going electric, converting one of my bikes

[motomech]

Okay, so I'm down to these 2 options

GBK100-R 36V 8.8Ah battery with cassette
http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-bike-kit-1/rear/gbk-100r-36v-rear-driving-kit-bottle-lithium-battery.html
http://www.greenbikekit.com/accessories/ebike-wheel-kit-parts/shimano-freewheel.html

or Q100 36V 10.4Ah battery with cassette
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/577-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-14-28-teeth-shimano-freewheel.html

Any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just pick the one with the best shipping deal, if shipping is the same then I'll pick the Q100 with the 10.4Ah battery. Wanna order today and get started as soon as possible, so I don't need any surprises and extra work when I get the stuff

Thanks for all your help.

Something that didn't seem right here stuck in my head. so I came back here and looked again at your links. That link to the BMS Battery kit is not the CST version. Do you know that?
Also, if your donner bike uses a 8, 9 or 10-speed cassette, install that, so the shifting will index just like it does now. You don't need the 7-sp.
Also, when placing an order from BMS Batt., it's always a good idea to order a few small extras, even if you are on a budget. For example, I don't know what throttle you specified, you should get a left-hand, half twist unit. Many of us remove(or don't use) thwe chain ring shifter, making the left side a better place to put the throttle. Whether you use the half-twist ot the thumb is personal preference. The thumb unit can just be turned up-side down.

 

[motomech]

Okay, so I'm down to these 2 options

GBK100-R 36V 8.8Ah battery with cassette
http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-bike-kit-1/rear/gbk-100r-36v-rear-driving-kit-bottle-lithium-battery.html
http://www.greenbikekit.com/accessories/ebike-wheel-kit-parts/shimano-freewheel.html

or Q100 36V 10.4Ah battery with cassette
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/577-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-14-28-teeth-shimano-freewheel.html

Any recommendations? Otherwise I'll just pick the one with the best shipping deal, if shipping is the same then I'll pick the Q100 with the 10.4Ah battery. Wanna order today and get started as soon as possible, so I don't need any surprises and extra work when I get the stuff

Thanks for all your help.

Something that didn't seem right here stuck in my head. so I came back here and looked again at your links. That link to the BMS Battery kit is not the CST version. Do you know that?
Also, if your donner bike uses a 8, 9 or 10-speed cassette, install that, so the shifting will index just like it does now. You don't need the 7-sp.
Also, when placing an order from BMS Batt., it's always a good idea to order a few small extras, even if you are on a budget. For example, I don't know what throttle you specified, you should get a left-hand, half twist unit. Many of us remove(or don't use) thwe chain ring shifter, making the left side a better place to put the throttle. Whether you use the half-twist ort the thumb is personal preference. The thumb unit can just be turned up-side down.

 

[knut7]

It may be that the factory solution doesn't work for you, but I'm sure you can find a nondestructive (to the bike) workaround, if you need to. You'll have to wait to see what your options are when the PAS comes.

Yeah, as long as I can remove the metal ring on the sensor I should be able to make it fit. Just remembered I've got an old Trek 6000 frame in the shed, leftovers after building a bike for a friend. Was supposed to throw it away years ago V-brakes mount rear, 73mm BSA BB, worst case I'll use that.

 

[mlt34]

If you got the CST or non-CST motor by mistake, get in touch with BMSbattery quickly and they can help. It usually takes at least a week for your stuff to leave their facility anyways, and they've always been helpful to me in the past when I want to change up orders or have a weird request last minute.

"Hey Bin, ummm, can I get that magicpie3 kit delaced from a rim? And instead of refunding me the value of the rim and spokes, can you just throw in a pile of various throttles to cover the difference? kthanks."

 

[mlt34]

It may be that the factory solution doesn't work for you, but I'm sure you can find a nondestructive (to the bike) workaround, if you need to. You'll have to wait to see what your options are when the PAS comes.

Yeah, as long as I can remove the metal ring on the sensor I should be able to make it fit. Just remembered I've got an old Trek 6000 frame in the shed, leftovers after building a bike for a friend. Was supposed to throw it away years ago V-brakes mount rear, 73mm BSA BB, worst case I'll use that.

Heck, that sounds like a good option too. Maybe get another kit, electrify that one, sell it on craigslist for double what the kit cost, then it covered the cost of your first kit. FREE ebike!

 

[knut7]

I'm a little late, but....
I believe D8veh has fitted a Pas sensor to a Hollowtech BB. Search his posts.
FYI, a DNP 9-speed does fit with the Q100 in 135 mm drop-outs, but I would have gone with the CST myself.
With the Cute on 36V, you will be rowing thru the gears.

What was the motor speed ordered?

Cool, will see if I can find it. Motor speed is 201rpm.

Something that didn't seem right here stuck in my head. so I came back here and looked again at your links. That link to the BMS Battery kit is not the CST version. Do you know that?
Also, if your donner bike uses a 8, 9 or 10-speed cassette, install that, so the shifting will index just like it does now. You don't need the 7-sp.
Also, when placing an order from BMS Batt., it's always a good idea to order a few small extras, even if you are on a budget. For example, I don't know what throttle you specified, you should get a left-hand, half twist unit. Many of us remove(or don't use) thwe chain ring shifter, making the left side a better place to put the throttle. Whether you use the half-twist ort the thumb is personal preference. The thumb unit can just be turned up-side down.

Yeah, I ended up ordering the non CST and a threaded cassette.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/577-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-14-28-teeth-shimano-freewheel.html
I originally wanted the CST but read about problems with the cassette mount cracking on some cheaper kits.

I asked for thumb throttle, dunno what I prefer Might be ditching the front shifter, will try first and see how much I use it.

 

[knut7]

"Hey Bin, ummm, can I get that magicpie3 kit delaced from a rim? And instead of refunding me the value of the rim and spokes, can you just throw in a pile of various throttles to cover the difference? kthanks."

Hmm, already tempted to get something bigger and faster

Heck, that sounds like a good option too. Maybe get another kit, electrify that one, sell it on craigslist for double what the kit cost, then it covered the cost of your first kit. FREE ebike!

Good idea! I think I'll stick with the kit I ordered, knowing myself I'll wanna upgrade soon and then I could just sell it as a complete bike built on the Trek frame.

 

[d8veh]

Fitting a PAS to a Hollowtech crank is the easiest of all. You have to unscrew the sensor from its ring, and screw it to the other side. Then drill/file/Dremmel out the hole in the magnet disk to 25mm. There's a spacer ring behind each bearing holder (assuming 68mm BB). Throw them away to give an extra 5mm to compensate for the thickness of the magnet disc. The magnet disc and sensor are fitted on the left side with the disc flipped to rotate in the opposite direction to what's indicated. Before you put the left crank on, test that the PAS works in the correct direction.:

 

[motomech]

You are not thinking this order out very well.
Do you know how slow a 201 @ 36V is? Little old ladies on trikes will pass you.
You need to get 45 to 50V's on a 201 to get any speed at all!
If you don't have any big hills, you could go 328 and 36V, even in a 26" wheel. But will need to pedal earnestly.
QAt this point, I'm thinking the Q100H(260 rpm) @ 36V is what you should be doing.
Speaking of pedaling, I wouldn't worry about the cassette boss on the CST cracking. Yes, the material might be a little thin in places, just don't jump on the pedals. Remember, gorillas ride these things and break stuff.
If you understand what I'm telling you and change your order, get the left-hand, half-twist throttle. Jeez, it's only a few dollars.

 

[d8veh]

The 328 rpm version will be too fast for that battery. It'll be drawing the maximum 15 amps most of the time, which makes the controller overheat as well. It'll give the battery, which is rated as 10 amp, a very hard time. The Q100H is better at 260 rpm. The 328 rpm Q100 in a 26" wheel is only suitable for hardened cyclists that want some power to increase their average speed.

 

[knut7]

Fitting a PAS to a Hollowtech crank is the easiest of all. You have to unscrew the sensor from its ring, and screw it to the other side. Then drill/file/Dremmel out the hole in the magnet disk to 25mm. There's a spacer ring behind each bearing holder (assuming 68mm BB). Throw them away to give an extra 5mm to compensate for the thickness of the magnet disc. The magnet disc and sensor are fitted on the left side with the disc flipped to rotate in the opposite direction to what's indicated. Before you put the left crank on, test that the PAS works in the correct direction.:

Thanks. I was hoping to install the kit on my Giant XTC with press fit BB (86.5mm wide shell), but if I give up then it'll go on the Trek 6000 frame with BSA 73mm.

 

[motomech]

Yes, I know, but he doesn't want to go with a 201@ 36V either. Better to go up in smoke, than die the slow death of 15 mph.
The Q100H with a DNP 9-speed freewheel would be the best low-cost compromise, by far!
He could save back a little extra by going with the KU63, but no PAS, right?
Half-twist throttle is stealthy.

 

[knut7]

You are not thinking this order out very well.
Do you know how slow a 201 @ 36V is? Little old ladies on trikes will pass you.
You need to get 45 to 50V's on a 201 to get any speed at all!
If you don't have any big hills, you could go 328 and 36V, even in a 26" wheel. But will need to pedal earnestly.
QAt this point, I'm thinking the Q100H(260 rpm) @ 36V is what you should be doing.
Speaking of pedaling, I wouldn't worry about the cassette boss on the CST cracking. Yes, the material might be a little thin in places, just don't jump on the pedals. Remember, gorillas ride these things and break stuff.
If you understand what I'm telling you and change your order, get the left-hand, half-twist throttle. Jeez, it's only a few dollars.

Well, that's why I'm here, asking before I placed the order

I realize 201rpm isn't very fast. An engine rotating at 201rpm, on a bike with a 26in wheel should do about 25km/h.
201rpm = 12060rph (rotations per hour)
Circumference of a 26in tyre: 2080mm = 0,00208km
rph*km = 12060*0,00208 = 25,1km/h
260rpm -> 32,5km/h

Am I totally wrong here? 25km/h was what I was initially looking for, law abiding as I am But I'm sure there'll be countless situations where I want more speed.

 

[motomech]

Oh, I thought you had ordered.
Your math is ok, but you do not understand what will happen to you once you start riding an Ebike.
Regular cyclists will pass you by and within a week, you will be wishing for those extra Kmh's\per\hr.
No one will notice you are a few over the limit if you ride it like a bicycle. And you can always slow down.
Big speed, like Big money, is not needed to have some fun, but no speed, well, no fun.
Most of us here prefer to ride in the 20 to 24 mph range. Fast enough to be entertaining, but not so fast as to make you stand out. Just keep your legs moving.
I would bet, than within a month, you will be yernning for 48V's.

 

[mlt34]

Ease up on the guy, it's his first ebike. He wants 25 km/h. Besides, if the bike is doing 25 km/h by itself, he can give it a tiny bit of extra pedalling and be at 30 km/h without breaking a sweat. He knows that in the future once he has a good understanding of ebikes and more experience he wants to upgrade, and at that point he can probably sell his first ebike and use it to completely cover the cost of stronger, faster components. We all learned by building our first ebike, seeing what we like and what we want to improve, and then going from there.

The KU63 does have pedal assist, IIRC. In the dozens of KU63's I've used in the past couple years, I've never touched the PAS connector

 

[knut7]

Yes, I know, but he doesn't want to go with a 201@ 36V either. Better to go up in smoke, than die the slow death of 15 mph.
The Q100H with a DNP 9-speed freewheel would be the best low-cost compromise, by far!
He could save back a little extra by going with the KU63, but no PAS, right?
Half-twist throttle is stealthy.

So you're saying I should get this engine (260rpm version)
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/633-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

Guess I'll stick with the 7sp freewheel
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-14-28-teeth-shimano-freewheel.html

I like the idea of having the controller integrated with the battery case, so I'll get this battery
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/567-bottle-ebike-battery-controller.html
S06P sine wave hall sensor, or square wave sensor less?

I have already placed the order. It's tempting to get the more powerful engine, if I'm able to communicate with the BMSbattery-guys I might try changing the order.

 

[motomech]

Yes, I know, but he doesn't want to go with a 201@ 36V either. Better to go up in smoke, than die the slow death of 15 mph.
The Q100H with a DNP 9-speed freewheel would be the best low-cost compromise, by far!
He could save back a little extra by going with the KU63, but no PAS, right?
Half-twist throttle is stealthy.

So you're saying I should get this engine (260rpm version)
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/633-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

Guess I'll stick with the 7sp freewheel
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-14-28-teeth-shimano-freewheel.html

I like the idea of having the controller integrated with the battery case, so I'll get this battery
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/567-bottle-ebike-battery-controller.html
S06P sine wave hall sensor, or square wave sensor less?

I have already placed the order. It's tempting to get the more powerful engine, if I'm able to communicate with the BMSbattery-guys I might try changing the order.

Yeah, that's the motor, not too fast and not too slow, but.....
it doesn't come with the CST feature. there is only one option, the DNP freewheel. get a 8 or 9 speed, so it will index with your current shifter. They are available everywhere and cost about $24 here in the States.
If I was starting a low(er) cost assist Ebike, this is what I would do.
Except, I probably go with a frt. motor to make it neater and lower cost.
Oh, I forget, you need a pair of 12 mm torque arms and the spoke wrench, very important.
When your kit arrives, you will have the center the wheel in the frame be "dishing it slightly. Not difficult.

 

[mlt34]

You really think he needs torque arms for a Q100 @ 36V? In my experience, the little torque washers that come with that kit are all you need for a 500W kit.

 

[motomech]

Probably not. But if later, he were to up the voltage and current, it could be a 700 to 800 watt motor. Definately torque arm territory.
But yeah, for now, he really doesn't need them.

 

[knut7]

Yeah, that's the motor, not too fast and not too slow, but.....
it doesn't come with the CST feature. there is only one option, the DNP freewheel. get a 8 or 9 speed, so it will index with your current shifter. They are available everywhere and cost about $24 here in the States.
If I was starting a low(er) cost assist Ebike, this is what I would do.
Except, I probably go with a frt. motor to make it neater and lower cost.
Oh, I forget, you need a pair of 12 mm torque arms and the spoke wrench, very important.
When your kit arrives, you will have the center the wheel in the frame be "dishing it slightly. Not difficult.

Yeah, wasn't able to find the Q100H CST. I'll be getting this cassette then, right?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DNP-mountain-road-bike-cassette-9-speed-11-30-shimano-sram-compatible-/130644559275

Got a spoke wrench, but no wheel truing mount unfortunately. Guess I'll be able to redish the wheel w/o making the build job much worse than it already is

What controller should I chose? S06P sine wave hall sensor, or square wave sensor less?

I guess I'll send BSMb a msg and see if I can change the order, but I think it'll be okay even if I can't.

Thanks for your input guys.

 

[mlt34]

A trick I learned from a bike mechanic friend is that when I don't have a truing stand to use, put a cable tie on the seat or chain stay, cut it so it's close to the rim but not touching (or touching, w.e) and use that as a gauge for truing the wheel in the bike.

 

[knut7]

Yeah, the cable tie trick works well for sideways truing.

I'm not able to decide between S06P and S06S. From what I read the Sine Wave S06S is better, but I can't figure out if there's any differences in features, and whether I'll lose any functionality or ad installation complexity by choosing S06S.

Also it'd be nice if somebody could confirm this cassette will work with the Q100H?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DNP-mountain-road-bike-cassette-9-speed-11-30-shimano-sram-compatible-/130644559275

 

[mlt34]

Yeah, the cable tie trick works well for sideways truing.

I'm not able to decide between S06P and S06S. From what I read the Sine Wave S06S is better, but I can't figure out if there's any differences in features, and whether I'll lose any functionality or ad installation complexity by choosing S06S.

Also it'd be nice if somebody could confirm this cassette will work with the Q100H?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DNP-mountain-road-bike-cassette-9-speed-11-30-shimano-sram-compatible-/130644559275

I use the cable tie for hop as well, since you can see how far up and down the rim moves relative to the cable tie.

Negative on the cassette. The Q100H needs a freewheel, not a cassette, as far as I'm aware. It's the Q100 CST that accepts a cassette.

 

[knut7]

Ah, of course, the clue was not DNP but DNP freewheel.

I'm only finding 9sp freewheels at $35+ and that's above the Norwegian VAT free limit which is about $32. I'd like to stay below as exceeding it triggers vat + an aditionall toll fee. This one should be fine
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-9spd-11-32-Nickel-Plated-/360744871033?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53fe11e479
Shipping is $40 though :/

So, all that remains now is choosing between S06S and S06P. Still wondering about that.

 

[mlt34]

Ah, of course, the clue was not DNP but DNP freewheel.

I'm only finding 9sp freewheels at $35+ and that's above the Norwegian VAT free limit which is about $32. I'd like to stay below as exceeding it triggers vat + an aditionall toll fee. This one should be fine
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-9spd-11-32-Nickel-Plated-/360744871033?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53fe11e479
Shipping is $40 though :/

So, all that remains now is choosing between S06S and S06P. Still wondering about that.

I often just ask the seller to list the value lower on the customs form, like $20 or so. I'm not sure if you're comfortable with that, but it works for me

I believe the sign wave controller is generally considered superior, but I haven't used that one. I've only used the KU63/KU65 in that size, so I can't help you there...