Ham radio and ebiking

[fifthmass]

Is anyone here into ham radio? I just got back into hamming after being off the air for about 10 years.

I have tried doing some simple bicycle mobile operating mainly on VHF and UHF frequencies. Works pretty good but a good antenna mount and using the bike battery for power would probably make for better range and operating duration. I know Austin sells a DC to DC converter that would work with the Ping pack and my radio (2 amps at 12 volts). A good antenna mount would be helpful.

Has anyone here tried mounting ham (or even CB...) radios and/or antennas on their ebikes?

regards,
Bill

 

[TylerDurden]

Not radio person myself, but I can attest that the RFI from controllers can be strong.

 

[fifthmass]

Not radio person myself, but I can attest that the RFI from controllers can be strong.

That has not been an issue (so far) with running VHF (2m) and UHF(70cm) on FM. I don't anticipate operating mobile HF SSB where RFI would be more noticeable.

regards,
Bill

 

[Alan B]

There are at least a few ham radio operators on ES. And some hams who are not radio operators...

I have not tried it yet on my ebike, but I have run 2 meters on a pedal bike. Was hard due to the need to breathe. Not so hard on an ebike. I also did it on a motorcycle. The trick is having a balanced antenna. The bike is not a reasonable groundplane, so your antenna system needs to provide a counterpoise. Quarterwave radials sticking out doesn't work well on a bike (porcupine effect). Some antennas are half wave and need very little counterpoise. 5/8 wave antennas are particularly bad, they go off resonance when missing a good groundplane. Radials can be bent downward.

A handheld on with rubber duck works but won't provide much range. On my motorcycle I had a handheld on the handlebars so I could control it, speakers and microphone in my full face helmet, and push to talk near the left thumb. On the back rack I had a 30 watt amplifier underneath and at the top corner of the back seatrest I had a halfwave 2 meter antenna. That would cover a few tens of miles in rolling terrain and hundreds of miles from a hilltop.

Interference drops off with frequency, so the higher bands are not nearly as problematic. Also we run FM on those rigs and it is fairly tolerant.

Now lower frequency operation (aka HF) is much more difficult. It is rarely done from fullsize motorcycles. I know folks doing it from tricycles and bicycles, see the Buddipole dot com website for folks interested in ultra portable/mobile HF. Most operate stationary, but some do operate mobile. And with the ebike's battery you could even run some POWER. I know Budd himself runs 500 watts from his trike occasionally. I don't think he has electrified the trike yet motive wise but we are working on that!!

WB6ZQZ, now W6AKB

 

[grindz145]

Yeah man, huge radio nerd here. KC2BZM.

Knoxie is really big into it too, we did a little talk about it on the second part of his podcast interview.

 

[Ricky_nz]

I've only done it years ago on a pedal bike but should get round to doing it on a my ebikes.
On the pedal bike breathing/talking was a problem. I imagine on an ebike wind noise might be a problem.
I have a 15V-80V to 12V, 8A converter which is way overkill for LED lights but should work great for the radios.

You can mount a decent 2m whip off the back axle area and it didn't get in the way much. Can't remember exactly what the aerial was but I'm sure it was a colinear of some sort. The bracket was just a small right angle piece.
ZL2RW

 

[amberwolf]

I used to be KA5TWP, but haven't done anything in many years, and no longer have any equipment (when I did, it was all old tube stuff; heathkit TX/RX set and a big Hammarlund RX, forgot the name of the other one). I was only the basic license anyway, so all I could do was Morse, no voice or SSTV or anything.

I guess I let it lapse because the internet kinda did most of what I liked about Ham; it let me talk with people all over the world....

I never even thought of setting up a bike with gear, though (as big as my gear was I'd've had to use a trike or a trailer, though).

 

[Alan B]

Morse code no longer required, tests are randomly selected from published question pools, VHF/UHF is quite useful in a disaster and for a more local group of friends to call on (like when you need some help with an injured foot). The internet does do some of the things Ham Radio did, but the two work well together. Lots of almost working radios to fix and keep costs down.

I do plan to put at least a small rig on the ebike, and perhaps APRS (the packet radiolocation system). It could be quite useful for a number of things. After we have that big earthquake in California an ebike may be the BEST way to get home. With down power lines, and all the overpass and bridge approaches being broken the SUVs will probably be stuck. A bike or light motorcycle will be about the only thing moving.

I suppose I should set up solar panels and batteries at home so I can "refuel" my ebike without AC power during the weeks of disarray after the quake.

Keep your ham radio ready and batteries charged!

 

[Green Machine]

Has anyone here tried mounting ham (or even CB...) radios and/or antennas on their ebikes?

regards,
Bill

Hamming and ebiking are two activities that should remain completely separate. Sort of like water skiing and fishing...they dont mix well.

 

[Alan B]

Has anyone here tried mounting ham (or even CB...) radios and/or antennas on their ebikes?

regards,
Bill

Hamming and ebiking are two activities that should remain completely separate. Sort of like water skiing and fishing...they dont mix well.

Eric, are you experienced in this area?

I don't agree on this one.

Ham Radio and motorcycling has been used very effectively together to provide capabilities that neither separately has. A properly mounted radio on the bike can be operated more safely than a hands free cellphone. Helmet mounted speakers and microphone and thumb operated push to talk on my motorcycle allowed me to operate safely while shifting through the gears and operating the motorcycle without difficulty. Operations need not take place while in motion, if there is a reason to avoid that. Putting a ham radio on an ebike will introduce a lot more people in the Ham community to the capability of ebikes which could be helpful. Plus it can add safety and some additional fun. You are less likely to drive too fast when having a pleasant conversation with friends on the radio.

 

[Green Machine]

Ham Radio and motorcycling has been used very effectively together to provide capabilities that neither separately has. A properly mounted radio on the bike can be operated more safely than a hands free cellphone. Helmet mounted speakers and microphone and thumb operated push to talk on my motorcycle allowed me to operate safely while shifting through the gears and operating the motorcycle without difficulty. Operations need not take place while in motion, if there is a reason to avoid that. Putting a ham radio on an ebike will introduce a lot more people in the Ham community to the capability of ebikes which could be helpful. Plus it can add safety and some additional fun. You are less likely to drive too fast when having a pleasant conversation with friends on the radio.

You guys are from a totally different planet...enough said.

 

[Alan B]

Ham Radio and motorcycling has been used very effectively together to provide capabilities that neither separately has. A properly mounted radio on the bike can be operated more safely than a hands free cellphone. Helmet mounted speakers and microphone and thumb operated push to talk on my motorcycle allowed me to operate safely while shifting through the gears and operating the motorcycle without difficulty. Operations need not take place while in motion, if there is a reason to avoid that. Putting a ham radio on an ebike will introduce a lot more people in the Ham community to the capability of ebikes which could be helpful. Plus it can add safety and some additional fun. You are less likely to drive too fast when having a pleasant conversation with friends on the radio.

You guys are from a totally different planet...enough said.

In a sense that's true - Hams were doing many of the techie things years ago that the general population now has access to with cellphones and so forth - and they were not understood by the general population at the time. So rather than being from a different planet Hams might be more accurately characterized as being from the future. On the other hand many sub-hobbies in Ham Radio are doing things the "old fashioned" way, such as using tubes and building radios with a handfull of transistors. So it spans a wide range of technological time. Ham Radio has been opened up to the population by lowering the testing requirements. But still it is not for everyone.

 

[Green Machine]

Alan,

Just curious...you think hands free laws apply to hams?

Can you drive your car talking on your ham and not get a ticket cuz you can say its some kind of CB?

Can you get blue tooth for ham?

 

[oldhaq]

ran a 27mhz cb on a pushie in my early teens through a 9ft fibreglass whip off 8x AA cells for a bit of a laugh, it worked ok got some contacts.
Still fire up some SSB radios every now and then, anyone want to try for some e-mobile-mobile DX? Interstate possibly but international might help to run a linear off a 3s lipo pack, though I've heard some stateside stations bending the needle here of late. If there was a time to try it'd be during the current solar cycle sunspot max. See you on 27.355 or 27.555
73's, beers and cheers
43HB11

 

[Alan B]

Alan,

Just curious...you think hands free laws apply to hams?

Can you drive your car talking on your ham and not get a ticket cuz you can say its some kind of CB?

Can you get blue tooth for ham?

Interpreting hands free laws varies from state to state. They were generally not written to apply to ham radios, but in some cases may. Handheld radios are similar to cellphones in some law enforcement's eyes. Standard Mobile radios with speakers and handheld microphones are generally not interpreted to be similar to cellphones. But again it varies. Hands free laws are full of exceptions, too, for surprising things. Calling 911 for example, or "professional drivers" are often exempted.

I don't recommend using a handheld on a bicycle or e-bike.

There are some bluetooth systems for Ham Radio. Bluetooth is a complicated proprietary licensed protocol that doesn't seem to work too well even on cellphones or PDAs (at least that has been my experience). Very few Ham Radios have it built in so it is not as easy to deploy. I've seen at least a couple of products that could be used. Standard Bluetooth products are generally lacking in the push-to-talk function that Ham Radios generally require, so it requires something extra.

 

[Alan B]

ran a 27mhz cb on a pushie in my early teens through a 9ft fibreglass whip off 8x AA cells for a bit of a laugh, it worked ok got some contacts.
Still fire up some SSB radios every now and then, anyone want to try for some e-mobile-mobile DX? Interstate possibly but international might help to run a linear off a 3s lipo pack, though I've heard some stateside stations bending the needle here of late. If there was a time to try it'd be during the current solar cycle sunspot max. See you on 27.355 or 27.555
73's, beers and cheers
43HB11

I have not tried it, but AM and SSB at 27 mhz would likely get a lot if interference from an ebike's electrical systems. It should work when not running them, though. Also, 27 mhz antennas are likely to be more difficult on a bike. It is doable but standard vehicle antennas will probably require modifications to get a good match lacking the big iron groundplane.

We are all looking for the propagation to return. This solar minimum has broken a lot of records, and the bands have been poor for years. There is some activity but not like with good solar flux.

 

[rhitee05]

KC9EYC, licensed but not particularly active.

With regards to hands-free, hams generally enjoy quite a bit of leeway under the law. A lot of the hands-free laws are written narrowly to apply to telephones only, and while there's a chance a cop would still cite you, it should be dismissed in court. Also, some experienced officers might be familiar with hams (emergency response, search & rescue, etc) and be more forgiving if it's a gray area.

As Alan said, it wouldn't be a good idea to use a handheld radio or even a handheld mike on a bike. There are plenty of headsets available, and you could find one either integrated into a helmet or otherwise. You could set it up to be either voice-activated (VOX) or push-to-talk with a button on the handlebars.

I expect setting up a proper antenna to get reasonable range would be a bigger challenge than hands-free.

 

[torker]

KC0EMK here. Talked to France on VHF in 2000 Great cycle that was. I hope next year is good. I have also passed and received video on 434 Mhz from Ks. to Ill. Only thing about bicycle mobile besides the wind would be sitting so close to the antenna. 5 watts might not hurt you but I wouldn't want 30 or 50 watts close to my head. Although I think a human head resonates at about 300 Mhz so 2-meter might be safe Yes hams are nerds too. Just like ebikers :lol: I think the "ebike nerdcast" is pretty accurate. Ham radio is what got me into electronics in 98' "See" you on the bands 73s and 88s for the women.. Oh my wife is a ham too. KC0MDT

 

[Green Machine]

I think apple iphone with more and more unlimited plans out there..and seamless bluetooth will make the ham radio crowd even more fringe...especially ham radio ebikers...i think kids today will be more likely to text while ebiking than ham while riding.

The real problem i saw with hammers and ebiking is the antenna....that sounds dangerous..i imagine this big ole huge wirey thing that could get caught in your spokes and send you endo.

Also i imagined controller could interfere with signal.

And all that wiring....

But i am not a hammer and just chuckling at the imagery of riding with all that gear...but i know you guys probably got pretty tight solutions the size of CB's or something.

 

[torker]

And you would be amazed at what you can do with a tiny 5 watt handheld. I agree most of todays youth would rather text. But the thing about radio is that it is not full duplex meaning only one person can talk at a time so you are not "immersed" in a conversation like on a phone. So it is not as distracting. Can't beat ham radio during an emergency when cell towers might be wiped out. I bet ham is being used in Japan right now.

 

[nuevomexicano]

And you would be amazed at what you can do with a tiny 5 watt handheld. I agree most of todays youth would rather text. But the thing about radio is that it is not full duplex meaning only one person can talk at a time so you are not "immersed" in a conversation like on a phone. So it is not as distracting. Can't beat ham radio during an emergency when cell towers might be wiped out. I bet ham is being used in Japan right now.

You can't beat radio if people actually have radios. But few do in comparison to the huge number of cell phone users. In disasters, like the recent Japanese earthquake, the cell companies are fairly quick at putting up temporary towers from trucks. Restoring land line phone service is much slower.

 

[Alan B]

I think apple iphone with more and more unlimited plans out there..and seamless bluetooth will make the ham radio crowd even more fringe...especially ham radio ebikers...i think kids today will be more likely to text while ebiking than ham while riding.

The real problem i saw with hammers and ebiking is the antenna....that sounds dangerous..i imagine this big ole huge wirey thing that could get caught in your spokes and send you endo.

Also i imagined controller could interfere with signal.

And all that wiring....

But i am not a hammer and just chuckling at the imagery of riding with all that gear...but i know you guys probably got pretty tight solutions the size of CB's or something.

You don't need a lot of gear. A modern handheld radio is a bit larger than a cellphone, and the antenna is a few inches long. Interference is not a problem on the higher frequencies. They usually can run from 12 volts so if the battery is dead you can run it and charge it from a car battery. It will continue to work in a disaster. Cellphones are not very useable in most disasters, it generally takes weeks to months for the infrastructure to get repaired, and the capacity is inadequate for the oversold user base. There is a place for all these communications tools. A new handheld costs $150 or so and there is no monthly cost. Cellphones are hideously expensive over the long term and only designed for a fairly minimal "load" of users talking at once. Cellphone coverage is marginal at best, both my home and work are very poor coverage in the best times. Cellphone towers cover a very small footprint. Ham Radio repeaters cover many miles from one hilltop and form a social network type of communications which is better in a disaster than "dialing numbers". Each has a role and both will be useful in our disasters. People who actually prepare for disasters don't expect cellphones to be very useful, and they support Ham Radio which has consistently proven to work in these situations.

I carry a cellphone, but a Ham Radio handheld is not far away. I'll use whatever gets the job done, and if the disaster is significant the cellphone will get overloaded, towers will be down, or the battery will run out. The Ham Radio will keep on working, even without any infrastructure at all, as long as I can find 12 volts or AA batteries to feed it. Power should not be a problem on your ebike!

 

[knoxie]

Yes as Grindz pointed out, I am a very active radio ham and have been since 1990, I dont talk whilst I am on the move as the wind noise is an issue however I do take my handheld out with me in my topeak bag, its good fun just stop and connect up to where ever I like, you can link in to internet linked repeaters which is cool, so effectively me and Grindz can talk for free across the radio whilst we are out and about 4,000 mile range, there are a lot of amateurs on from all over the world and sure cell phones are killing the hobby, all the more reason for us all to keep using it.

 

[grindz145]

If you think that ham radio is just about talking to people on radios, you have no idea what ham radio is all about...

 

[Green Machine]

mmmm hand ham radio....gotta have one! Fits perfect in my mad max collection of dooms day devices to have in hand when one of those bombs hits.

Do you guys gotta link to handheld unit you recommend available to buy? Allen can you bring a couple of those handhelds to the race so we can use as walkie talkies?