Headway Group Purchase

Hello I also bought headway batteries and just got them in the mail in one piece the charger is labeled 220V-50 Hz and 48V 2A
and since I am in the US it should be 110V is this the wrong charger ? or do they work 110 to 220 ? I cut one of my 2 48V packs
open and the short black wire sas Charge on the BMS board so I asume the thinner black wire is to be used for the charger hookup ? Please let me know and THANKS Felix
 
you should remove that link, it is the reply box.
sounds like you got the wrong charger. is there a small switch next to the cord where it says 110-220V? what kinda cord does it have? pictures? you bot two 48V20Ah packs?
the charger negative is for the charger, and the other wires go to the controller.

you may be able to use the charger yet, but if there isn't a line voltage selection switch, you may have to replace it, but using 220 volts is not impossible. do you own your home or rent? you can bring 220V out of the service panel by attaching cable to 2 adjacent breakers, or add a pigtail to the dryer plug and bring it out around the side of the dryer.

or you can bring 220 out from the range plug too. but your wife will get on your case.
 
Also, thanks for the bms post Gary, us normal people need as many versions as we can get to finally get it. Maybe sombody should post that one in the reference section. It was just at the level I could understand, and would be a good one to send newbies to read.
 
Capripower said:
Hello I also bought headway batteries and just got them in the mail in one piece the charger is labeled 220V-50 Hz and 48V 2A
and since I am in the US it should be 110V is this the wrong charger ? or do they work 110 to 220 ? quote]
Capripower said:
The pictures I posted of the charger are from the 48 V charger. It also says 220V 50 Hz but it came with a typical 110 volt plug . I plugged it in and it works fine. I did cut off the other battery charger end though and will put anderson powerpoles on it instead. The polarity was properly labeled on the bottom of the charger but if you want to be sure open it up to confirm - see my photo above.
Larry
 
So yes I opened the charger and and it looks like the cord is a common US 2 wire utility cord with a us plug and the charger looks exactly like the one pictured on one of the earlier pages . I plugged it in my 110 household outlet and the red diode came on .No load on it.
about the link it happened when I was dragging what I thought was a smily face over and know i am stuck and cant remove it!!
Ha just figured it out !! :D
I am also new ( 2-years ) to computing and Englisch is my second language to boot so forgive me for all the funny writing mistakes I will make ?! As a Swiss trained Type writer technician i am used to tinkering and improvising so thank you all for all the good help and advise . Which I will need plenty of to complete the electrivication of the recumbent KMX my son and I bought last year.
To charge the packs I only need to connect the thinner black negative wire and the red ons and it should work ???
Thanks Felix
 
Capripower said:
To charge the packs I only need to connect the thinner black negative wire and the red ons and it should work ???
Thanks Felix

I hooked the black wire labeled charger on the BMS to the negative charger wire and the red wire on the battery pack to the positive charger wire. There are two LED's on my charger - one comes on when plugged into the wall. The other one blinks when connected to the battery pack and goes off when it is done charging.
Larry
 
bikeelectric said:
Gary
Thanks for the detailed and clear explanation about how a BMS works. Where do I find out more about your BMS that have the LED's for each circuit ?

Larry

There is a "sticky" thread at the top of the page, but it is pretty long. I'd go back about 5-6 pages from the end, and start from there. That should give you enough info, I think.

-- Gary
 
dogman said:
Also, thanks for the bms post Gary, us normal people need as many versions as we can get to finally get it. Maybe sombody should post that one in the reference section. It was just at the level I could understand, and would be a good one to send newbies to read.

Thanks. :) It probably would be good to have a reference section, as this sort of thing comes up a lot. Another analogy that I have used to help understand what happens when a cell charges is with a water tank. Imagine you have an empty water tank sitting up off the ground. At the bottom of this tank is a hose that goes down to a pump on the ground. When you first start pumping water into that tank, the pump doesn't have to work very hard for water to get up into the tank. It basically just has to overcome the resistance of getting the water through the hose up into the tank. As the tank starts to fill up, however, the pump has to also overcome the back pressure of the water trying to get back out of the hose. The fuller the tank gets, the more back pressure there is to overcome. For the pump to be able to still fill the tank at the same rate, it needs to keep increasing the water pressure. If the pump can't increase the water pressure anymore, the fill rate will start to slow down. In a battery, the voltage is analogous to the water pressure in the above example, and the amount of water going into the tank is the same as the current that a charger is trying to put into the cell. So, the point is that a charger trying to put current into a cell is like the pump trying to put water into the tank. The size of the tank is analogous to the capacity of the cell. The size and resistance of the wires is roughly analogous to the diameter of the hose from the pump to the bottom of the tank.

If you go too far beyond these examples, the analogies start to come apart, but one other water-related one that works is to show what happens when you put cells in parallel. Imagine several water containers of different sizes/capacities, but all connected together at the bottom of the containers with hoses. If you then start filling one of the containers, the others will fill at the same time, and at all times, the level of each tank will be exactly the same, even though they are all different diameters. If you start out with the tanks at different levels, and then connect the hoses at the bottom, all will self-"balance" to the exact same level. With batteries that are placed in parallel, the same exact thing happens. The cells, even if they are of differing capacities, will equalize to the same voltage.

-- Gary
 
48v 20ahr

2 large black wires , 2 large red wires , 1small black wire

charger goes to ?


3355111791_382c94be0d_o.jpg
 
Red is positive side of battery pack

large black wires go to circuit board marked .... Bat - , 1 small black wire goes to circuit board marked .. charger -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10162336@N ... 4/sizes/l/

Anyone know which side of charger plug is Pos ... Neg ? Marked N or I

the plug appears to be the same as a computer monitor ... I cut a male side of a monitor circuit board .... these could be used ??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10162336@N ... 8/sizes/l/

I am assuming that the 220V onthe charger is a misprint ??
 
that would work, don't know if your question about polarity is real since it is right there on the charger case, you can use a small wire to connect the 2A charger to your red battery cable(or even right to the screw lug on the battery under the red cable attachment, either screw) from your plug in, and obviously the charger - goes to the other side, the main power path then is separate from your charge path.
 
thanks ..
got it charging ... I hope ...1 solid red light ...1 blinking red light

3356433671_3f6fe244e1_b.jpg
 
you lucky dog!

bill had both his packs inside the WAW when he came by yesterday,with both of his 36V20Ah packs behind him on each side against the rear transom of the velomobile. i wonder if they would have even have fit with the cases on. but he didn't get the linoleum in one of his packs, so that is a 'high energy density" pack because it weighs less. but i have some scrap vinyl goods here and styrofoam, so those batteries can live there forever after. i shoulda taken pictures. he has his shokster suspension pictures on ohpv.org now. we talk EV trash there too.
 
56.5V hot off the charger ..... 55.2V after 2hrs.

okay ?
 
what was the charger voltage? it can put out up to 62 volts without damaging the cells, that would be about 3.9V/cell which is pretty maxed. 59V would get you just over 3.68V/cell about as much as it needs to go to get them all totally full. measure them and see if any are very far apart in resting voltage now. as soon as you take a little charge out, they should all stabilize around 3.37V i would expect.
 
Since we are talking Batteries again does anyone know how 1c / 2c / 3c batteries are put together and how much amp. can you pull out of the different kinds at one time ? I have 2 48V 20 amp/h packs if I wire them parallel can that increase the amount of amps I can draw ?
also can anyone explain to me what a SHUNT is and where its used and how it works ?
Thanks very kindly have to go( boiling maple syrup all night)
Felix
 
charger voltage you can measure with the voltmeter probes directly off the black and red wires, while the charger is charging, or each end of the battery because the entire battery is pushed to that voltage while charging.

a shunt is a super low resistance resistor which is placed in the current path so that there is a voltage drop across the shunt according to ohms law. V=IR. this voltage is then fed into a meter to display it, as in the case of an ammeter, so that you can measure a large current in a large conductor without running the current through the meter, which would blow up if large currents went through it's small wires.

in controllers and these battery management systems, BMS, the current flowing out of the battery goes through a shunt made up of several large short bare wires soldered in line with the current path on the board, together besides one another close to the output. the BMS compares the voltage across the shunt to a reference voltage it creates from a zener diode and a resistor divider to establish the maximum voltage allowed across the shunt before the comparator (an active device essentially like an op amp, which has the shunt voltage and reference voltage as inputs) turns off the output FETs, causing current flow out of the battery to cease. so when the current is too high, that voltage drop becomes so large that the BMS knows to shut down.

in controllers, people add solder to fill in between the shunt wires, or additional wires in parallel with the shunt wires, to lower the shunt resistance, so that it takes a larger current flowing through the modified shunt resistor to cause the comparator to shut down the controller.

people also have done this to the BMS on some battery packs, in order to force more current from the packs under demand. this is usually done when the battery is small and the current that is needed is larger than can be supplied by the factory shunt setting.

you can see a lot of references to the shunt solder modification in various threads, but i think it started in the original crystallite controller modification thread.

you can put 2 packs in parallel and get twice the current like you said but then in your case the maximum current would be on the order of almost 200 amps at 5C times 58V is about 12kW, and that is more than even 8AWG can safely carry, except for a few minutes. you could still get the same power by arranging the packs in series, and raising the potential to 96V nominal, 115V fresh off the charger. people are currently trying to hack together controllers which will run at these voltages, since the Kelly controllers which operate at those voltages are pretty costly. the important thing about voltage is the way that brush less motors work, and the ultimate speed of the motor is a function of the voltage, and the torque (the 'strength' or push) is related to current. all motors have a voltage konstant, called K, so that Kv determines the ultimate motor speed. make sense?

when current flows through wires, there is a voltage drop along the wire which is directly related to the current flow, and heating of the wires (in the wiring harness and the motor also) follows current squared, so higher voltage is better because the power losses are lower, just that the technical problems of operating at higher voltages is more work, but that is where it is gonna go as more controllers get hacked up to run up there.

steveo is doing some real pushing of the boundaries there, and there is a thread on the 18FET infineon controller which people want to run up there and be able to handle 200A loads. it requires using higher voltage capacitors, and output driver FETs able to withstand the higher voltages, along with modifications to the circuitry to allow the internal circuits that supply current from the battery, for the pcb logic voltages down to usable levels for the logic circuitry to work at, from the higher voltages, by dropping the maximum voltage input to the voltage regulator that supplies current to the logic circuits on the pcb. that is what knuckles, phil, and geoff are doing on the infineon controller thread. hope this helps, they really are doing good stuff inside all that gobbledeegook.
 
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