 KM? I really like the look and intention of this kit. Hopefully, it will prove to be a solid unit. I will be waiting to see what some of the early adopters have to say.

 

[Alex07]

Unread postby robocam » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:17 pm

So is it about 2.5 lbs lighter than a Cyclone Mini? If it is, it seems like you're losing a lot of power for the amount of weight lost. I want to hear what this thing sounds like. Is it anything like the super-quiet BBSHD? Please post some videos =) I want a super light and quiet mid drive for my carbon Enduro 29!

Storapa wrote:
The kit arrived today. Pics below. The weight as pictured (without battery etc) was 2050g.

which mini cyclone are you comparing this to ? the 36v 960w cyclone ? if so than thats not a fair comparison as this tiny motor is rated to 350w, in that case you should compare it to the cyclone 24v 350w which i 10mm thinner and lighter then the mini cyclone you are referring to. so its less then 2.5 punds lighter i think the smaller motor is like 0.5 pounds lighter again then the 960w, so only 2 pounds lighter , but it also depends on the bottom bracket and other hardware to see the final weight difference. regardless its not much difference to the stock 24v 350w cyclone , if its less reliable and overheats is it worth it ? the cyclone has thermal cut out does this ?

and it seems to be larger and less compact running up the downtube vs axially . Due to the angle bevel drive it also less direct and less efficient than the cyclone gearbox design. i.e Strait cut planet non 90 deg bevel like this design, so it will have more gear reduction losses vs cyclone, what is the noise like?

 

[Ecyclist]

Didn't the info from GNG say that the prototypes have been running for over 10,000 KM?

"You Cannot Be Serious: John McEnroe
Next time you will read that that unit was used on expedition to the Sun, came back to Earth and looks like new.
I would be amazed if GNG ran it for 1000 km.
Do you know that in China they make fake eggs? I'm not talking the type you use for Eastern egg hunt but for consumption.

 

[teslanv]

I'm a bit amused by all the speculation in this thread.

Rest assured, once I have my hands on a kit, you will all get a thorough tear-down.

 

[jk1]

Not sure what the fuss is about this kit ? it seems to be only slightly lighter then the cyclone24v 350w motor but also more expensive and risk of reliability ?

Also i would rather have more weight in the motor vs that huge gearbox i.e bigger motor to handle higher heat loads or at least have a thermal cutout feature ?

The drive is compact but it looses out compactness and weight with the external controller vs the cyclone internal and that huge angled bevel drive.

 

[robocam]

The 24V Cyclone with the built-in controller is interesting. I never even considered it, but now that I'm in the market for something light for a bike that I was originally intending to be human-powered only, I want to save as much weight as reasonably possible, so it's now a contender. Its advantage is that it has a throttle. I don't know how I feel about PAS only kits but I think I could learn to live with them.

The Bluetooth functionality of the GNG is attractive though. I wonder what parameters can be altered. Can you change the motor output in the different PAS settings? And the remote in the picture appears to have 4 buttons. How can you tell what PAS level you're in?

which mini cyclone are you comparing this to ? the 36v 960w cyclone ? if so than thats not a fair comparison as this tiny motor is rated to 350w, in that case you should compare it to the cyclone 24v 350w which i 10mm thinner and lighter then the mini cyclone you are referring to. so its less then 2.5 punds lighter i think the smaller motor is like 0.5 pounds lighter again then the 960w, so only 2 pounds lighter , but it also depends on the bottom bracket and other hardware to see the final weight difference. regardless its not much difference to the stock 24v 350w cyclone , if its less reliable and overheats is it worth it ? the cyclone has thermal cut out does this ?

and it seems to be larger and less compact running up the downtube vs axially . Due to the angle bevel drive it also less direct and less efficient than the cyclone gearbox design. i.e Strait cut planet non 90 deg bevel like this design, so it will have more gear reduction losses vs cyclone, what is the noise like?

 

[teslanv]

Not sure what the fuss is about this kit ? it seems to be only slightly lighter then the cyclone24v 350w motor but also more expensive and risk of reliability ?

IMHO, the GNG Ultralight kit appears to be much more compact and clean-looking than the Cyclone mini.

I like that I can use a two-speed 104BCD chainring on the GNG motor. I have a 36T and 24T chainring set that should give plenty of gearing range.

I'm not a fan yet, and I have heard plenty horror stories about GNG and their flimsy hardware in general, but I thought this kit deserved a close look and tear-down from an experienced builder.

 

[Kepler]

I am really hoping this system lives up to expectations. Visually it looks great but noise levels are going to be the big deciding factor for me if it will end up making it one of my projects. I can see it being a ripper of drive on a nice mountain bike setup. I have used a BBS drive on a mountain bike for years now and it has been great. However, it pushing close to 15,000 km and is getting close to retirement. This may well be the perfect replacement. How good would it be on a nice carbon free ride mountain bike with small capacity lightweight 18650 pack.

Agree with spinning magnets that a 63mm motor would be a better option. Halls and a Vesc on FOC could be just the ticket.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I hope I didn't sound dismissive. It will likely work quite well with the stock 50mm motor. I only meant to imply that the 63mm motors might be easily adaptable and would provide more power (if anyone was interested in that). Even if you didn't raise the input watts, the larger motor would run slightly cooler.

I am looking forward to the road results, because I am sure this will suit somebody's user profile...and it certainly is very light.

 

[Kepler]

HaHa, soft SM. I will put it out there that a 63mm motor is a better fit for this drive over a 50mm motor any day.

 

[ScooterMan101]

I also agree on all points Kepler, for me in the U.S. , and with the steep mountains I want to go up, a higher level of power is Needed. Along with a Throttle.

I give you all the encouragement in the World as I can see you are one of the Few that can make this little GNG into a better performing product.

( I only remember seeing You, and Lightingrod , work with Small / Lightweight RC Motors. along with Mechhead recently saying he wants to do so as well with the newer High Torque, Slower Speed Small RC Drone motors. )

I am really hoping this system lives up to expectations. Visually it looks great but noise levels are going to be the big deciding factor for me if it will end up making it one of my projects. I can see it being a ripper of drive on a nice mountain bike setup. I have used a BBS drive on a mountain bike for years now and it has been great. However, it pushing close to 15,000 km and is getting close to retirement. This may well be the perfect replacement. How good would it be on a nice carbon free ride mountain bike with small capacity lightweight 18650 pack.

Agree with spinning magnets that a 63mm motor would be a better option. Halls and a Vesc on FOC could be just the ticket.