High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
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MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Sounds like as a minimum all the small pulleys should be hard-anodized.
Miles said:deecanio said:
As I posted, you can get them hard-anodised but it's probably only needed for the small pulley. I'm afraid they don't do hard-anodising in blue
Sounds like as a minimum all the small pulleys should be hard-anodized.
recumpence
1 GW
I would not worry about it for now. I have hundreds of miles on my recumbent without problems. Anything will wear with time and use. But, it is not a big deal for now. Steel is one possibility. Heck even colored anodizing increases surface hardness to a decent degree. :wink:
Matt
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Plastic does not grab the belt as well, though. Aluminum pulleys have less skip.
I do not want to get too sidetracked on such a minor matter. It will take quite a while to wear out aluminum. Again, I have hundreds of miles on my recumbent (small aluminum drive pulley) without problems. Yes, they can wear. Everything wears out eventually. If this is ever an issue, we can go with steel.
Matt
I do not want to get too sidetracked on such a minor matter. It will take quite a while to wear out aluminum. Again, I have hundreds of miles on my recumbent (small aluminum drive pulley) without problems. Yes, they can wear. Everything wears out eventually. If this is ever an issue, we can go with steel.
Matt
John in CR
100 TW
deecanio said:
If we're not working toward solutions good for thousands of trouble free miles, then we're not doing electrics justice. Hundreds of miles is tens of hours and unacceptable from a durability standpoint, though aluminum pulleys are probably fine.
John
i take your point john however we dont know the mileage for wear on parts yet and wont for some time, my point was that i for one dont want to wait forever while we over debate the wear issue,all im saying is if matts already done hundreds of miles on the stuff he has that's good enough for me to accept "as is".
cheers,
D
cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
We are answering an issue that is not necessarily an issue.
I just want to get these things out there and tested. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. I also need to just stick with a plan rather than making too many changes mid-stream. Changes will delay shipment further.
SDP/SI stocks many pulleys. If someone wants a steel pulley, it can probably be ordered direct from them. However, I do not want to stock many steel and aluminum pulleys unless it is needed.
Once I get a bunch of drives out there and running and sales moving along, maybe I can justify branching out into steel pulleys and other items. For now, aluminum is what I will stock. However, that could change if premature wear is seen.
I am totally open to making changes. But, there are other issues to focus on with this right now. We will see how it goes.
Matt
I just want to get these things out there and tested. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. I also need to just stick with a plan rather than making too many changes mid-stream. Changes will delay shipment further.
SDP/SI stocks many pulleys. If someone wants a steel pulley, it can probably be ordered direct from them. However, I do not want to stock many steel and aluminum pulleys unless it is needed.
Once I get a bunch of drives out there and running and sales moving along, maybe I can justify branching out into steel pulleys and other items. For now, aluminum is what I will stock. However, that could change if premature wear is seen.
I am totally open to making changes. But, there are other issues to focus on with this right now. We will see how it goes.
Matt
Aluminum is most likely the perfect material for this purpose.
Its used for auto timing belt pulleys and have very few failures. And really under prolonged use seems to harden, kind of an unintended annealing process.
On "Live Steam" Railroad, (A mini rideable gauge for giant children), the aluminum used for rails becomes so hardened with use that
it wears out the steel wheels!
Cheers,
Rob
Its used for auto timing belt pulleys and have very few failures. And really under prolonged use seems to harden, kind of an unintended annealing process.
On "Live Steam" Railroad, (A mini rideable gauge for giant children), the aluminum used for rails becomes so hardened with use that
it wears out the steel wheels!
Cheers,
Rob
recumpence
1 GW
I have some finalized prices for you.
It looks like the single stage drive will come in at $220 with FW adaptor (no freewheel, though). There are so many freewheel choices that I felt it best to leave that up to each person. That $220 is for the drive itself. Any custom fitment would require more time, and a bit more cost (not much). Things like strange motors that don't lend themselves to a simple slot mount, anodizing, polishing, and that sort of thing.
You will remember the E-Box was going to be $150. That was without a FW adaptor and it was a much simpler design. That design was much more restrictive, though and not expandable.
The two stage drive will be $380 to $400 depending on a few things.
There are a few options available to chose for each individual setup.
#1 Plain or polished? Anodized?
#2 Ratio.
#3 Wattage output.
The first stage of the dual drive (and the single stage drive itself) will be configurable in 3 ways. First is 9mm wide 5mm pitch belt on the first stage (all two stage drives will be #25 pitch chain on the secondary stage). That drive is good for 1500 to maybe 2000 watts. It is more efficient, but may require an idler to work above 1500 watts. 2000 watts is the max for 9mm wide belt. Second is the 15mm wide 5mm pitch belt. That is good for 3.5 to 4kw. It can handle up to 5kw if the belt is run very tight and the motor pulley is high enough tooth count for enough tooth engagement. Lastly will be #25 pitch chain from motor to jackshaft. That setup will make a bit of noise, but it will handle up to 8kw (if I have it figured right) or more. For those who want huge power without any chance of skip and do not mind some chain noise, that is the highest power option.
Anyway, I am not taking money just yet. I am still waiting on bearings (no biggie) and FW adaptors. I will be ordering some pulleys and sprockets individually at the beginning to setup each drive semi-custom. That will make each order a somewhat special deal that will take a week or so to get each item in stock that is needed for that particular drive as well as machining the motor mount for each motor. As I get a handle on the perfect ratios to stock, typical motor mount hole spacing, and what most people want, I can stock parts accordingly.
I know it has been a wait. But, for mechanical R&D, it has actually gone pretty quick. :wink:
Moving right along!
Matt
It looks like the single stage drive will come in at $220 with FW adaptor (no freewheel, though). There are so many freewheel choices that I felt it best to leave that up to each person. That $220 is for the drive itself. Any custom fitment would require more time, and a bit more cost (not much). Things like strange motors that don't lend themselves to a simple slot mount, anodizing, polishing, and that sort of thing.
You will remember the E-Box was going to be $150. That was without a FW adaptor and it was a much simpler design. That design was much more restrictive, though and not expandable.
The two stage drive will be $380 to $400 depending on a few things.
There are a few options available to chose for each individual setup.
#1 Plain or polished? Anodized?
#2 Ratio.
#3 Wattage output.
The first stage of the dual drive (and the single stage drive itself) will be configurable in 3 ways. First is 9mm wide 5mm pitch belt on the first stage (all two stage drives will be #25 pitch chain on the secondary stage). That drive is good for 1500 to maybe 2000 watts. It is more efficient, but may require an idler to work above 1500 watts. 2000 watts is the max for 9mm wide belt. Second is the 15mm wide 5mm pitch belt. That is good for 3.5 to 4kw. It can handle up to 5kw if the belt is run very tight and the motor pulley is high enough tooth count for enough tooth engagement. Lastly will be #25 pitch chain from motor to jackshaft. That setup will make a bit of noise, but it will handle up to 8kw (if I have it figured right) or more. For those who want huge power without any chance of skip and do not mind some chain noise, that is the highest power option.
Anyway, I am not taking money just yet. I am still waiting on bearings (no biggie) and FW adaptors. I will be ordering some pulleys and sprockets individually at the beginning to setup each drive semi-custom. That will make each order a somewhat special deal that will take a week or so to get each item in stock that is needed for that particular drive as well as machining the motor mount for each motor. As I get a handle on the perfect ratios to stock, typical motor mount hole spacing, and what most people want, I can stock parts accordingly.
I know it has been a wait. But, for mechanical R&D, it has actually gone pretty quick. :wink:
Moving right along!
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
Sounds good, Matt. I think the 15mm belt option will be fine for those of us doing setups that take advantage of the bike's existing gearing, whether through the crank, or via a series drive, like Mitch is gong to do. My Cyclone setup maxes out at 2600W, with a 48V controller limited to 55W, but having this coupled through a Nexus-3 hub makes it feel like more than double that in a hub motor setup. My 5303/72V setup hit 6kW peaks, but the Cyclone has gobs more low-end torque.
I don't need all the bling-related custom options, but I may need to have you do some extra work on the mount for me. At a minimum, I need vertically oriented holes for this first setup I'm doing, on the Dahon Curve. The pics below show where I want to put the whole assembly:
The area there is somewhat triangular in shape, as shown here:
What I was thinking was that I could use a plate underneath, and run two bolts up in betwen the two frame members. I could just drill two vertical holes in the mount, but I don't trust that I could do it and have it look as nice.
For the rest of my "fleet", what I really need is a mount that will fit the motor/GB assembly to a frame tube. What I'm thinking is a two-piece clamp that fits around a standard frame tube size, whatever that is, and the other end would be the 1-1/8" hole that fits over the output shaft tube, like the existing mount does. Is this something you would consider doing, once you get these first ones going? Maybe we could get Miles, or someone else here with similar 3D CAD expertise, to draw something up? I think this would be something many future users would want/need, as many will want to mount this to a frame tube, somewhere on the bike, I would guess.
-- Gary
I don't need all the bling-related custom options, but I may need to have you do some extra work on the mount for me. At a minimum, I need vertically oriented holes for this first setup I'm doing, on the Dahon Curve. The pics below show where I want to put the whole assembly:
The area there is somewhat triangular in shape, as shown here:
What I was thinking was that I could use a plate underneath, and run two bolts up in betwen the two frame members. I could just drill two vertical holes in the mount, but I don't trust that I could do it and have it look as nice.
For the rest of my "fleet", what I really need is a mount that will fit the motor/GB assembly to a frame tube. What I'm thinking is a two-piece clamp that fits around a standard frame tube size, whatever that is, and the other end would be the 1-1/8" hole that fits over the output shaft tube, like the existing mount does. Is this something you would consider doing, once you get these first ones going? Maybe we could get Miles, or someone else here with similar 3D CAD expertise, to draw something up? I think this would be something many future users would want/need, as many will want to mount this to a frame tube, somewhere on the bike, I would guess.
-- Gary
great news Matt!!!
i'll be needing all the extras :lol: i have plenty of time,but, if i can get the anodising,custom pulleys etc in this run that would be fantastic
thank you for making this for us at such a very reasonable price, having had some custom engineer work done last year i have an idea of how much it would have cost me to get done locally, that's if i could design it in the first place, so again thanks, your a star!!
Bike mount looking nice Gary, no bling at all? i thought you'd go for a red body for the dahon at least ?
i'll be having the works 8)
Cheers,
D
i'll be needing all the extras :lol: i have plenty of time,but, if i can get the anodising,custom pulleys etc in this run that would be fantastic
thank you for making this for us at such a very reasonable price, having had some custom engineer work done last year i have an idea of how much it would have cost me to get done locally, that's if i could design it in the first place, so again thanks, your a star!!
Bike mount looking nice Gary, no bling at all? i thought you'd go for a red body for the dahon at least ?
i'll be having the works 8)
Cheers,
D
GGoodrum said:
For seat tubes, maybe:
11/4" - 32mm
or
11/2" - 38mm
I'd be happy to model Matt's system, as a starting point - if he wants. It would be good to have it in our 3D model collection.
GGoodrum
1 MW
deecanio said:Bike mount looking nice Gary, no bling at all? i thought you'd go for a red body for the dahon at least ?
i'll be having the works 8)
Well, since we can ride year-round in these parts, I really want to get this on the road, as soon as possible. The bling can come later. 8) I'm really anxious to see how well the Hacker does, and how well the belt holds up.
recumpence
1 GW
The belt should hold up fine.
I already considered a seat tube mount. A couple concerns are offset (the mount cannot be center to the seat post tube). Another concern is torque twist. Hopefully a seat post mount would not turn under the load.
Gary, you may need to take the drive to a fab shop for innitial mounting if you are not a fabrication guy. That bike is cool, but not the easiest to mount things to.
Matt
I already considered a seat tube mount. A couple concerns are offset (the mount cannot be center to the seat post tube). Another concern is torque twist. Hopefully a seat post mount would not turn under the load.
Gary, you may need to take the drive to a fab shop for innitial mounting if you are not a fabrication guy. That bike is cool, but not the easiest to mount things to.
Matt
johnrobholmes
10 MW
There will be a great deal of torque twist on the drive if it isn't mounted inline with the output gear/pulley. A three point mount would help if designed properly, but ideally the final gear should be able to pull straight on the mounting bolts to keep belt or chain tension.
recumpence
1 GW
That's what I figured.
Anyway, I am glad production is close to finished and the first batch will be ready to ship soon.
As we find out the best arrangement for these drives, I can alter the mount design to accomodate what teh average person wants. Maybe a couple different mounts to chose from would be in order.
Matt
Anyway, I am glad production is close to finished and the first batch will be ready to ship soon.
As we find out the best arrangement for these drives, I can alter the mount design to accomodate what teh average person wants. Maybe a couple different mounts to chose from would be in order.
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
recumpence said:
Hmm... Don't have a "fab shop" anywhere around here, so I might have to wait on this until I can figure something out. Clearly, the holes on the side of the mount don't do anything for my setup, so I would have to drill vertical holes myself, I guess.
i think it'll be fine Gary, i'm thinking i may need to drill and tap myself but it's no biggy, even i can manage that amount of fabrication
You can ride all year round? damn, maybe i should move to somewhere more weather freindly - i'm really very jealous, still at least you can't ride electric to a condo is SD just to rub it in, oh wait,you can.... very very jealous :lol:
Cheers,
D
You can ride all year round? damn, maybe i should move to somewhere more weather freindly - i'm really very jealous, still at least you can't ride electric to a condo is SD just to rub it in, oh wait,you can.... very very jealous :lol:
Cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
I do have a drill press, which I used to make the box the Hacker is in now, but I'm not very good about keeping things "pretty". 
I just don't want to mess up all the nice finish work.
I just don't want to mess up all the nice finish work. 
j3tch1u
10 kW
matt, i've been working on a design to use a matex 75 series gearbox with an HXT 80-100-B 130Kv. but i'd be interested in trying out your drive unit. i currently have a cyclone dual freewheel / nuvinci cvp setup (see pic) but power isn't nearly enough. do you think your gbox would fit? i've modded my frame to get about 12cm between seat-tube and tyre. rear tyre is a 3 incher. motor travels with the rear suspension.
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