High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
John in CR
100 TW
Wow, I'm the only pre-order. Matt, don't do anything special just for me, and changes, delays, minor cost overruns are no big deal. I just wanted to get some cash in your hand for 2 reasons: 1. Help you not bear 100% of the up-front cost burden and 2. To make sure I didn't get excluded and have to wait for some down the road production run. I'm just looking for a small fairly lightweight reduction solution, so I don't have to build one myself. I haven't even been following the thread much at all, so I don't know what you guys are building. Just tell me how to best use it when ready.
John
John
Hey Mitch, the amorphous material would probably triple or quadruple the cost of the motor. Each stator would have to be cut out with an EDM or some other low stress process. Also this material saturates at a lower induction than standard electical steels so specific power output would go down. Also, my motor will be around 90% efficient over a fairly broad range which is pretty good IMHO. So anyway, maybe I can snag some of this material to try it out but I'm not too optimistic it will net any real benefit for our use.
etard
100 kW
Matt,
Since Christmas is so soon, can you just fly it down with Santa?
It's on the way! 
Anyway, I have this motor:
other side(same style):
The whole bell spins, so there is no mounting. Is this motor compatible with your drive? I will probably get Dave's motor, when it comes out, but it could be quite a wait. Will you be putting a cage around your Pletti? That's an expensive motor to be smashing around with.
I notice you mentioned smooth start problems with RC controllers, is that why a clutch was necesary on your recumbent? If so, what are you doing about that on this drive?
Since Christmas is so soon, can you just fly it down with Santa?
It's on the way! Anyway, I have this motor:
other side(same style):
The whole bell spins, so there is no mounting. Is this motor compatible with your drive? I will probably get Dave's motor, when it comes out, but it could be quite a wait. Will you be putting a cage around your Pletti? That's an expensive motor to be smashing around with.
I notice you mentioned smooth start problems with RC controllers, is that why a clutch was necesary on your recumbent? If so, what are you doing about that on this drive?
etard
100 kW
I think something like the sheath on this cut tool would be nice for the lowest link, or around the motor. The cut disk is 3" and the whole tool only cost $10 at Harbor Freight.
recumpence
1 GW
Etard,
My motor in very well protected in its location on my recumbent. If I run it on my mountain bike, I will (should) dom something to keep it safe.
That outrunner should fit fine. There is no specific diameter limit for the drive unit. That motor mounts by the front faceplate (where the wires exit). The rest of the can spins. The motor will be screwed to the front plate of my drive unit.
Startup is wonderful with the HV110. It starts up just fine without any pedalling first, even up hill pulling a load. I have a clutch for overpower reasons. I have more power than my drive can take. Also, I can adjust the clutch to prevent overamping my ESC.
John,
Yup, you are the only one I hvae allowed to send me money. I still have your money in my paypal account just in case.
Anyway, it is looking very good at this point. The drive will be very pretty to look at and crazy strong. Heck, it could be used as a stressed member of the frame or swingarm!
D,
I have about a dozen or so people (you included) who want a drive. That is part of why I started with the number of parts I did. I can always produce more drives for the second run (30 or 40 drives at once) if it is justified.
I cannot see any major changes to run #2. But, added pretty stuff will more than likely be the focus (at added cost, though) for the second run. I want to make sure everything is technically correct first.
Miles,
You bring the pizza and I will let you camp out on my doorstep. You may freeze to death in this weather, though. :wink:
Do you have an interest in a drive or are you building your own for your next project?
Matt
My motor in very well protected in its location on my recumbent. If I run it on my mountain bike, I will (should) dom something to keep it safe.
That outrunner should fit fine. There is no specific diameter limit for the drive unit. That motor mounts by the front faceplate (where the wires exit). The rest of the can spins. The motor will be screwed to the front plate of my drive unit.
Startup is wonderful with the HV110. It starts up just fine without any pedalling first, even up hill pulling a load. I have a clutch for overpower reasons. I have more power than my drive can take. Also, I can adjust the clutch to prevent overamping my ESC.
John,
Yup, you are the only one I hvae allowed to send me money. I still have your money in my paypal account just in case.
Anyway, it is looking very good at this point. The drive will be very pretty to look at and crazy strong. Heck, it could be used as a stressed member of the frame or swingarm!
D,
I have about a dozen or so people (you included) who want a drive. That is part of why I started with the number of parts I did. I can always produce more drives for the second run (30 or 40 drives at once) if it is justified.
I cannot see any major changes to run #2. But, added pretty stuff will more than likely be the focus (at added cost, though) for the second run. I want to make sure everything is technically correct first.
Miles,
You bring the pizza and I will let you camp out on my doorstep. You may freeze to death in this weather, though. :wink:
Do you have an interest in a drive or are you building your own for your next project?
Matt
It's cold enough inside my house, thanksrecumpence said:
I'm very interested to see your finished design but, I've more or less designed my own "box" for the next project - like you, this is the bit I enjoy the most
If I design for a specfic motor and ratio, I can minimise the weight.
recumpence
1 GW
Exactly. That is the deal with my recumbent. The drive on my recumbent is designed specifically for my bike and motor. That way I can really refine it to the smallest, lightest package possible.
Matt
Matt
John in CR
100 TW
recumpence said:
Pretty ain't important for me, but strong I like, because once I'm ready to do a long-term bike for myself it will definitely be composite and having something strong to hang other critical metal items in the same area and spread the stresses to the composite structure is absolutely perfect. I can already see a future generation gearbox that has the bottom bracket and swing arm pivot all built into the unit. Uh oh, now I created more changes.
BTW, have you already drawn up a solution for a combining unit where HP input goes in as well, a jackshaft for the bent guys and the crank for the upright crowd? If you're going to make things easy for those of us who are machining handicapped, you might as well go for the all the way simple solution. Sorry if this has already been discussed.
John
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi David,
I posted that partly for general interest and partly wishful thinking (cheaper and better). I thought it was highly unlikely it would actually be affordable, available and a big enough improvement to be worthwhile out so if you are not optimistic unless you are personally interested or its very easy to test please don't go to any extra trouble for my sake.
I am very very pleased with the progress and design of Matt's drive and your motor design. No need to do anything extra for me.
CNCAddict said:
I posted that partly for general interest and partly wishful thinking (cheaper and better). I thought it was highly unlikely it would actually be affordable, available and a big enough improvement to be worthwhile out so if you are not optimistic unless you are personally interested or its very easy to test please don't go to any extra trouble for my sake.
I am very very pleased with the progress and design of Matt's drive and your motor design. No need to do anything extra for me.
GGoodrum
1 MW
Matt, I do remember what you went through with the helis. The demand was huge, which I guess was somewhat surprising as it was a very high-end work of art. I've had similar problems trying to keep up with the BMS board demand, but it has finally slowed down so I can catch my breath.
Anyway, I'm starting to visualize what this will look like, but it is easier to do that visualization with the two-stage version. How the single stage setup is oriented, especially in relation to where the motor is located, is what I'm having the most problem with understanding.
The main reason Mitch and I like the "series drive" setup, where we Insert your drive between the front crankset and the rear hub, is that we can use something like a Nexus hub, or maybe a NuVinci CVT hub, in order to not only get gobs of low-end torque, but also about as high a top end as we want to go. Because of this "extra" gearing, I think a single 6:1 reduction is exactly what we need. In my case, I have a motor with a kV of 480. At around 50V, it will spin at about 20k rpm. It has a 6.75:1 planetary gearbox, so with a 6:1 single-stage drive reduction and a Nexus 8 rear hub, I can get a very wide power range. The sprocket on the output shaft of the drive unit can simply be roughly the same size as the one on the Nexus 8 hub (20T, I think...). The Nexus 8 has ratios that range from 0.527:1 to 1.615:1, with 5th gear being 1:1. This should yield great low-end torque, but still allow a top speed over 60, not that I'd ever go anywhere near that fast.
-- Gary
I've had similar problems trying to keep up with the BMS board demand, but it has finally slowed down so I can catch my breath.Anyway, I'm starting to visualize what this will look like, but it is easier to do that visualization with the two-stage version. How the single stage setup is oriented, especially in relation to where the motor is located, is what I'm having the most problem with understanding.
The main reason Mitch and I like the "series drive" setup, where we Insert your drive between the front crankset and the rear hub, is that we can use something like a Nexus hub, or maybe a NuVinci CVT hub, in order to not only get gobs of low-end torque, but also about as high a top end as we want to go. Because of this "extra" gearing, I think a single 6:1 reduction is exactly what we need. In my case, I have a motor with a kV of 480. At around 50V, it will spin at about 20k rpm. It has a 6.75:1 planetary gearbox, so with a 6:1 single-stage drive reduction and a Nexus 8 rear hub, I can get a very wide power range. The sprocket on the output shaft of the drive unit can simply be roughly the same size as the one on the Nexus 8 hub (20T, I think...). The Nexus 8 has ratios that range from 0.527:1 to 1.615:1, with 5th gear being 1:1. This should yield great low-end torque, but still allow a top speed over 60, not that I'd ever go anywhere near that fast.
-- Gary
Hangdog98
10 W
Has anybody tested the NuVinci hub over a decent time frame? It uses some special oil to provide friction between rotating balls and a drive plates and I wonder if it has actually met the torque claims made by the manufacturer. We were supposed to get one from NuVinci to test on our cargo bike but the deal vaporized and the rep never returned our emails. I worry about that stuff when committing to a design. A Rohloff would be the Shizzle though, too bad it's so expensive. Of the remaining big brands, Shimano, Sturmey and SRAM, I think it comes down to spares and service availability. I read today that Shimano was having trouble with OEM Alfine hubs fitted to Giant CRX bikes because, Shimano claims, the sprocket was incorrectly fitted at the factory. Hmmmm... maybe I should stick with the Nexus red band. Tried and tested.
recumpence
1 GW
GGoodrum said:Matt, I do remember what you went through with the helis. The demand was huge, which I guess was somewhat surprising as it was a very high-end work of art.
Anyway, I'm starting to visualize what this will look like, but it is easier to do that visualization with the two-stage version. How the single stage setup is oriented, especially in relation to where the motor is located, is what I'm having the most problem with understanding.
The main reason Mitch and I like the "series drive" setup, where we Insert your drive between the front crankset and the rear hub, is that we can use something like a Nexus hub, or maybe a NuVinci CVT hub, in order to not only get gobs of low-end torque, but also about as high a top end as we want to go. Because of this "extra" gearing, I think a single 6:1 reduction is exactly what we need. In my case, I have a motor with a kV of 480. At around 50V, it will spin at about 20k rpm. It has a 6.75:1 planetary gearbox, so with a 6:1 single-stage drive reduction and a Nexus 8 rear hub, I can get a very wide power range. The sprocket on the output shaft of the drive unit can simply be roughly the same size as the one on the Nexus 8 hub (20T, I think...). The Nexus 8 has ratios that range from 0.527:1 to 1.615:1, with 5th gear being 1:1. This should yield great low-end torque, but still allow a top speed over 60, not that I'd ever go anywhere near that fast.
-- Gary
Series drive is always possible. That is merely a double freewheel addition on the output shaft.
Gary, you may also remember how weird RC groups got when my parts really got popular. The guys here would laugh! Oh, Man, it got to the point that the front page of RGGroups was always crammed with threads regarding my parts. And those threads were long. A couple of the threads were so long (thousands of posts) that the moderators had to start V2 threads because the first thread was getting so stinking long.
Heck, on numerous occasions I had money show up in my paypal account with the simple comment "Just wanted to shoot you some money to say thanks for all you do......" Hmm, strange. At one point, when my family had some tough times (medical stuff) there was a thread started by a member "Lets all pray for Matt and his business" It got so weird others started threads sharing their annoyance that everything on RCGroups was focussed on my products. I am not kidding about this. Go to RGGroups and search under "Ballistic Technology" or "Matt Shumaker Corona". You will find hundreds of threads.That is partly why I am cautious about taking preorders. I want to make sure this doesn't dominate my life as that did. There definately seems to be a pent up demand in the market for manufacturers/visionaries who are willing to listen to the public and give them what they want as well as being so accessable. I am a communicator. I love to be available to people with questions. So, I end up with a loyal following. I appreciate it very much! I am older and wiser now, and I just want to make sure everyone is happy with what I manufacture before I take teh next step to make other things and branch out.
See what I mean?
Anyway, you guys are awesome here. Even TD. :wink:
I love it here and I am really excited to get these drives up and running!
I do not want to belabor that point. I am having fun, I must say. E-biking is truely addicting! It is just as addictive as RC helis! :wink:
Matt
erth64net
100 W
Miles said:
So, where does one purchase just the pulley - everything I can find suggests that the designer/manufacturer will only deal with OEMs, and the one belt-driven bike website that I can find (http://www.strida.us) does not list individual parts for sale.
erth,
The C-Drive pulley, you can get as part of a sample kit (I've no idea of the cost).
You can't purchase the Strida pulley on its own, either - it comes as a kit with the cranks (or BB unit and freewheel in the case of the Mk 3).
I got mine from Strida Netherlands who had recently taken over UK distribution
http://www.strida.nl/en/service/contact.php
http://www.strida.nl/en/store/parts.php
They only list the Mk 3 pulley on the website spares list. If you want the Mk 5 pulley you'll have to email them.
The Mk 3 pulley mount is for an 18t sprocket - the Mk 5 pulley uses a 104mm BCD 4 bolt mount.
Surely, someone must stock spare parts in the US?
The C-Drive pulley, you can get as part of a sample kit (I've no idea of the cost).
You can't purchase the Strida pulley on its own, either - it comes as a kit with the cranks (or BB unit and freewheel in the case of the Mk 3).
I got mine from Strida Netherlands who had recently taken over UK distribution
http://www.strida.nl/en/service/contact.php
http://www.strida.nl/en/store/parts.php
They only list the Mk 3 pulley on the website spares list. If you want the Mk 5 pulley you'll have to email them.
The Mk 3 pulley mount is for an 18t sprocket - the Mk 5 pulley uses a 104mm BCD 4 bolt mount.
Surely, someone must stock spare parts in the US?
John in CR
100 TW
recumpence said:
I'd say even more, because these we get to ride instead of just wishing we could.
John
Hangdog98
10 W
While I think of it I'll throw this in the ring for your amusement. We used a toothed V belt on a bicycle a few years back. It was a THOR brand from Germany. I haven't seen them in a while but it worked very well and when properly tensioned, offered a cushioned drive without any slipping sensation. Strong too.
recumpence
1 GW
Cool. I like the auto tensioning rear pulley.
Matt
Matt
etard
100 kW
Miles,
Maybe (if you have time) you could go alittle more indepth about belt drive options and companies that accept single orders from the public in my drive belt thread. Or anyone else that has experience, please compile some sources, acceptable materials and shaft mounting bores, in the other thread. Speaking of....
I just got an email back from the distributor of http://www.carbondrivesystems.com and he said that they will have a 20 tooth sprocket available in January. Does anybody know the pitch and width of these belts?
Matt,
We are happy you are here, and I for one have gained a bounty of knowledge from your posts. I have a tendency to exhaust all options in pursuit of "the way" to do things. I could do worse than follow your lead.
thanks
Maybe (if you have time) you could go alittle more indepth about belt drive options and companies that accept single orders from the public in my drive belt thread. Or anyone else that has experience, please compile some sources, acceptable materials and shaft mounting bores, in the other thread. Speaking of....
I just got an email back from the distributor of http://www.carbondrivesystems.com and he said that they will have a 20 tooth sprocket available in January. Does anybody know the pitch and width of these belts?
Matt,
We are happy you are here, and I for one have gained a bounty of knowledge from your posts. I have a tendency to exhaust all options in pursuit of "the way" to do things. I could do worse than follow your lead.
thanks
recumpence
1 GW
There are just so many options on projects like this. I could make changes on my designs forever. At some point I just need to buckle down and settle on a design. That is what I did here. But, since setting on this design, I have not come up with any improvements. So, at least here in the idea stage, the design has evolved pretty far.
Anyway, Dave has finished the center links I showed earlier. He is sidetracked on a couple urgent orders from other customers. Those should be done in a day or two, the he is onto the motor plates. After that, there are a few brackets and what-not and some pulleys to be machined. It is looking like a couple weeks to get some drives all together.
Matt
Anyway, Dave has finished the center links I showed earlier. He is sidetracked on a couple urgent orders from other customers. Those should be done in a day or two, the he is onto the motor plates. After that, there are a few brackets and what-not and some pulleys to be machined. It is looking like a couple weeks to get some drives all together.
Matt
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