Henry111's free tech support thread

[AussieJester]

Unless your using a friction drive setup no these controllers don't far well, only sensorless controllers we have found
to work well in e-bike direct drive non frock setup using a outrunner or innrunner like the Turnigys or Astro motors
is the Castle Creations HV160 ESC its the only choice that works for any period of time ...end of story don't waste your dollars
buying anything else in the RC esc department...there are other controllers sensored that require you to fit
hall sensors to your motor, you get less power but better throttle controller from my personal experince using both these
types of controller.

KiM

p.s welcome to ES

 

[spinningmagnets]

The RC controllers (ESCs) are sensorless, meaning no hall sensors on the outrunner motors, the ESC senses the position of the rotor by sampling the magnetic pulses that are a natural result of the permanent magnets passing by the stator-teeth.

Search the board for related threads. There was someone who tried an ESC on a hub-motor a while back, and I don't think he was happy with the results, but I don't remember why. You will need to add several large capacitors whether you end up liking the ESC in this application or not. If you don't add caps, its a guaranteed fail...with added caps, who knows? How many volts will you run on this system?

The Lyen 6-FET controller is $90, and his 12-FET is $130, they are proven to hold up under severe abuse, the 12-FET won the Ebike race in Tucson

 

[RWP]

I really like CroMo frames because they are easy to weld and mostly have round tubes so they are easy to clamp to. But with hub motors, with which I have zero experience, I think alu will be just fine because you are not having to attach a torquing monster to it.

My first eBike had batteries over the rear wheel and the bike did not handle well. My current bike has everything in or near the triangle and the weight distribution is almost 50/50.

I really like full suspension frames but often the shocks and linkage can take up a lot of room. Think about straddling the frame by putting batteries and other electronics on each side of the frame in the triangle area. Sickbikeparts.com has wider BB's then the norm which may help with the extra width.

My pedal only bike is a full suspension machine and I love it. When I got the new Cortina build finished, while it's a delight to ride, I did notice the hard tail right away.

Welcome and good luck with your build.

 

[AussieJester]

Welcome to ES. Good luck on your project.

Disk brakes are most important on the front. If your fork has the fittings they can be added. .

Actually ... you can add disk brakes to just about any fork or frame using one of ChoppersUS disk brake adpaters.

http://www.choppersus.com/store/product/307/Disc-Brake-Bracket-Billet/



KiM

 

[AussieJester]

The Lyen 6-FET controller is $90, and his 12-FET is $130, they are proven to hold up under severe abuse, the 12-FET won the Ebike race in Tucson

"severe" abuse is a little optimistic i think, i popped mine leaving the driveway hahaa

KiM

 

[VoKuS]

I don't quite understand your term "...brush less controller..." I've never heard of a controller with brushes.
I will be using a DD brushless motor.

Sorry
Brushless Motor Controller Vs Brushed Motor Controller... both are called ESC's ( Electric Speed Controllers..)

 

[dogman dan]

Interesting contraption AJ.

For the first bike, steel is really good. Whether you need disk brakes, FS, or whatever depends a lot on what you plan to do with the bike. Good rim brakes like found on most mtb's are adequate for street riding at reasonable speeds, say 25 mph or less. But not in a wet place. FS can be really nice, but it makes carrying a battery over 10 pounds in weight on a rear rack a problem. The bike gets rear heavy, and handles poorly. Front hub can be a way around this, if the bike has steel front forks. Depending on what you choose for battery, you may be able to carry the battery up front, even with FS.

Probobally the easiest bike to convert, is a steel frame MTB with only front suspension. Hub in back on steel dropouts, battery in the middle of the frame.
Wineboy rider showed me a really cool way to carry a big pingbattery. Using a womens hardtail mtb frame, he was able to attach a rear rack to the top tube, and carry the battery on the top tube. Plenty of clearance, and great handling.

 

[dogman dan]

Sounds to me like you are a perfect kind of guy to run his bike on lipo.

Live for physics told me a funny story at the race. He said the owner of HK thought all those guys buying big orders of lipo were small retailers selling at the flea mkt or small hobby shop. He never dreamed a bunch of crazy ebikers were stringing em into 100v packs and running 50 mph bikes on them! Living in china, he thinks of ebikes as something that goes 12 mph, on lead batteries.

Works REAL GOOD.

 

[Drunkskunk]

....

One: A mountain bike (both front and rear shocks?

FS is needed for very fast bikes, but not every bike. In many cases, a cheap FS bike is worse than no suspension at all. the suspension was meant to look cool, and sell more bikes. Some of them even have labels, on the mountain bike, that say "Not intended for off road use"

....Two: One with disk brakes?

For 30mph+ sustained speeds, or riding often in wet conditions, then yes. But if you will only be occasionally going fast, or mostly riding in the dry, then its not an absolute.
Rear disk brakes can be hard to fit to a rear hub, and sometimes involve making or customizing parts. But a front disk, with V brakes in the rear is fine for most uses.

....Three: Steel or Cromoly frame?

If you can get it, but don't stress this decision too much. Steel is ideal, but Aluminum is fine. It will be much easier to find a good Aluminum bike for your needs than a steel.

....Four: With gearing of 6 or seven if possible to find? (Something about fewer gears which confuses me?)

Motors like the 9C can take up to a 6 gear rear cluster normally, and a 7gear with a minor spacer on most bikes. The spacing for shifters and the chain width changes with higher gear counts on the rear, so there are some interchangeability problems adapting a 7 geared rear to a bike that normally had 8 or 9 gears in the rear. It can all be worked out with a new shifter, but it's easier to start with a bike that had the same number rear gears.
Really, once the motor is on, you'll find you rarely use more than 2 or 3 speeds anyway.

 

[FMB42]

I've been involved with flying RC fixed and rotary wing craft for well over a decade and, wheeled RC for more than 20 years.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I've been using a total of a dozen or more (1, 2, and 3 cell) Lipo batteries for ~5 years and, as such, have seen just how much they've revolutionized the electric RC model world.

Having said that, my next battery will, most likely, be a "custom" assembled Lipo (w/bms) unit. However, I decided to use an aluminum cased 36v 10ah LifePo4 battery for my first e-bike build (over a Lipo) for the following reasons:

1. Increased safety (while in use, during the charging process, and when in "storage").

2. Ease of mounting and dismounting (via a sliding and locking mounting plate).

3. The availability of consumer "ready" LifePo4 e-bike batteries exceeds that of their Lipo counterparts (at this time).

4. The aluminum cased battery I purchased includes a built in keyed "on-off" switch.

 

[wheelbender6]

Most of your questions are personal preference. I would not use rear suspension on your first build. I would prefer a hard tail bike with a suspension seat post unless you are doing hard core off road riding.

 

[gensem]

If you going to ride when it rains front disk brake is mandatory even at slow speeds.
FS would be desirable for higher speed setups and its comfy, and if your are able to get a decent steel fs frame I would go for it. Abit more weight its not an issue with a motor.
Just try to think in the bike as hole... battery fitting, weight distribution, etc.

GL

 

[Hillhater]

I decided to use an aluminum cased 36v 10ah LifePo4 battery for my first e-bike build (over a Lipo) for the following reasons:

1. Increased safety (while in use, during the charging process, and when in "storage").

2. Ease of mounting and dismounting (via a sliding and locking mounting plate).

3. The availability of consumer "ready" LifePo4 e-bike batteries exceeds that of their Lipo counterparts (at this time).

4. The aluminum cased battery I purchased includes a built in keyed "on-off" switch.

All sound reasoning , as long as you are aware of the compromise you make with regard to weight, size, cost, and charging time .

 

[jbond]

I've been involved with flying RC fixed and rotary wing craft for well over a decade and, wheeled RC for more than 20 years.

Having said that, my next battery will, most likely, be a "custom" assembled Lipo (w/bms) unit. However, I decided to use an aluminum cased 36v 10ah LifePo4 battery for my first e-bike build (over a Lipo) for the following reasons:

1. Increased safety (while in use, during the charging process, and when in "storage").

2. Ease of mounting and dismounting (via a sliding and locking mounting plate).

3. The availability of consumer "ready" LifePo4 e-bike batteries exceeds that of their Lipo counterparts (at this time).

4. The aluminum cased battery I purchased includes a built in keyed "on-off" switch.

Quite. There's a holy grail in here somewhere. A battery pack with the light weight and high C rating of RC Lipo, the lifespan of LiFePo and the simplicity, safety and ease of use of the typical LiMn E-Bike battery. And then available in 3 styles; very lightweight, short distance commute; Big range; And custom for fitting in the triangle. The closest to this now is probably Cellman's A123 packs with BMS as long as 30A is enough for you.

 

[FMB42]

All sound reasoning , as long as you are aware of the compromise you make with regard to weight, size, cost, and charging time .

Exactly. I was also, at the time, unsure if the whole e-bike thing was going to workout for me. I figured that the LifePo4 would be safest, easiest, and quickest means of obtaining a power source for my 1st build. However, I will, almost assuredly, go with a Lipo (or Cellman's A123 pack) battery system on my planned full suspension MTB build. The LifePo4 weight, size, cost, and charging time are, as you've mentioned, difficult to surmount when it comes to my small framed FS MTB.

Quite. There's a holy grail in here somewhere. A battery pack with the light weight and high C rating of RC Lipo, the lifespan of LiFePo and the simplicity, safety and ease of use of the typical LiMn E-Bike battery. And then available in 3 styles; very lightweight, short distance commute; Big range; And custom for fitting in the triangle. The closest to this now is probably Cellman's A123 packs with BMS as long as 30A is enough for you.

Thanks, I'll definitely look into Cellman's A123 packs.

 

[jbond]

Just to further confuse, BMSBattery have started selling Headway based High C LiFePo packs with a choice of BMS in 20A-60A-100A ratings. High C, High LifeTime, Safe but with LiFePo's weight. Every so often they also sell the latest ECityPower LiNiCoMn packs. They're quite a bit lighter and smaller and half the lifetime. However, 36v,15AHr,20A continuous, 40A Peak weighing 3.3Kg for $259.00 with charger is pretty attractive (assuming you believe the specs )
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/165-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

 

[FMB42]

Confuse?

Please note the "Edit" on my original post on this thread.

I seriously doubt if anything you state could possibly confuse me any more than I already am. The only thing I know these days is...that the whole "getting old" thing is really getting old.

 

[Henry111]

Most post advise that I have FS and disc brakes--at least on the front. My bike has FS on the front but does not have disc brakes. Nor does the front fork have the fittings for mounting disc brakes. Any suggestions?

 

[Henry111]

Ok, since we are talking batteries: What about A123s?
Any of you folks using those?
Gotta know how to solder!!!!

 

[Henry111]

This ESC is OPTO (optically coupled).

 

[Ricky_nz]

Most post advise that I have FS and disc brakes--at least on the front. My bike has FS on the front but does not have disc brakes. Nor does the front fork have the fittings for mounting disc brakes. Any suggestions?

It is easy enough to swap the fork but new forks can be quite expensive.
You should be able to find a good quality second hand fork on ebay or similar that has disk brake mounts.

You need to know what size stem your bike has on the forks. If its 1 1/8 inches and hopefully threadless then you would have a choice of a wide range of forks available that would fit.

If a different fork isn't an option for you then there are some better V brake options but in general they will eat up the pads quite quickly

 

[neptronix]

New fork.

Or hell, sell the bike and get another used bikes.
Here in America, mountain bikes depreciate like crazy.

I was looking at a $200 fork for an old trek i started out on, in order to get disc brakes.

What did i do? i sold it and bought a used mountain bike with disc brakes and front suspension on it for $200.

 

[Drunkskunk]

For the back, there are bolt on kits to add disk brakes. But for the front, you want something welded on. If you can't weld yourself, get a new fork. its cheaper that way. Crazy cheap. hunt craigslist for a week, often find $2-3000 bikes there for $2-300 or less, and can rob them of the parts you need if not just using the whole bike.

 

[geetarboy]

It only cost $215 for a Rock shox tora 302 & an Avid BB7 caliper and disc - shipped. It took me 3 hours to swap everything over. Thats the way to go if it's a decent bike to start with.

 

[zEEz]

This ESC is OPTO (optically coupled).

OPTO is not helping too much in this case . . .
Big problem is the very high phase current due to low speed and high load
(RC ESC are not expecting this condition) since there is no current limiter
built in ....
feel free to google around the forum for FIRE+MELTED+SPARKS+RC ESC