Hair pin wound motor

[zappy]

I have been looking at hair pin winding for my double pie and found this.https://www.dcpowerinc.com/dc-power-vs-competition If you scroll down to the denso hair pin alternator. It seems very similar to the GM volts stator but in a more bike friendly sized package/price range? Could something like this be used for an in runner type build?
Zappy

 

[spinningmagnets]

Looks interesting. I don't know enough about this to comment yet.

Hairpin designs are vastly different than alternators designed around common Slot-wound stators, as output is controlled by the rotor and NOT the stator. Speaking of rotors, the Hairpin designs use a 16 pole rotor versus the 12 pole rotors used in typical S-wound and Slot-wound designs. This provides a greater magnetic field and higher operating efficiencies.

 

[major]

Looks interesting. I don't know enough about this to comment yet.

Hairpin designs are vastly different than alternators designed around common Slot-wound stators, as output is controlled by the rotor and NOT the stator. Speaking of rotors, the Hairpin designs use a 16 pole rotor versus the 12 pole rotors used in typical S-wound and Slot-wound designs. This provides a greater magnetic field and higher operating efficiencies.

This is interesting. I found the quote in the link in post#1. It would appear that both types are field controlled via the rotor thru the slip rings. And since the rotor provides the field strength, I don't understand "greater magnetic field", since the 16 poles would increase frequency, not field. Higher operating efficiencies typically result from improved copper utilization (better slot fill and less end-turn resistance).

DC armatures have been wound this way (using hairpins) for ages. The AC machines in these sizes are just now figuring out how to do it. The Remy motors use it calling it HVH (high voltage hairpin) technology. Ford has followed suit in their EV/HEV motors, so I hear. Also there is an interesting induction motor/generator called eAssist from GM. Ref: http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2676-eAssist-AC-Induction-Motor

 

[spinningmagnets]

Ahah! LFP is a senior poster on elmoto.net, E-motorcycles forum. The GM Malibu Hybrid uses what we called in the Navy a "motor-generator" (actually an alternator that can occasionally be used as a starter motor and engine-assister through its belt), but...when used as only its motor function, it's a great motor for an E-motorcycle. About the size of a very large truck alternator, plus it has liquid-cooling, and can be run up to 10,000-RPMs with 400V if desired. (Kv-25? 1,800-RPMs at 72V)

Interesting stuff...

Brand new it's $620 with a $200 core charge, but...if you find one at the salvage yard from a wrecked Malibu hybrid...you just might be able to pick it up at a pull your part for under $100. One poster accessed a parts supplier for salvage vehicles, the type of company that supplies repair shops, and he bought one for $155 plus shipping.

I searched http://car-part.com/ and found one from a 2012 Buick Lacrosse 2.4L eAssist for $155 shipped.

 

[circuit]

This is very interesting. Would love to try one out. $155 seems more than affordable.
I just could not understand what is the torque at motor and not crank shaft.
From data seen on this picture:
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/2012LaCrosse_eAssist1054.jp_.jpg
It looks like total power is 11kW (107Nm @ 1000 rpm crank). But if crank goes up to 7000 rpm.. 77kW?...

 

[major]

This is very interesting. Would love to try one out. $155 seems more than affordable.
I just could not understand what is the torque at motor and not crank shaft.
From data seen on this picture:
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/2012LaCrosse_eAssist1054.jp_.jpg
It looks like total power is 11kW (107Nm @ 1000 rpm crank). But if crank goes up to 7000 rpm.. 77kW?...

From the elmoto thread it is at about a 2 to 1 ratio. So you'd need like 1000Hz. Finding an inverter to drive it would be the trick.

 

[h0tr0d]

I have been looking at hair pin winding for my double pie and found this.https://www.dcpowerinc.com/dc-power-vs-competition If you scroll down to the denso hair pin alternator. It seems very similar to the GM volts stator but in a more bike friendly sized package/price range? Could something like this be used for an in runner type build?
Zappy

These guys seem to have started the "motor" design by 99% copper fill, which seems really smart since most losses come from copper...
"How many amps do we need?"; "Wire for that is X"; "Make it square for max copper fill"; "Fill the rest of the space with iron lams"; "Done"