HAL9000v2.0
10 kW
WOW! 
Aren't those pictures illegal for younger than 21?
Aren't those pictures illegal for younger than 21?
High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
Matt,
I just found this thread. I saw your 2-page construction page some time back, but missed the forum.
I read maybe the first 5 pages of posts in this thread, and then the last 3. Doubtless the pricing and other details are somewhere in the midst of that.
Could you give me a link or a post number?
BTW, it seems we are neighbors. I'm in Elgin. I'm very interested in this thing you made.
Thanks.
I just found this thread. I saw your 2-page construction page some time back, but missed the forum.
I read maybe the first 5 pages of posts in this thread, and then the last 3. Doubtless the pricing and other details are somewhere in the midst of that.
Could you give me a link or a post number?
BTW, it seems we are neighbors. I'm in Elgin. I'm very interested in this thing you made.
Thanks.
GGoodrum said:Hmm... The holes in Matt's drive are on the sides, so maybe these type clamps might work turned sideways, and then a plate that bolts to these and to the mount? You'd need four of these, two for each side.
What we really need is a different mount that has a built-in frametube clamp. :wink: :wink: Got any freetime yet Matt??
-- Gary
i was thinking either not to worry about the holes on the side and mount three to the flat underside of the mount? or
if worst comes to worst you could always fab your own mount beefing it in the three mounting places, i think three of those would clamp hard enough ?
they do sit the drive out a wee bit from the seatpost but i might give them a shot.
Great if matt had some time for all my bike lol, i wonder if Matt has any untapped mounts?
Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
1clue said:
Hey Neighbor! I am up in McHenry! We are about 45 minutes away from each other. We should hook up sometime. You could swing by and see my hole in the wall shop.
As for your questions;
The drive costs $220 for single stage or $380 for dual stage.
Matt
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
I will be surprised if clamping these drive units on works TBH...i hope it does for yoiur sake anywayz DMan...
I twisted a tube on my last trike with the 1000watt motor i use and thats like 3 times less powerfull AND I
used brackets WELDED to the tube (same size tubing used on frames) If your gentle im sure it will be fine but if
your intending to grip handfuls of throttle which im presuming you will i can see the drive unit slipping around the tube...
again...hope im wrong...
Tiz pure pr0n that drive Matt...i was this close -->||<--- to firing you an email and grabbing one few days ago but went
for 24in LCD monitor instead (the 22in was starting to look small) LoL ...maybe next week hey :: wink :: if i send you the $$$
whats the chances of you supplying the motor, drive and ESC Matt? ... my thinking is i will save ALOT on freight costs is all...
"Propper Job" anywayz buddy
KiM
Apprentice Gangsta 8)
recumpence
1 GW
Sure, I can set you up with the whole deal (ESC, motor, and drive). :wink:
Matt
Matt
AussieJester
1 TW
recumpence said:
Ahhh you are the man
Give me a few more weeks Matt and i'll have some $$$ for you Thankz mate much appreciated
KiM
Apprentice Gangsta 8)
AussieJester said:deecanio said:
I will be surprised if clamping these drive units on works TBH...i hope it does for yoiur sake anywayz DMan...
I twisted a tube on my last trike with the 1000watt motor i use and thats like 3 times less powerfull AND I
used brackets WELDED to the tube (same size tubing used on frames) If your gentle im sure it will be fine but if
your intending to grip handfuls of throttle which im presuming you will i can see the drive unit slipping around the tube...
again...hope im wrong...
Tiz pure pr0n that drive Matt...i was this close -->||<--- to firing you an email and grabbing one few days ago but went
for 24in LCD monitor instead (the 22in was starting to look small) LoL ...maybe next week hey :: wink :: if i send you the $$$
whats the chances of you supplying the motor, drive and ESC Matt? ... my thinking is i will save ALOT on freight costs is all...
"Propper Job" anywayz buddy
KiM
Apprentice Gangsta 8)
Hi Kim,
you could well be right bud, was just an initial thought on mounting, do you have a piccy of how the 1000w motor was set up so i can see what forces were involved?
i'm not sure at all how this will pan out but looing at the wonder drive it seems to me that we have on one side the motor pulley and big pulley and then on the other we have the drive sprocket and the crank sprocket, naively i thought that hopefully these two forces might somewhat balance themselves out? looking at matts drive and with it mounted to the seatpost which way would you think the drive will rotate? it's a tricky one i know but any thoughts?
Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
The chain pulling torque will make the drive want to rotate toward (in your case) the crank. I have no worries, though, because Jozzer will know how best to mount and brace it. 
Matt
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
recumpence said:The chain pulling torque will make the drive want to rotate toward (in your case) the crank. I have no worries, though, because Jozzer will know how best to mount and brace it.
Matt
I need a clone of Steve over here...
recumpence
1 GW
Too funny!
A heads up on a few production things;
I am rolling right along. I just shipped another drive today. Also, I am setting up a few for various others here who will be using them in different applications. Things are rolling along nicely!
I have had a couple minor snags related to fitment of various different types of motors. But it seems to all be working out well so far. I am really looking forward to seeing a few drives up and running!
I am open to making changes to the drive should the end users dictate. For example, Gary mentioned wanting the drive mount base to possibly be made to clamp to a seat post tube. That is fine, if there is a market for that. Or if color is highly requested (I have a few I am making in black), then that is OK. I can do more in colors.
One thing to bear in mind, this is still a very new venture for all of us here. There will be bumps along the road. I am willing to do all I can to smooth things out. I really hope we find the ideal motor that most people will want to use. That would eliminate a few rough spots. I have had a few people send me their motors to mount on their drive. That is best. I have made a couple to manufacturer's spec with mixed results. The Astro, for example, has been changed in design. However, their web site does not (or did not when I last checked) reflect that change. As a result, the face plate can be machined to use all 4 screws rather than two. Gary had a specific concern about that. It is not an issue in operation, but it would have been nice to know of Astro's changes up front. That is why I have been asking to have your motors in hand before I do the face plate machining.
Anyway, I am more than willing to make changes to the drive to accomodate what the market desires, assuming it is not cost prohibitive.
I have a few grand spent on this first run of drives. Most of that has been recouped so far. Hopefully there are no major changes needed so we can really roll on the next run.
Later!
Matt
A heads up on a few production things;
I am rolling right along. I just shipped another drive today. Also, I am setting up a few for various others here who will be using them in different applications. Things are rolling along nicely!
I have had a couple minor snags related to fitment of various different types of motors. But it seems to all be working out well so far. I am really looking forward to seeing a few drives up and running!
I am open to making changes to the drive should the end users dictate. For example, Gary mentioned wanting the drive mount base to possibly be made to clamp to a seat post tube. That is fine, if there is a market for that. Or if color is highly requested (I have a few I am making in black), then that is OK. I can do more in colors.
One thing to bear in mind, this is still a very new venture for all of us here. There will be bumps along the road. I am willing to do all I can to smooth things out. I really hope we find the ideal motor that most people will want to use. That would eliminate a few rough spots. I have had a few people send me their motors to mount on their drive. That is best. I have made a couple to manufacturer's spec with mixed results. The Astro, for example, has been changed in design. However, their web site does not (or did not when I last checked) reflect that change. As a result, the face plate can be machined to use all 4 screws rather than two. Gary had a specific concern about that. It is not an issue in operation, but it would have been nice to know of Astro's changes up front. That is why I have been asking to have your motors in hand before I do the face plate machining.
Anyway, I am more than willing to make changes to the drive to accomodate what the market desires, assuming it is not cost prohibitive.
I have a few grand spent on this first run of drives. Most of that has been recouped so far. Hopefully there are no major changes needed so we can really roll on the next run.
Later!
Matt
Ypedal
100 TW
I"m actually happy to see the cylinder shape vs Bell shape on the other Astro pictured on their site.. Rain out here today.. ( great to see, helps melt this 4ft of snow we have piled up .. ) I"ll be ebiking before you know it ! :wink:
recumpence
1 GW
No kidding. We have seen alot of rain lately too.
Y,
Your anodizing will be done soon. Then I can move along to the good part!
Matt
Y,
Your anodizing will be done soon. Then I can move along to the good part!
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
Dee's 3210 is on its way to you, so you'll be able to use it to proof doing a motor plate that will use all four screws. As you mentioned, I wondered about whether two are up for the job, but I forgot your first setup only uses two screws, and it was fine up to 7kW. Plus, I remember putting big motors, pulling 6kW+ on my Ion helicopters, and they were only held with two screws as well. If it turns out to be an issue, I'll have you make me a 4-screw version in the next batch.
I think that "for the masses", a frametube mount will be the preferred solution, as most just won't have access to welders and/or fab shops for doing a custom mount. I predict most of your future sales will be with this option. To start the ball rolling, I would be happy to pay you whatever you need to do a prototype. The spec is simple, just do one that will fit on a standard size, round frametube (1-1/4"?) and that centers the assembly on centerline of the frame. As I envision it, this mount would be two-pieces, one that has half the clamp, plus the part needed to go over the bearing tube, and then the other that is simply the other half of the clamp. I'm sure, however, that you can figure out what would work best, and/or is the easiest to make. It could even be 3-pieces, with one that is your existing mount, and then have the clamp mount bolt to it. The tube mount could simply be an add-on option. Whatever works.
-- Gary
I think that "for the masses", a frametube mount will be the preferred solution, as most just won't have access to welders and/or fab shops for doing a custom mount. I predict most of your future sales will be with this option. To start the ball rolling, I would be happy to pay you whatever you need to do a prototype. The spec is simple, just do one that will fit on a standard size, round frametube (1-1/4"?) and that centers the assembly on centerline of the frame. As I envision it, this mount would be two-pieces, one that has half the clamp, plus the part needed to go over the bearing tube, and then the other that is simply the other half of the clamp. I'm sure, however, that you can figure out what would work best, and/or is the easiest to make. It could even be 3-pieces, with one that is your existing mount, and then have the clamp mount bolt to it. The tube mount could simply be an add-on option. Whatever works.
-- Gary
Would a plaster cast of the bike help?
For example:
It seems to me that this will give the tube diameters and angles well enough to fabricate a mount. Also give the location of the chain rings maybe, if necessary.
This brings up another point. For those of us familiar with fiberglass and carbon fiber, would it be reasonable to make a composite mount?
Another thing: Is it reasonable to mount the entire drive such that it could be quickly released? Say, for example, I ride to work. I lock the bike in the outdoor rack, pop the drive and batteries off, and walk inside. Drive goes in a box, batteries go on a charger. Not sure I truly comprehend the torque involved here. I've worked with engines and propellers on full-sized machinery, but not the super-sized model motors on bicycles.
For example:
- Get a box of plaster of paris or similar.
- Wrap your bike in saran wrap near the mounting point. (maybe not necessary?)
- Get 2 1-gallon ziplock bags.
- Fill the bags with mixed plaster.
- Press them together where the drive will mount, one on each side so they can easily pop off when hard.
- Wait for a cure.
- Edit: Take a photo of the bike with the plaster cast on it, so he can see the location of everything else nearby.
- Box the bags in foam and ship them to Matt.
It seems to me that this will give the tube diameters and angles well enough to fabricate a mount. Also give the location of the chain rings maybe, if necessary.
This brings up another point. For those of us familiar with fiberglass and carbon fiber, would it be reasonable to make a composite mount?
Another thing: Is it reasonable to mount the entire drive such that it could be quickly released? Say, for example, I ride to work. I lock the bike in the outdoor rack, pop the drive and batteries off, and walk inside. Drive goes in a box, batteries go on a charger. Not sure I truly comprehend the torque involved here. I've worked with engines and propellers on full-sized machinery, but not the super-sized model motors on bicycles.
recumpence
1 GW
That was exactly what I had in mind as well.
I am open to anything. I do not mind prototyping. That is part of the whole production gig.
I should have all anodizing back here in 4 or 5 days. Then I can machine D's pulley (I got the wrong one in stock the other day, the new one is on its way). D's drive should be the next one to go out followed by your second drive. Then I will focus on Y's drive (black, two stage ).
Matt
I am open to anything. I do not mind prototyping. That is part of the whole production gig.
I should have all anodizing back here in 4 or 5 days. Then I can machine D's pulley (I got the wrong one in stock the other day, the new one is on its way). D's drive should be the next one to go out followed by your second drive. Then I will focus on Y's drive (black, two stage
).Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi D,
I think it should be mounted in such a way that it can't rotate or move in any direction.
For example you could bolt it to a plate that is fastened with U-bolts to both the Seat-tube and the Down-tube.
deecanio said:
I think it should be mounted in such a way that it can't rotate or move in any direction.
For example you could bolt it to a plate that is fastened with U-bolts to both the Seat-tube and the Down-tube.
Ypedal
100 TW
I'm sure this will change.. but if i have a similar frame to my Chaos ( unless i end up using the Chaos frame that is.. ) with V-Brake busses and Disk brake mounts..
I plan to lace up my NuVinci in a 20" rim, bolt that 20" wheel to a frame that has V-Brake mounts for a 26" wheel, This gives me room on the swingarm to mount the motor and 2 strong anchor points ( V-brake busses ) + a 3rd to the tubes.. that should do the job assuming i can get a clean chainline.
I plan to lace up my NuVinci in a 20" rim, bolt that 20" wheel to a frame that has V-Brake mounts for a 26" wheel, This gives me room on the swingarm to mount the motor and 2 strong anchor points ( V-brake busses ) + a 3rd to the tubes.. that should do the job assuming i can get a clean chainline.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Gary's solution sounds very elegant (I think it is still missing something to prevent rotation on the down-tube) but maybe a simpler drive and mounting solution would suffice? Matt's drive is a brilliant design but it might be overkill for most down-tube mounted BB Driven installations.
How about a drive very similar to the following (a flat plate fastened to the down-tube with U-bolts), with a vertical plate for the motor? (For a single stage right hand drive the motor plate would be on the left instead of the right.)
The secondary shaft would be at the opposite end of the plate using two of your mounts (or ready made mounts like the following), so that both ends of the shaft will be supported:
The plate that the motor is bolted to could slide on slots rather than having the motor slide. This would mean the slots would be the same for every unit. The only difference for different motors would be different holes which buyers could actually drill themselves.
In addition to the two plates a third plate or bracket, bolted (I think) to the horizontal plate, that could be U-bolted to the Seat-tube would be required to prevent the drive rotating on the Down-Tube. The length and hole location would vary on different bikes but users could cut it to length and drill the holes themselves.
Additionally since more length is available on most down-tubes the length of the horizontal plate could be increased (maybe as an option) by an inch or three in the direction of the secondary shaft. This would allow larger secondary pulleys and better wrap on the primary pulley. A two stage version would be possible by extending the plate an inch or two past the motor.
This design or something similar requires less machining (most of the unit is flat plates) and much less customization than your current drive and is easier to mount. The slots would be the same on every unit. Different down-tube sizes could be accommodated with different sizes of U-bolts. If it helps most buyers could drill their own motor mount and U-bolt holes. The only work required for different motors and drive ratios, aside from (DIY) hole drilling would be pulleys and sprockets.
It will probably not work as well for some tight or unusual situations but it should work just as well, be easier to mount and be simpler to build for many down-tube installations.
Gary said:
recumpence said:I am open to anything. I do not mind prototyping. That is part of the whole production gig.
Matt
Gary's solution sounds very elegant (I think it is still missing something to prevent rotation on the down-tube) but maybe a simpler drive and mounting solution would suffice? Matt's drive is a brilliant design but it might be overkill for most down-tube mounted BB Driven installations.
How about a drive very similar to the following (a flat plate fastened to the down-tube with U-bolts), with a vertical plate for the motor? (For a single stage right hand drive the motor plate would be on the left instead of the right.)
The secondary shaft would be at the opposite end of the plate using two of your mounts (or ready made mounts like the following), so that both ends of the shaft will be supported:
The plate that the motor is bolted to could slide on slots rather than having the motor slide. This would mean the slots would be the same for every unit. The only difference for different motors would be different holes which buyers could actually drill themselves.
In addition to the two plates a third plate or bracket, bolted (I think) to the horizontal plate, that could be U-bolted to the Seat-tube would be required to prevent the drive rotating on the Down-Tube. The length and hole location would vary on different bikes but users could cut it to length and drill the holes themselves.
Additionally since more length is available on most down-tubes the length of the horizontal plate could be increased (maybe as an option) by an inch or three in the direction of the secondary shaft. This would allow larger secondary pulleys and better wrap on the primary pulley. A two stage version would be possible by extending the plate an inch or two past the motor.
This design or something similar requires less machining (most of the unit is flat plates) and much less customization than your current drive and is easier to mount. The slots would be the same on every unit. Different down-tube sizes could be accommodated with different sizes of U-bolts. If it helps most buyers could drill their own motor mount and U-bolt holes. The only work required for different motors and drive ratios, aside from (DIY) hole drilling would be pulleys and sprockets.
It will probably not work as well for some tight or unusual situations but it should work just as well, be easier to mount and be simpler to build for many down-tube installations.
GGoodrum
1 MW
This looks way too much, to me. I still think all that is needed is a simple two-piece clamp that can bolt to the exist mount. This would be a lot more secure than using U-bolts, and would look a ton better. To keep the whole assembly from rotating, the "top" clamp piece could had a setscrew, if needed, but frankly, I think a 3-4" long clamp is going to be more than enough to counter the torque for what we are talking about.
recumpence
1 GW
For down tube mounting, a couple 3/4 inch thick mounts clamped around the frame should be OK. I guess we will find out. :wink:
D,
Your pulley arrived today. I will begin machining it and mating the FW tomorrow. The only other thing is the anodizing. That should be back middle of next week. Then I will post pics on your thread and ship the drive.
Of course, I could always torture you and not take any pics. Then you could just wait for it to be rowed across the ocean slowly, get through customs, and eventually make it to your house.
Matt
D,
Your pulley arrived today. I will begin machining it and mating the FW tomorrow. The only other thing is the anodizing. That should be back middle of next week. Then I will post pics on your thread and ship the drive.
Of course, I could always torture you and not take any pics. Then you could just wait for it to be rowed across the ocean slowly, get through customs, and eventually make it to your house.
Matt
i'm hoping your right there Gary, i too think it's excessive but i have no comprehension of the kind of forces we're talking about here at 5kw say?
i keep thinking about adapted handlebar stems, they hold real well and with some rubber on the surface that clamps the tube my moneys on that not going anywhere, i base this on carrying 30lbs batteries and cages on my downtube just clamped with rubber mounts.
btw does anyone know if mosts seatposts are a standard size my outer diameter is 34mm or 1 3/8" roughly?
Matt,
don't be cruel :lol:
great stuff i wasn't expecting it to arrive that quickly, did you get my motor yet too? oh man, it's all coming together
Cheers,
D
i keep thinking about adapted handlebar stems, they hold real well and with some rubber on the surface that clamps the tube my moneys on that not going anywhere, i base this on carrying 30lbs batteries and cages on my downtube just clamped with rubber mounts.
btw does anyone know if mosts seatposts are a standard size my outer diameter is 34mm or 1 3/8" roughly?
Matt,
don't be cruel :lol:
great stuff
i wasn't expecting it to arrive that quickly, did you get my motor yet too? oh man, it's all coming together Cheers,
D
northernmike
10 kW
There's no standard for seatposts - there's about 6 popular sizes, you'd best get out the calipers!
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