Greyp eBikes

[Chalo]

Police do not hassle anyone on ebikes.

They probably won't, until all of a sudden they do. And when that happens, it will likely be because the illegal-moto guys spoiled the situation for all e-bicyclists.

If pocket bikes had stayed within the realm of clowns and Shriners, they wouldn't have gotten laws written specifically to prohibit them along with anything approximately like them. But some dorks just had to push their luck, and the heavy hand of the law came in and eradicated all pocket bikes from the street.

 

[jansevr]

so that's what this is all about chalo? you are just pissed because you can't ride your pocket bike on the street anymore? :lol:

 

[Ypedal]

it's about the rider, not the ride.. imo.

yes, a few of my bikes are 100v ev motorcycles on bicycle frames, but i ALWAYS ride them with respect, helmet, gloves, proper bike setup to handle it, follow the flow of traffic and never exceed posted speed limits.

but, some people are idiots, as pointed out above, the pocket bikes however, were unfit for human consumption on every level except a race track.....

quiet, clean, bicycle like function and form, will have a much larger tolerance level by the popo imo.

The greyp is a marvel and a top notch job imo, it will handle medium to large riders without falling apart.. looks good , to me.. i just with it was less expensive.. but that is what it is.

 

[Ypedal]

so that's what this is all about chalo? you are just pissed because you can't ride your pocket bike on the street anymore? :lol:

i would pay to see chalo on a pocket bike.. seriously.. 10$ paypal donation up for grabs for a short youtube of this.

 

[jansevr]

ill throw $10 in as well. anyone else? what do you say chalo?

 

[HAROX]

^^^this is going to be the easiest $1000 you ever earned chalo. count me in.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I like you Chalo. But I'm afraid I will have to continue to disagree on several of the issues presented.

I understood, as soon as I saw the Greyp, that if you take the chain and pedals away and replace them with foot-rests, it is an off-road E-motorcycle (like christerljungs 100V GNG)...I say "off-road" because it does not have turn signals, headlight/tail-light, brake lights etc (along with registration/license plate/insurance).

During a gas price spike-up a few years ago, some local college students bought cheap Chinese scooters. The 150cc scooters were physically larger, and got over 60-MPG. The less-expensive 50cc scooters were physically smaller, and even though they got around 80-MPG, they were so weak as to be VERY dangerous in traffic.

The 50cc scooters are 100% street legal, but calling them scooters is a joke, they are sewing machines with two doughnuts for wheels....and yet, if somebody I know wants one, I will warn them towards another option, but then if they are still set on a 50cc scooter, I will warn them to wear a helmet and take slower side streets.

You seem adamant that E-bicycles should never have as much power as an E-motorcycle. Perhaps because you philosophically do not hold E-bike riders responsible for their actions? If someone is misbehaving in a dangerous manner, should we limit the power of the product...because the rider can't help himself?

 

[Chalo]

Once an e-bike is categorically faster and more powerful than a bicycle, then it isn't a bicycle any more. That doesn't make it wrong in any way; but it does make it a moped or a motorcycle.

And if an e-bike is a moped or a motorcycle, then it needs to get registered and insured as local laws require, and it needs to stay out of bicycle facilities-- just like the stinking gas bike versions. I don't understand the difficulty you guys have with applying motorcycle rules to motorcycles. The special exemptions and privileges for electric bicycles are for BICYCLES, not motorcycles. Pedals on an e-motorcycle don't automatically make it a bicycle any more than pedals stuck on a Hayabusa make it into a bicycle.

EDIT:

To put it another way, the limitation is not on how much power or speed you can have available, or what you can ride. There is no limit on those things. The limit is on the definition of a bicycle, on what is or is not allowed to be defined as a bicycle and thus be subject to bicycle rules and rights-of-way.

The easy way to solve this, legally, is to fall back to a bicycle being a pedal-powered vehicle only, and anything with a motor being a motor vehicle. This regression might become inevitable, because of the relentlessness with which e-bikers try to pass off e-motorcycles as bicycles. The way to avoid such regression is for e-bikers to respect existing performance classifications regarding electric bicycles, mopeds, and motorcycles. Electric power doesn't mean that the rules somehow don't apply.

I'd personally rather get a moped plate for my own e-bike than share bicycle-only facilities with motorcycles.

 

[jkbrigman]

i would pay to see chalo on a pocket bike.. seriously.. 10$ paypal donation up for grabs for a short youtube of this.

Ditto: I'm in for $10. Make the check out to the Chalo Awesomeness Fund?

 

[spinningmagnets]

I don't understand the difficulty you guys have with applying motorcycle rules to motorcycles.

The Greyp is advertised as having a "street mode" that limits the speed to 16-MPH. Hopefully it can be adjusted to the 20-MPH federal US limit. That being said, the law is very clear that there are no off-road speed or power limits.

Here in farm country, it is 100% legal for an unlicensed 14-year old child to drive an uninsured and unregistered car on a farm that is private property, but...as soon as they reach the gate, the DMV rules apply.

The laws vary from place to place, but the law is also a two-edged sword that cuts both ways. Imagine a police officer cites me for riding a motorcycle on the bicycle path, even though he acknowleges the existence of the pedals. If the local judge sees the pictures and throws the case out because the judge says that the Greyp is a bicycle, then in this state...the Greyp is a bicycle.

It may not be that way in Austin, so I will have to accept what you report about the laws there.

 

[Chalo]

Here's what a Texas judge would have to be basing his or her decision upon:

(24) "Electric bicycle" means a bicycle that:

(A) is designed to be propelled by an electric motor, exclusively or in combination with the application of human power;

(B) cannot attain a speed of more than 20 miles per hour without the application of human power; and

(C) does not exceed a weight of 100 pounds.

Like I said before, the details vary from place to place, but in no place I've ever heard of do pedals alone make an e-bike into a bicycle. What makes it an electric bicycle is performance limitations.

 

[wojtek]

talked to my colleague from Belgium at work today, he said they are going to start controlling electric bicycles in Belgium for their power and conformity to the law - just heads up to my neighbours

 

[neptronix]

I'm a bit late to the game here, but wow. Talk about an ebiker's ebike. The RIMAC/Greyborg dudes are putting out some amazing stuff at the moment. I haven't been this excited about ebike development for a while now.

 

[jkbrigman]

I'm a bit late to the game here, but wow. Talk about an ebiker's ebike. The RIMAC/Greyborg dudes are putting out some amazing stuff at the moment. I haven't been this excited about ebike development for a while now.

+1!

By producing this bike, RIMAC has legitimized (to the public, that is) the Greyborg parts they have been selling to us already as early adopters. I'm sure it feels good right now to be a Greyborg owner and see a somewhat similar version of what you built being sold for $8000US.

 

[flathill]

Awesome bike! Where else can you get a RIMAC designed battery SYSTEM? A123 batteries don't have they highest energy density but their power density is still fking rad (and useful for small high power safe-r voltage packs)

What I don't get is why some pics show the cromotor and others show the unreleased larger diameter motor...which is it?

Chalo: You are right but no one cares. Take your battle to the street while the rest of us enjoy the golden days of ebiking. In the future we can all look back and blame ninnies like Chalo for ruining it. Police state inspections. Portable dynos. Hahahah whatever! We will be flying by then in our "illegal" pedal powered electric planes with no license. Then you can get really worked up and your heart will explode. Have you felt the pain in your left arm yet?

 

[neptronix]

This is the golden age, for sure. Enjoy it while it lasts. Before everything is banned just because of some A hole in government that's on a rampage..

 

[Arlo1]

You mean a Chalo gets Into the gov....

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Screw the moped, I'll take a Greyp!

8)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/new-technology/screw-your-moped-im-taking-the-greyp

 

[Chalo]

You mean a Chalo gets Into the gov....

What the heck is wrong with you? I'm saying that you have a legal obligation to do the same things that gas moped riders do if you have an e-moped, and the same thing that gas motorcycle riders do if you have an e-motorcycle. The law is already there, and has been there for longer than we've been riding e-bikes. I didn't make it up myself.

The authorities cut low speed e-bicycles one little exemption, and so now you think anything with an e-motor is a bicycle? You must be deranged. Only bicycles are bicycles. All others must register.

 

[Icewrench]

Outlaws do not care.

 

[flathill]

Thats the point
Its a motorcycle that looks like a bicycle but
Better than either
1+1=2+
And the best part of it all is you dont have to register

On mars

 

[bee]

I think you will find that a lot of us aren't too concerned with laws or "legal obligation"

If you look at the transcripts from ~2000 when this legislation was being discussed and written by Transport Canada, you will find that engineers and industry experts were consulted to determine sane power limits and various restrictions.

Guess who provided the industry experts? Ford, GM, Chrysler, to name a few.

These are the people who decided that our e-bikes should be limited to 500w, when the average person easily makes >1000w, or limiting motor speed to 32km/h when an average cyclist can do 40+km/h without a motor.

The laws in Canada were created to increase profits for the mass vehicle manufacturers and to stifle competition by limiting what individuals can bring to market.

Do you think this process was any different when your country was establishing laws?

 

[neptronix]

Our system is just like that. Many laws are written by corporations, for corporations.

So for a bicycle, you can legally have 25cc power.. what if the frame is heavier and it has bigger wheels and brakes? ok, then you can have >1000cc. :lol:

 

[wojtek]

that is what i said few posts back.. the law and regulations dont make any sense.

just think in whose best interest is it to keep this nonsense ? unfortunately oil / car industry at first...

I commute to work around 75kms+ [46miles] a day. If i were to use "legal" electric bicycle, it would take me 3h!!!
I would not use electric bike, but my car...

If you agree with the current law, what are you doing on this forum? Someone appointed you an ebike law enforcement officer here? You said once that in your opinion this bike is illegal. It is enough. Go rest. Make some pancakes

 

[Chalo]

that is what i said few posts back.. the law and regulations dont make any sense.

just think in whose best interest is it to keep this nonsense ? unfortunately oil / car industry at first...

So are you saying that all motorcycles should be unregulated, uninsured, and uninspected even if they are homemade? Or are you suggesting that merely being electric powered makes a motorcycle so special that it should be above the law?

I'll tell you straight: Real bicyclists have their interests at stake. Allowing motorcycles to usurp scarce bicycle infrastructure and hard-won privileges is not OK, no matter what fuel the motorcycles are consuming. And for legit motorcyclists to be held to their obligations while people riding hokey homemade electric motorcycles get a pass is not cool either.

The automakers don't give a flip. The CPSC standard was made to fit ZAP, Currie/USPD, Charger, etc.-- basically the definition was crafted to accommodate the commercial e-bike models already on the market at that time. You can think that's crooked or not, but it's not the work of the auto industry in any identifiable way.