Got busted for riding my ebike

[fechter]

I was out riding recently on one of the trails above my house and got pulled over by a park ranger. He wrote me a ticket for having a "motorized vehicle" on park land. I explained to him that under California state law, ebikes are considered bicycles and not motorized vehicles. He wrote me the ticket anyway.

I researched the posted rules, and after about an hour of searching, I found that sure enough, the stupid parks system here has specifically prohibited ebikes from the unpaved trails in their district. I was unaware of this and for the past 8 years thought riding my bike was OK. I have passed by park rangers many times in the past and the just waved and smiled.

The ticket was $509!

I'm not sure what their rationale for banning ebikes is, but my guess it's a bunch of Karens that just want the trails for themselves and don't want to share with anyone else. They ranger that wrote me the ticket said that "people" were complaining about the ebikes. My observation is about half the bikes I see on the trails are ebikes.

In searching out the rules, I ran across the Electric Mountain Bike Association, which has been pushing to change the rules, mostly in southern California.
I gave them a generous donation to help their cause. If it can work down there, it can work here, and hopefully the idea spreads.

Their website is here: Electric Mountain Bike Association

They also have a petition going to get the rules changed. Please sign the petition if you want to help get ebikes allowed on park lands.
ebike petition

I'm sure they could use donations if you are inclined also.

 

[slaphappygamer]

I blame the kids on Sur-Ron’s.

 

[999zip999]

2nd That.
Down here at the beach next to the hills in Southern California we're developing gangs of bike kids from 13 to 17 years old they like to have a leader and he has a suround of course he can do all kinds of tricks and spin around the saddle and do wheelies he likes to pop a wheelie and act like he's coming at you with five or six other kids on their little bafang ebikes.
The other day of that gang of kids or ones like them came over to my next door neighbor whose kid just got a new Saran dad is teaching him how to do wheelies last week so now I have 8 to 10 kids going up and down the street with cars in a narrow Street buzzing around my neighbor and his wife went over there and started saying something to him he goes they're just right he need bikes up and down the street and I had to go over there and back them up and explain you know these guys are going to die it's 16 years and older you can ride in a bike if you're under 16 you cannot ride an e-bike in California let alone a suround electric motorcycle.
Across the river bridge yesterday to go on to my ranch and there was a cop in a car parked on a bike trail in San Juan Capistrano and he was busting down on the electric bike gang but like I said most of them aren't even old enough to be on electric bike and all they're doing is riding double and hold on to the cell phone and the person who's riding the bike in front is always looking backwards behind them going forward not looking where he's going.
We just had a group of kids six of them on a bikes go over to another 15-year-old beat him up and leave on the ebkes just like a little baby motorcycle gang you can't touch them they're under 18 years old so what can you do can't even spray water on them
Damn e-bikes they got a outlaw them.
I love it before Kovacs and no one had an electric bike I remember as soon as Colby hit you couldn't buy a bike and inner tube or tire at any bike store they were sold out because of supply chain went flat.

P.S.
Hey I got to throw it in there how about no gas Tuesday nobody in California gets gas on Tuesday we've started July 5th corporate Independence Day on Tuesdays. Oil 68usd a barrel.
Or the price of oil has very little to do with the price of gasoline.

 

[Eastwood]

The ticket was $509!

That’s complete BS!
$509 is way to much of a find. Sorry to hear about your troubles. But yeah it’s the kids on e-bikes that have ruined it for all of us. Kids these days have no respect or common courtesy for others and give all of us ebikers a bad name.

 

[Bengy22]

I knew a guy that had asthma and said that ebikes are allowed in state parks if you have a disability as they can then be considered a mobility device and be under the Americans with disabilities act, and verbal representation is enough if stopped in person. Even mentioned that shortness of breath could likely be considered a disability when I mentioned when my allergies act up in the fall making riding longer distances not as fun. Of course though that's all hearsay but apparently he never had any issues riding in them. If you did have a disability I assume you could get the ticket dropped (if what he said was true).

I also agree likely was someone really abusing the "ebike" definition, probably had a kid almost hit them and decided to take action against all riders compared to the other rangers who just likely didn't mind if you were respectful with your riding

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I was out riding recently on one of the trails above my house and got pulled over by a park ranger.

If the government doesn't work, it is the fault of the citizens for not paying attention and acting to correct the working of the government.

No one else is responsible, if you want democracy and freedom. If you want the freedom, shoulder the responsibility.

As at least one poster above notes, there are people being harmed by ebikes, or more properly, by misuse of ebikes.

So, what are you going to do about it, apart from whining? How are you going to help the people that need help, how are you going to correct the problems that need correcting, how are you going to ensure what you do actually solves the problem, how are you going to rally the majority of your fellow citizens to work on this?

You did the whining. Now do the work. It isn't someone else's business in a democracy.

 

[999zip999]

If the government doesn't work

Okay boys and girls here's we go.
We need independence from the petrol energy complex that's ruling our financial situations in a down down time after pelvic amendment and taking advantage of us coming out of sick trying to be free and breathe at oil $72 a barrel.

 

[999zip999]

To stand up like men and women who have a vote we vote with our dollars we vote no gas Tuesday starting Tuesday July 5th the day after July 4th we will have a corporate petroleum consortium revolt.

Let's make it simple no one in California buys gas on Tuesday no gas Tuesday buy it Monday buy it Wednesday no gas Tuesday July 7th we're going to start something you little brainy acts that know how to work the keyboard set it down put it down put it in your Facebook put it in your email we're going to start somewhere

 

[999zip999]

Anyway fechter II used to live up in Burlingame and I'll tell you what it's just the Bay area I can't believe 500
Plus only rich people live where you live you're a damn professor PhD electrical technician specialist your brain is two steps below Tesla but you're 98% there

 

[gobi]

Fechter,
$509, ouch

In MI, the law prohibits ebike with throttles in public trails, also max speed/watts.
Also, there are exceptions for handicap and other individual with limitations.

You could ask the ticket to reconsidered as there were no posted signage at the entrance to the trails and you have observed other ebikes over the years and assumed that it was ok.
I would be honest and ask for a reduction or a warning.

 

[E-HP]

I was out riding recently on one of the trails above my house and got pulled over by a park ranger. He wrote me a ticket for having a "motorized vehicle" on park land. I explained to him that under California state law, ebikes are considered bicycles and not motorized vehicles. He wrote me the ticket anyway.

Dang. Sounds like it's getting worse. I took a ride over to your side of the bay not long ago and rode over to China Camp. I took a couple of the fire roads down near the shore, but recalled that you mentioned issues before, so I didn't have the guts to ride up the hill on the single tracks. Now I'm starting to worry about the trails around my house.

On the flipside, I've seen this set of signs a few times, but not offroad:

I think the original signs predated ebikes, and were meant for bikes with a gas engine conversions. I think I read there was some clarification in the current law regarding ebikes, but the cops don't necessarily need to know the law before they issue you a ticket. And if the signs hadn't been updated with the add on "OK" sign, they would just point to it and make you fight it in court.

 

[From-A-To-B]

E-HP points out a great example of the need for better signage and education as ebikes continue to grow in popularity in our communities. This is a multi-faceted issue, including includes land use and agreement on

On the land-use front: I agree with restricting the use of ebikes in some places - including some trails and woodsy areas. In the States, there's a protection gradation on our public lands. You can do just about anything you'd like on BLM lands, National Forest Land has more rules, upwards to Wilderness Lands designation where all vehicles (including pedal bikes!), drones, and pets are not allowed. I live in Colorado, and I think it's wonderful that I can go backpacking somewhere that I don't have to listen to the brap brap of dirtbikes and snowmobiles. The trails are far less worn down in these areas and the wildlife hasn't all be scared off. I really enjoy hikinig around in Wildnerness Land without wondering if I'm going to be surprised by a MTB rider, electric or not. I want all the MTB riders, the dirtbikers, and the snowmobilers to have a great time. It's not my bag, but there's plenty of space out here and we all get our scratch of dirt to play on. I'm game to keep my ebike off some sections of trail if I know there are other places for me to ride. We can't fish in every lake and can't smoke in every restaurant anymore -- on principle, these arrangements don't bother me.

Secondly, communities in the US have barely agreed on what constitutes an ebike, in the legal sense -- and the rules surrounding ebike use are irregularly enforced, leading to confusion and feelings of unfairness. Generally speaking, an ebike is legal in the states if it's got a "750 Watt" motor and battery, working pedals, and goes less than 20 or 28mph, location depending. But enforcement around ebike regulations is spotty and there's a lot of confusion about where ebikes are allowed to be. Signs, like above, that say "no motorized vehicles" (ebikes included?) are a great example. Finally, people take advantage when they ride electric bikes, that don't conform to the law, in places that allow ebikes (and sometimes they ride them like asshats.)

Most of us on this forum run bikes that don't comply with the law -- myself included. My 1400W-and-33-mph-capable bike is technically too much. Nobody's going to pull me over because they noticed my 1000W LeafBike kit so, in use, it comes down to whether I ride my bikes in a manner that respects other trail/road/bike path users. Many folks running around on SurRons are muddying the waters for commuters on a 500W Aventon ebike, because SurRons are fast and can be ridden in nuisance fashion but arer nonetheless perceived as an "ebike" by the layperson. Less powerful ebikes, too, can be ridden in a way that defeats the interests of the community. Someone hauling ass on a multi-use path around my town puts other people at risk -- people pushing strollers and elderly included. My town restricted speed on multi-use paths to 20mph even before ebikes were popular -- because the sporty pedal-bikers were riding too fast for others to safely walk. At the end of the day, when our community norms are broken or (often upper-class) people feel unsafe, the hammer comes down and people's toys are taken away. Or folks are socially cast out and children on ebikes are referred to as "gangs."

I'm most invested in seeing rules made so that a welcoming path is laid for the average-marginal ebike user -- the next person to get on a bike who currently isn't riding. I want to see more parents with kids on motorized Yubas, I want more people leaving their car at home for their 3-mile commute to work, even if that car runs on electrons. If that requires ticketing the irresponsibly-ridden electric dirtbikes and banning my ebike from some dirt tracks, then god bless. I'd trade that any day for more bike lanes in my area and infrastructure that allows people less confident while biking than I am to feel at home on the road.

My 2 cents - y'all are welcome to disagree and I'd love to hear why! Sorry about your ticket, Fetcher. Five hundred dollar surprises aren't fun - though it seems like the principle of the thing was the harder pill to swallow for you.

 

[999zip999]

Well there is always that guy that was speeding 80 mph in Montana and because Montana doesn't post at speed limit probably because I can't afford to put up all the signs in the places it wasn't properly posted so it had no speed limit and he got off but yeah Montana now has a 70 mph speed limit but his ticket was dismiss because it wasn't properly posted in the state of Montana.
The big mile state meaning you drive forever and there's nothing there so they don't bother putting up the sign and also meaning that they couldn't enforce their speed limit law because of improper posting

 

[fechter]

The signs posted at the entrance to the trails just says "no motorized vehicles", but bicycles and horses are allowed. Under CA law, ebikes are not considered motorized vehicles. They really need the signs to say "no e-bikes" if they want ebikes to stay out. I probably could have contested the ticket, but don't have the time or energy at this point.

In China Camp State Park, they now allow Class 1 ebikes, so I could ride there, but it's a bit far from my house.

They do allow for "Other Power Driven Mobility Devices", for people with disabilities. They are also not allowed to ask about your disability, so I guess I could go back out and use that defense if they stop me again. Since I'm an old geezer, I could probably get away with that.

I'd just like to figure out how to get them to change the rules. I really don't know what their argument against ebikes is.

 

[2old]

CA, as well as more than half the other states, has the Class system for e-bikes. Basically less than 750w, and Class 1 (20 mph max PAS), Class 2 (20 mph max PAS or throttle) and Class 3 (28 mph max PAS), and designates where each is allowed. In "the OC" e-bikes are not allowed on any trails (except a few fire roads where other vehicles are permitted). However the law is moot because it's enforced in only a few places. I'm in agreement with those above who have witnessed 10 -12 year old punks riding, at excessive speeds, in parking lots and on sidewalks. The advent of the 50 mph Talaria, a SurRon-type motorcycle (no pedals) for < $3K, will exacerbate this problem.

 

[Quinc]

Next time tell them you are homeless and on your way to do fentanyl.. The rangers in norcal have had a hard on for writing tickets to anyone they can find who they think will pay for it. I was using my ebike to pull a wagon back and forth collecting trash out of a park and he was ready to write me a ticket before another ranger came up and told him not too.

 

[JackFlorey]

To stand up like men and women who have a vote we vote with our dollars we vote no gas Tuesday starting Tuesday July 5th the day after July 4th we will have a corporate petroleum consortium revolt.

And what would that do? Gas station tanks hold about a week's worth of gas.

 

[E-HP]

In China Camp State Park, they now allow Class 1 ebikes, so I could ride there, but it's a bit far from my house.

Good to know. It’s far for me too (18 mile to the trailhead) so I’d need to pedal some there and back to have useable battery for the ride. Where do you find these types of updates?

PS. Not sure if you heard about that guy that rode/fell off the ridgline at China Camp last year on his ebike last July. I knew that guy from work. He had just retired RIP. I almost bit it in the same area on my regular mountain bike about 15 years ago. They never said what actually went wrong. I suspect assist either kicking in unexpectedly, or a delay shutting off, since it sounds like he was cresting the hill, then flew off the cliff. Oddly there was another incident there that day (fatality/body discovered), so the ebike story received less coverage.

 

[gobi]

The signs posted at the entrance to the trails just says "no motorized vehicles", but bicycles and horses are allowed. Under CA law, ebikes are not considered motorized vehicles. They really need the signs to say "no e-bikes" if they want ebikes to stay out. I probably could have contested the ticket, but don't have the time or energy at this point.

In China Camp State Park, they now allow Class 1 ebikes, so I could ride there, but it's a bit far from my house.

They do allow for "Other Power Driven Mobility Devices", for people with disabilities. They are also not allowed to ask about your disability, so I guess I could go back out and use that defense if they stop me again. Since I'm an old geezer, I could probably get away with that.

I'd just like to figure out how to get them to change the rules. I really don't know what their argument against ebikes is.

Op, I would take a DNR ticket seriously, in MI a DNR ticket is a Misdemeanor. If they did not mention ebikes specifically in their signage, I would point it out and ask for clarification and 2nd chance.
I have bad knees and if I am not able to bike around a long period of time, though I am not handicapped but I am physically limited to what/where I can ride.

 

[999zip999]

Jack it is a forum for protest that means stand up pull up your pants buckle up your pants hold up a sign and protest say something at least say something or go sit in the corner with your video game and do nothing
It tells them that you're paying attention okay it's like when the morning comes in the Sun rises
As in other parts of the world they will put their cell phone down in protest

 

[E-HP]

Jack it is a forum for protest that means stand up pull up your pants buckle up your pants hold up a sign and protest say something at least say something or go sit in the corner with your video game and do nothing
It tells them that you're paying attention okay it's like when the morning comes in the Sun rises
As in other parts of the world they will put their cell phone down in protest

I think these issues with ebikes extend beyond laws, and will only get worse as long of people aren't being responsible while riding and charging. Protesting may highlight issues, but won't address why the issue exists.

 

[999zip999]

In California children under 16 cannot ride an electric e-bike. Let's start there

 

[portals]

Can I ask what the 'Park Rangers' look like where you are, do they drive SUVs with flashing lights and loads of guns etc. like real cops where you are, what authority do they actually have?

Where I live we have 'Parkies' mostly old geezers that potter around and like to have naps in the Council van when they can. If they hassle you it's a matter of smiling and moving off before they find their pencil...no fine etc.

If one went 'rogue' and tried to engage me I'd threaten his petulias....he'd get the message and we'd all move on....alive...

 

[nicobie]

So, what are you going to do about it, apart from whining? How are you going to help the people that need help, how are you going to correct the problems that need correcting, how are you going to ensure what you do actually solves the problem, how are you going to rally the majority of your fellow citizens to work on this?

You did the whining. Now do the work. It isn't someone else's business in a democracy.

Do you have any suggestions?

Fechter posted a couple of links in the first post. Thank you, I'll be signing the petition and think I'll give them a nice donation too.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Do you have any suggestions?

Rule by majority.

Arrange a majority.

Start organising with other voters until you are the majority. Complaining isn't organising - it requires actually talking and listening.

Democracy is constant work. It's not 'set and forget'.