Graphene, possible non-battery uses in bicycles?

[rborger73]

Wow, it got even dumber in here. Whispy powder.. A flat out refusal to understand what Graphene actually is.. Continually calling it "graphite". Jesus.. Logging back out..

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/09/mits-3d-graphene-is-ten-times-stronger-than-steel/

The actual press release from MIT (linked in the article) is pretty explanatory if you take a moment to read it. The researchers created the 3D graphene structures out of graphene flakes, and then mimicked the very small shapes in large-scale models for testing purposes. You read and comprehend, only what you want to.

 

[cycleops612]

Carbon, graphite, graphene, and other, are NOT organic,.... but rather a non-metallic (or semi-metallic) element, common in mineral compounds and essential to organics and many synthetic polymerizations and infinitely more. They are working hard on stripping graphene, and other carbon allos from graphite, for a variety suitable and desired use. Current technologies are limiting us to flakes, buckys, nanotubes, etc., and we're still lacking a great many "secrets" necessary for exploitation in every desired manner. Many technologies are/were developed, designed, and directed at other uses and needs with varying degrees of results,... then directed and targeted in new ways to satisfy "our need to know". lol! A great many "OMG!" results have been expanded upon in such manner.

Carbon's use in super conductors has already been exploited, it CAN be doped, and is providing an extreme of excitement in the field of semi-conductors. And imagine the childish excitement of seeing a simple faulty sheet of graphene floating in air!!!! HOVERBOARDS!!!!

There's a HUGE amount of carbon, graphite, and graphenes in e-bikes today,.... by volume and mass, most is in the LiPo battery. But battery aside, nearly every component from the thread of your synthetic covered poly-foam seat, to the micron of tire tread left on the road surface behind you, has a significant amount of "graphene"!!! Other elements of copper, zinc, iron, chromium are not likely to be replaced by carbon and it's allotropes because of their desired or essential qualities. Simular to dry-ice, aspirin, heroin,.... "100% Graphite", is becoming a loose term to describe your fancy light-weight synthetic e-bike componants, although the former are actually brand names. Graphene "compounds" and "composites" will certainly see a broader use and application in bicycles,... revolutionary???? That depends,... WAS your chrome-moly frame "revolutionary"??? or IS your chrome-moly frame "revolutionary"??? No doubt that graphene brings new potential to everything from the thread, to that micron of tire tread,... and even to the wheel spokes of both, steel and "100% graphite"!

I propose we enslave large numbers of spiders and fit them with small nano carbon thread producing backpacks, and set them to work bridge building etc. Remember, you heard it here first.

They tried using them for silk production, but unfortunately they had a habit of eating each other. So some doping may be good - not the carbon - the spiders. It works in the projects, so why not?

Something similar to wire rope made from nano carbon threads sound exciting engineering wise, if they have the right properties.

 

[Chalo]

The researchers created the 3D graphene structures out of graphene flakes, and then mimicked the very small shapes in large-scale models for testing purposes.

The structures are too small to even test in a laboratory setting, yet you provide this as evidence of the material being worth the trouble to use it for human scale structures. Okay... I believe that you believe that.

 

[rborger73]

Jesus ffing christ dude. Watch from 3 minute mark out... Your constant refusal to admit you're GD wrong is the most annoying thing ever..

[youtube]FaKl3OymFy4[/youtube]

 

[DRMousseau]

WoW! Nice clip,.... and easy to understand some of the excitement here. Unfortunately, it has some moments that contribute to some great misunderstandings, and other moments that that are almost "deceptive".

I would personally disagree with his 1st opening sentence ending at :10,.... my bet is on OTHER carbon allos, such as C60, that will make this initial inroad EXACTLY as described here later, AND lead to many others not even considered in this short clip.
The statement ending at 2:00,... the particular "property" referenced here, more a matter of "density", the property of several molecules together, and has nothing to do with the uniqueness of individual molecular carbon allo and/or crystalline structures. Given a 1000 carbon atoms for each,... easy to understand diamonds to be much smaller and of greater hardness due to high density when compared to graphite's lesser density. A somewhat deceptive perception of "strength" in carbon atoms.
The process description beginning at 2:20,... is somewhat vague (understandably) as being "exfoliated" with the importance of a centrifuge,.. likely a solvent sonication(sp) process, but this remains unclear. One of many "extraction" processes. The descriptive "quality", again seems somewhat deceptive (being directly related to graphene) and not truly descriptive of the final product that follows.
The product presented at 2:40,... again, seems somewhat deceptive. IF, this is the resultant product "you get out", the "quality" previously described would define a significant "percentage" of graphene contained. IF,... this is a 100% (or nearly so) TRUE Graphene product, then it is but a small percentage of base material and rather wasteful of present and VERY useful molecules and allos of the former product.
Description #1 at 2:55,... "TRUE graphene is jus one atom thick,...". Again, rather deceptive and not a good descriptive, as 6C carbon, is jus "one atom thick"!!! It is the unique atomic structure IN SPACE that defines graphenes carbon atom in uniqueness!!
Comparative description #2,... "..incredibly strong. 200 time that of steel." Again, deceptive at best, not truly descriptive. Steel is a molecule of several atoms and is not an atomic element in itself. Again,... gathering 1000 atomic particles of each, and the comparison may likely fail depending on a great number of variables. Graphene IS a strongly bonded atom of unique 2D structure in space. As a 2D structure it's exceptional, it's rather poor in relative practical and useful 3D strength. To liken it to a "honey comb" or "cargo net", it's "strength" properties fails in all but an exceptional single direction of force!!! (Using 10 graphene atoms in forming a "bucky ball", would provide a far more useful molecule of useful 3D strength.
Descriptive #3,... "And thirdly,...it's incredible conductive. One of the most conductive materials out there." True and accurate, but fails to exemplify THE UNIQUENESS of conductivity that sets it apart from ANYTHING out there! This uniqueness will certainly and immediately revolutionize semi-conductors and superconductors,... but is totally irrelevant to "bicycle construction". Sigh,... kinda makes this a "misleading" statement.
Oh my, 3:20,.... "Graphene is impossible to isolate into sheets." AN IMPORTANT STATEMENT OF FACT that brings much "warmth" to the forum discussion here!!! Or sorta,... it's (should he better have said), "NEARLY impossible to isolate into USEFUL sheets"??? And currently impractical in manners of most important concerns???
3:29,... the product is used as "an additive" to make composites (and compounds). This leads ME to believe that it not a "PURE" product, but a "refined" useful product containing a beneficial percentage of graphene and other, useful, structural, fullerenes.
At 3:36, a huge confusion is presented without an understandable clarity other than the importance of a uniformly dispersible product, but isn't really specific in what is obviously a guarded process!!! The demonstration is one of dispersion and NOT soluble "mixing". Carbon and is various forms are not soluble in water.

From 5:00 on,... a rather unique result is described. It is a REINFORCED CARBON FIBER COMPOSITE PRODUCT!!!! Kinda like adding a fine sharp silica sand (graphene product) to a coarse concrete aggregate (carbon fiber product) and cement (resin product)!!!! In "masonry terms", sand and cement is jus mortar. Great binding, but doesn't stand structurally strong. Coarse concrete, while strong in a sense, lacks a binding with huge gaps of cement which has no strength as a whole composite. The proper ratios of cement, sand and aggregate produces a superior product of immense compressive strength and resistant of high shear forces.

The benefit of added graphene (and additional allotropes such C60, which I feel of greater importance and likely greater use and productivity) to carbon fiber products is well explained and easily apparent as superior product. But again, fails to reveal details of importance. That being "true" polymerization of graphene to the "resin", and the fact that a "denser" carbon fiber product is obviously stronger by the virtue of a denser carbon structure!!! NOT BECAUSE of graphene's real uniqueness, but because of it's ability to fill a "resin" space with a strong structural "aggregate" of which C60 "bucky's" would be stronger and lighter as a huge portion of that "graphene" product!!!!

All in all,... the final product and process of a reinforced carbon fiber structural component as used in frame construction here, is certainly a wonderful use and advancement of "graphene" in various uses of similar shell structures and even tanks, cylinders, and other composites. But it's REAL revolution, will be seen in new and perhaps useful compounds!

And yes,... graphene by itself??? Is pixie dust. Although as magical and perhaps as essential as simple carbon.

 

[cycleops612]

Even with current manufacturing, metal, synthetic, and carbon technologies, a QUALITY purpose built e-bike (or bicycle) HAS, and will likely continue to have typical spokes regardless of all cost and expense!!! Even with unlimited financial backing and the latest technologies available for professional use of a one-off special purpose built wheel,... it's still gonna be built with typical spoke design, and maybe spokes of exotic materials. Well,... until spokes of every kind are unneeded!

AND the disposable or low cost consumer products,... already see an influx of cast and synthetics. Carbon, polys, metals, alloys, cast, moulded or extruded,... it's what today's "typical consumer" wants in everything today, and what the industry can reasonably produce within it's liability of safety to meet that market. No part repair, replacement or adjustment,... at the most, jus a quick easy OEM replacement assembly or unit to snap in, and even that's an inconvenience. Newer material technology WILL surely see increasing use as they become economically available for use in this manner.

Folks want no added labor time or added part costs,.... no maintenance costs or personal time involvement, and of course, easy to use. And they'll pay more if these needs are met, REGARDLES of any consequences! EV's are gaining in acceptance NOT because of fuel or "perceived" ecological, or even energy efficiencies,... but because of simplicity of use by the majority consumer to which the manufactures can appeal to. Heck, it's an inconvenience to plug in your car or bike for many,... AND THEN, have to wait for a charge?!?! UGH! Who has time for a loose spoke or cracked casting??? Jus get another,... our trash and waste is buried, and no one sees it. Graphene products might even reduce some waste,... won't rot, rust or decompose much, should last forever, if we can use 'em that long.

Oh CRAP!!! Motor died in my graphene wheel unit,.... jus get another wheel unit. Right? Oh and tire,... no sense in messin' with that trouble. A new wheel/motor unit WITH tire! :wink:

 

[cycleops612]

Even with current manufacturing, metal, synthetic, and carbon technologies, a QUALITY purpose built e-bike (or bicycle) HAS, and will likely continue to have typical spokes regardless of all cost and expense!!! Even with unlimited financial backing and the latest technologies available for professional use of a one-off special purpose built wheel,... it's still gonna be built with typical spoke design, and maybe spokes of exotic materials. Well,... until spokes of every kind are unneeded!

AND the disposable or low cost consumer products,... already see an influx of cast and synthetics. Carbon, polys, metals, alloys, cast, moulded or extruded,... it's what today's "typical consumer" wants in everything today, and what the industry can reasonably produce within it's liability of safety to meet that market. No part repair, replacement or adjustment,... at the most, jus a quick easy OEM replacement assembly or unit to snap in, and even that's an inconvenience. Newer material technology WILL surely see increasing use as they become economically available for use in this manner.

Folks want no added labor time or added part costs,.... no maintenance costs or personal time involvement, and of course, easy to use. And they'll pay more if these needs are met, REGARDLES of any consequences! EV's are gaining in acceptance NOT because of fuel or "perceived" ecological, or even energy efficiencies,... but because of simplicity of use by the majority consumer to which the manufactures can appeal to. Heck, it's an inconvenience to plug in your car or bike for many,... AND THEN, have to wait for a charge?!?! UGH! Who has time for a loose spoke or cracked casting??? Jus get another,... our trash and waste is buried, and no one sees it. Graphene products might even reduce some waste,... won't rot, rust or decompose much, should last forever, if we can use 'em that long.

Oh CRAP!!! Motor died in my graphene wheel unit,.... jus get another wheel unit. Right? Oh and tire,... no sense in messin' with that trouble. A new wheel/motor unit WITH tire! :wink:

re the spokeless thing, which seems now blended w/ the graphene thread:

Love your work Doc.

Yep, to be fair, ES is nominally an enthusiast site & we consumers value their input, but its not heresy to have another life & to want something that just gets the job done.

On the contrary, they fail to even realise they are a tiny minority in the market. One could argue, so it the USA with its ~750w legal, & god knows what in reality - 1000 - 1500w - (its mandatory~ to use freeways at 40mph at least to have a fighting chance).

Utterly devoid of any sense of; context, empathy, flogging a dead horse, or that their arguments simply score for the other side.

Even so, wouldnt a true enthusiast rather be riding than fixing stuff and waiting on parts?

They claim authority on wheels by citing how many times they have fixed spoke wheels - OKAAAY?

Their comments would leave most readers feeling very dubious about spokes - me included. I was ambivalent in my OP - it was simply re heavy riders.

Dumb question?

If holes in the rim dont weaken it (or conversely, require compensating extra weight), why do they bother with those silly small diameter racing valves on the ~better road bikes?

 

[spinningmagnets]

If holes in the rim don't weaken it (or conversely, require compensating extra weight), why do they bother with those silly small diameter racing valves on the ~better road bikes?

I believe these thin air-fill stems are for very narrow rims. Of course some people use them on rims that could fit the "normal" sized, but I believe that's why they were produced initially.

 

[dustNbone]

In the spokes vs. cast wheel debate, I have only one thing to say:

Motocross.

Those wheels take a beating unmatched by any other wheel that I can think of, and weight is always an issue in that class of motorcycle.

They're all spoked. If there was a better way to make a motorcycle wheel, you'd probably see it there first.

 

[DRMousseau]

Yep, to be fair, ES is nominally an enthusiast site & we consumers value their input, but its not heresy to have another life & to want something that just gets the job done.


Even so, wouldnt a true enthusiast rather be riding than fixing stuff and waiting on parts?


Their comments would leave most readers feeling very dubious about spokes - me included. I was ambivalent in my OP - it was simply re heavy riders.

I bought a friend a brand new bike to get to work with,.... it lasted him less than one year!!! I failed to acknowledge that he was totally incapable of ANY simple care or maintenance, including simply checking air pressure in the tires occasionally. And he certainly wasn't going to pay any mechanic to repair or maintain what he considered to be a "disposable"!!!! ONE YEAR,... and every component was worthless!!!! The same bike,.... would last me SEVERAL YEARS, with few replacements beyond items of normal lifetime wear. Regardless of initial cost, $1000 or $100, a bicycle by it's very nature, won't last any longer, if not maintained or cared for. The most minimal,... an old single speed, "coaster brake", heavy chained, wheeled and tired with a tough steel frame,.... is the standby favorite of parents, jus because of it's minimal need for care, but it's still not care-free! And neither are autos, motorcycles, or scooters,... which may also be badly abused, by those like my friend above! This factor alone, may see wonderful technologies unused in favor of current less costly "disposable" alternatives. UGH!

The very nature of an e-bike, requires even MORE care, maintenance, AND CONCERN,.... batteries alone can be a serious issue!!! While my friend is envious of my simple e-cruiser,.... I WILL NOT encourage him in such direction. It's simply not worth it to him as a "disposable"! Nor would it be SAFE!!!!

My initial consideration in a motorized bicycle was actually a gas-powered 2-stroker!!!! After a HUGE GREAT deal of consideration, I opted for electric for most of the same reasons I have chosen electric chain-saws, electric weed-wackers, and electric trimmers,.... to avoid the added maintenance and care of engines, got enough to maintain already! I also prefer hub-motors for less wear and maintenance of drive-train and other mechanicals.

My preference for spokes, is simply an extension of my desires for quick easy maintenance. I simply find it easier and quicker to jus ping my spokes daily, for signs of looseness and true running, and they may occasionally need moment more for an adjustment,.... like tire pressures, a cable, brake pad, or whatever. A cast wheel of any kind, would require more daily time in closely inspecting for cracks or fractures that may still remain unseen until a traumatic failure. To neglect such daily inspection,..... could be as foolish as neglecting to regularly check the high-tech synthetic oil level in my car!!!

IF technology can provide a DURABLE and DEPENDABLE product relative to cost, with less time and attention to maintenance and care,... it will prevail as a "standard", NOT a replacement for a proven existing standard. Costs are ALSO relevant to those standards, for both manufactures and consumers. Seems to have taken FOREVER for aluminum to approach a "standard" for bicycles,... even with it's long history of proven and dependable strong lightweight success in so many other applications and industries. New technologies DO provide an alternative to "standards",... depending on personal criteria, needs, wants or desires.

Your "heavy rider" criteria, and other considerations,.... has lead you to consider "alternatives". Simply consider them closely and with due care.

 

[MadRhino]

Yep, but evidence is not enough for dreamers.

They say they don't want to tune their wheels, nor pay a tech to do it. So, their solution is filling dumps with broken wheels, buying a new one everytime they hit. Disposable is a way of life nowadays, that might turn to a way of death some day. We just can't recycle everything the "disposable" generation is consuming.

 

[cycleops612]

Yep, to be fair, ES is nominally an enthusiast site & we consumers value their input, but its not heresy to have another life & to want something that just gets the job done.


Even so, wouldnt a true enthusiast rather be riding than fixing stuff and waiting on parts?


Their comments would leave most readers feeling very dubious about spokes - me included. I was ambivalent in my OP - it was simply re heavy riders.

I bought a friend a brand new bike to get to work with,.... it lasted him less than one year!!! I failed to acknowledge that he was totally incapable of ANY simple care or maintenance, including simply checking air pressure in the tires occasionally. And he certainly wasn't going to pay any mechanic to repair or maintain what he considered to be a "disposable"!!!! ONE YEAR,... and every component was worthless!!!! The same bike,.... would last me SEVERAL YEARS, with few replacements beyond items of normal lifetime wear. Regardless of initial cost, $1000 or $100, a bicycle by it's very nature, won't last any longer, if not maintained or cared for. The most minimal,... an old single speed, "coaster brake", heavy chained, wheeled and tired with a tough steel frame,.... is the standby favorite of parents, jus because of it's minimal need for care, but it's still not care-free! And neither are autos, motorcycles, or scooters,... which may also be badly abused, by those like my friend above! This factor alone, may see wonderful technologies unused in favor of current less costly "disposable" alternatives. UGH!

The very nature of an e-bike, requires even MORE care, maintenance, AND CONCERN,.... batteries alone can be a serious issue!!! While my friend is envious of my simple e-cruiser,.... I WILL NOT encourage him in such direction. It's simply not worth it to him as a "disposable"! Nor would it be SAFE!!!!

My initial consideration in a motorized bicycle was actually a gas-powered 2-stroker!!!! After a HUGE GREAT deal of consideration, I opted for electric for most of the same reasons I have chosen electric chain-saws, electric weed-wackers, and electric trimmers,.... to avoid the added maintenance and care of engines, got enough to maintain already! I also prefer hub-motors for less wear and maintenance of drive-train and other mechanicals.

My preference for spokes, is simply an extension of my desires for quick easy maintenance. I simply find it easier and quicker to jus ping my spokes daily, for signs of looseness and true running, and they may occasionally need moment more for an adjustment,.... like tire pressures, a cable, brake pad, or whatever. A cast wheel of any kind, would require more daily time in closely inspecting for cracks or fractures that may still remain unseen until a traumatic failure. To neglect such daily inspection,..... could be as foolish as neglecting to regularly check the high-tech synthetic oil level in my car!!!

IF technology can provide a DURABLE and DEPENDABLE product relative to cost, with less time and attention to maintenance and care,... it will prevail as a "standard", NOT a replacement for a proven existing standard. Costs are ALSO relevant to those standards, for both manufactures and consumers. Seems to have taken FOREVER for aluminum to approach a "standard" for bicycles,... even with it's long history of proven and dependable strong lightweight success in so many other applications and industries. New technologies DO provide an alternative to "standards",... depending on personal criteria, needs, wants or desires.

Your "heavy rider" criteria, and other considerations,.... has lead you to consider "alternatives". Simply consider them closely and with due care.

re "the same reasons I have chosen electric chain-saws, electric weed-wackers, and electric trimmers,.... to avoid the added maintenance and care of engines, got enough to maintain already! I also prefer hub-motors... "

Ditto. The ~average prosperous family guy has an ICE; car, weed whacker, skidoo/jet-ski, chainsaw, generator, motorbike, edger, trimmer, outboard... - all of which u r lucky to start easily after a few weeks sabbatical, let alone a winter. Then there is; checking oil, fueling, getting & waiting on parts, awry plans.... 5 iceS in the shed, & there go u weekends.

Living with an electric cord has its downsides, but at least its a known. For occasional off grid apps, maybe live with the hassle of using a generator - one motor and inexpensive power tools, rather than multi ICEs and expensive.

We do have 220v here in oz tho - so sub 3kw (~15 amp) apps are ok as electric.

I hear u also on batteries, which is why i like lifepo4 pouch cell paks. So robust u can treat them like shit & still get way over 1000 full charges. If that costs me a kilo or two, so be it. Even power users should be able to live with 3c and decent range, which is doable on lifepo4. I admit tho, fast charging isnt a deal breaker for me.

 

[DRMousseau]

We do have 220v here in oz tho - so sub 3kw (~15 amp) apps are ok as electric.

Something that many here in the states fail to realize, is as you noted,.... MOST of world outside the states, uses 220vac as "standard". AND,.. it's not the only "standard" in majority use, that those in the states have REFUSED to acknowledge, consider, or adapt to!!!!! For all of my life since grade school in the 50's, we were taught metric "conversion" as something we must know, "...because someday we will be using metrics as a standard." And the late 50's even saw a refinement of U.S. customary units in relationship to metrics by some now antiquated international agreement. Still, over half a century later,... I'm still waiting!!!! And I'm astonished that every generation since, STILL has a problem of arrogance with this. Public opposition is SO bad, that it has deeply affected neighboring Canada in it's efforts of metrification, and has greatly conflicted with neighboring Mexico (and many others around the world) for well over a century!!!

While there's a HUGE rejection of metrics in the states,.... no one can tell you how many cubic inch displacement their foreign made Chevy or Ford now has! "Oh I don't know, it's a 3.6L V6!" And few can tell you what "caliber" their current ammunition is,... "It's a 9mm man!" (.38 cal) or "it's a 762!"(ugh! ya mean 7.62mm,... and that's a .30 cal OMG!) They run to the store for a 2-litre Coke and a gal of milk. Oh,.... the stores a mile down the road and the speed limit is 45mph!!! No one can tell you how many feet are in a mile, nor how many meters either. And no one knows why we drive a boat from the right side, and drive a car from the left side! Who cares!!!! And in spite of near overwhelming metric use,.... you'll be hard pressed to find a any tape measure with a metric scale regardless of cost. Well, aside from a cheap $1.99 import. (UGH!)

This arrogance is so pervasive, that I believe its totally unfathomable by those outside the U.S.!!! While bicycles and e-bikes may be or are becoming a major mode of transportation in most countries, here in the U.S., they are considered children's toys and have no business on the streets!!! Graphene and other "new" technologies,... will see more use and advancement in many other applications LONG before bicycles and e-bikes do, here in the states anyways. Well,.... as long as we continue to import "children's toys" and maintain an arrogant ignorance of the true standards of majority!!!

 

[cycleops612]

We do have 220v here in oz tho - so sub 3kw (~15 amp) apps are ok as electric.

Something that many here in the states fail to realize, is as you noted,.... MOST of world outside the states, uses 220vac as "standard". AND,.. it's not the only "standard" in majority use, that those in the states have REFUSED to acknowledge, consider, or adapt to!!!!! For all of my life since grade school in the 50's, we were taught metric "conversion" as something we must know, "...because someday we will be using metrics as a standard." And the late 50's even saw a refinement of U.S. customary units in relationship to metrics by some now antiquated international agreement. Still, over half a century later,... I'm still waiting!!!! And I'm astonished that every generation since, STILL has a problem of arrogance with this. Public opposition is SO bad, that it has deeply affected neighboring Canada in it's efforts of metrification, and has greatly conflicted with neighboring Mexico (and many others around the world) for well over a century!!!

While there's a HUGE rejection of metrics in the states,.... no one can tell you how many cubic inch displacement their foreign made Chevy or Ford now has! "Oh I don't know, it's a 3.6L V6!" And few can tell you what "caliber" their current ammunition is,... "It's a 9mm man!" (.38 cal) or "it's a 762!"(ugh! ya mean 7.62mm,... and that's a .30 cal OMG!) They run to the store for a 2-litre Coke and a gal of milk. Oh,.... the stores a mile down the road and the speed limit is 45mph!!! No one can tell you how many feet are in a mile, nor how many meters either. And no one knows why we drive a boat from the right side, and drive a car from the left side! Who cares!!!! And in spite of near overwhelming metric use,.... you'll be hard pressed to find a any tape measure with a metric scale regardless of cost. Well, aside from a cheap $1.99 import. (UGH!)

This arrogance is so pervasive, that I believe its totally unfathomable by those outside the U.S.!!! While bicycles and e-bikes may be or are becoming a major mode of transportation in most countries, here in the U.S., they are considered children's toys and have no business on the streets!!! Graphene and other "new" technologies,... will see more use and advancement in many other applications LONG before bicycles and e-bikes do, here in the states anyways. Well,.... as long as we continue to import "children's toys" and maintain an arrogant ignorance of the true standards of majority!!!

Interesting to hear it said by a yank. I have a smart yank mate, & he is a die hard luddite about it too. Strange?

To a carpenter, e.g., most lengths are a simple number - 3450 e.g. - thats all you have to say/write. i.e. - it means 3450 millimeters, which is accurate to `one thousandth of a meter/~yard.

We converted from the british system here in oz- gradually, & it seemed to me, the hardest for business was pounds & pence to metric dollars - which u r already blessed with - AND - we pretty much did it pre computers - cash registers & petrol bowsers were mechanical at the time (1966 for currency).

No one with sense here would now buy a non metric machine (like a car), & a new tool kit for it. Chrysler sell a few - 300Cs, Jeeps, .., but local fords & gm are ~all euro/asian division models. Even your standards are a mess - us gallons vs imperial gallons, 2 type of bolts....

I had wondered how this attitude affected canada.

And yes, similarly, i had thought the resurgence of bikes in USA, would seem instructive as to how the US has isolated itself. Good luck finding a bike using US bolts.

By now, all us machine tools would work fine in either. The cost would be slight by comparison with earlier converters. I doubt it would bother boing at all e.g.