High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
MitchJi
10 MW
HI Matt,
I'd prefer the lightest possible setup. Are the lighter aluminum sprockets still a future item? You mentioned doing some custom machining to make the sprockets lighter. About how much weight would that remove and how much would that add to the cost? About how much does the dual stage drive weigh? Since I'm going to be waiting for Davids motor anyway I'd prefer waiting for the lightest version. I don't want to keep you waiting for payment however, so I'm happy to send the payment whenever you are ready.
I think you stated that the belt drives require either an idler, in which case there is a substantial loss of efficiency, or a very tight belt. Do you think the bearings on most RC motors can handle the load with no idler? (I'm concerned that Gary might have problems with his Hacker ).
Can the dual stage drive be mounted by bolting a bracket to the second stage "link" rather than using the mount you pictured? Is that what the holes on the link are for? If so does it need to be tied into the pictured mount for shaft support?
Would you mind posting the approximate pulley and sprocket diameters for two or three reduction values so we can determine the space required for the drive? I think the rough diameters for 24:1, 20:1, 16:1 and 12:1 would be good sizes to provide.
I have two questions about the FW adaptors:
recumpence said:All I have to do is order some second stage sprockets and chain. I haven't stock them yet because the large sprocket is pretty heavy (they are steel with a large OD set screw hub). So, I am looking at making my own sprocket adaptors to use aluminum scooter sprockets. That will save a lot of weight. Of course, I could always sell the drives with the steel sprocket and offer a lighter aluminum version afterward.
Matt
I'd prefer the lightest possible setup. Are the lighter aluminum sprockets still a future item? You mentioned doing some custom machining to make the sprockets lighter. About how much weight would that remove and how much would that add to the cost? About how much does the dual stage drive weigh? Since I'm going to be waiting for Davids motor anyway I'd prefer waiting for the lightest version. I don't want to keep you waiting for payment however, so I'm happy to send the payment whenever you are ready.
I think you stated that the belt drives require either an idler, in which case there is a substantial loss of efficiency, or a very tight belt. Do you think the bearings on most RC motors can handle the load with no idler? (I'm concerned that Gary might have problems with his Hacker ).
Can the dual stage drive be mounted by bolting a bracket to the second stage "link" rather than using the mount you pictured? Is that what the holes on the link are for? If so does it need to be tied into the pictured mount for shaft support?
Would you mind posting the approximate pulley and sprocket diameters for two or three reduction values so we can determine the space required for the drive? I think the rough diameters for 24:1, 20:1, 16:1 and 12:1 would be good sizes to provide.
I have two questions about the FW adaptors:
- I was planning to use one of your adaptors for the input end of my final output shaft, but I think the extra length will be too much. About how much will it cost to modify one of those adaptors for concealed setscrews?
I assume other than being slightly less convenient if they are properly torqued with the appropriate loctite concealed setscrews won't be a problem?
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Extremely easy configuration for mounting Matt's drive.
As Gary says a "Series Drive" would be an excellent choice, assuming I get the FW adaptors sorted :?
nomad85 said:
GGoodrum said:
Extremely easy configuration for mounting Matt's drive.
As Gary says a "Series Drive" would be an excellent choice, assuming I get the FW adaptors sorted :?
GGoodrum said:
I feel like a jerk, I didn't see your post until Mitch quoted it. Thanks for the advice
Series drive sounds a bit complicated. I was thinking about a left side drive similar to what Matt did on his recumbent. I would need a wheel built around a strong disc hub. I'm planning on using a surly single speed disc compatible hub, I think that will make the wheel stronger(less dishing) and I'll be able to carry more weight on it. Cost would be about 80$ for the hub, and then a rim and spokes, maybe labor for the wheel build if I don't do it myself(it would be my first try if I did)
Would it be cheaper/easier to do the series drive?
I can see the advantage that I would be able to use the bikes gears, but I am more concerned about wheel strength since I want to be able to take people on the bike with me, I don't mind a little loss in efficiency, I am making due with a hub motor right now...(my target top speed is 40-45 and I would likely go 30-35 most of the time if not slower, my e-bike is my car. I think this is doable without using multiple gears..?)
j3tch1u
10 kW
matt, would you offer a dual freewheel option for ppl with right-side dual chain drives like me? i run 9-sp chain from crank to output shaft and heavy duty bmx chain from output to rear hub. this necessitates a 1-way roller bearing, fw adapter, fixed sprocket behind a regular freewheel.
recumpence
1 GW
Two freewheel adaptors can be installed on the output shaft (longer shaft). But, that would increase the width of the drive so it would not clear the cranks.
Matt
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
nomad85 said:GGoodrum said:
I feel like a jerk, I didn't see your post until Mitch quoted it. Thanks for the advice
Series drive sounds a bit complicated. I was thinking about a left side drive similar to what Matt did on his recumbent. I would need a wheel built around a strong disc hub. I'm planning on using a surly single speed disc compatible hub, I think that will make the wheel stronger(less dishing) and I'll be able to carry more weight on it. Cost would be about 80$ for the hub, and then a rim and spokes, maybe labor for the wheel build if I don't do it myself(it would be my first try if I did)
Would it be cheaper/easier to do the series drive?
I can see the advantage that I would be able to use the bikes gears, but I am more concerned about wheel strength since I want to be able to take people on the bike with me, I don't mind a little loss in efficiency, I am making due with a hub motor right now...(my target top speed is 40-45 and I would likely go 30-35 most of the time if not slower, my e-bike is my car. I think this is doable without using multiple gears..?)
Singl speed will accomplish what you want if you have enough power. My recumbent tops out at 42mph (single speed left side drive) at 1400 watts. I would guess most upright bikes would require about 1800 to 2000 watts for 40 to 45mph.
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
It should be easier (either single speed or geared), if I can resolve the FW Adaptor/drive issues.
nomad85 said:
It should be easier (either single speed or geared), if I can resolve the FW Adaptor/drive issues.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Because you had the foresight to specify an adaptor design that can be modified for concealed set-screws I think it can work:
Width of one FW mounted on one FW adaptor:
1 FW - 18mm FW + 3 (?) mm shoulder + 12.7mm (.5") set-screw extension = Total Width 33.7mm
Width of two FW's mounted on 2 adaptors with the set-screw extensions removed and concealed set-screws:
2 FW's - 36mm + 2 shoulders 6mm = Total Width 42 mm
So with concealed set-screws and the 1/2" set-screw extension removed the additional width is only about an extra 8mm (.03") of width, which I think can be easily made to work on most bikes.
recumpence said:Two freewheel adaptors can be installed on the output shaft (longer shaft). But, that would increase the width of the drive so it would not clear the cranks.
Matt
Because you had the foresight to specify an adaptor design that can be modified for concealed set-screws I think it can work:
Width of one FW mounted on one FW adaptor:
1 FW - 18mm FW + 3 (?) mm shoulder + 12.7mm (.5") set-screw extension = Total Width 33.7mm
Width of two FW's mounted on 2 adaptors with the set-screw extensions removed and concealed set-screws:
2 FW's - 36mm + 2 shoulders 6mm = Total Width 42 mm
So with concealed set-screws and the 1/2" set-screw extension removed the additional width is only about an extra 8mm (.03") of width, which I think can be easily made to work on most bikes.
j3tch1u
10 kW
recumpence
1 GW
Unfortunately, I think much of this will require experimentation.
This is one major reason I made 30 of these adaptors in steel so they could be modded and welded to the shaft if set screws cannot be used because the shoulder is machined off.
Matt
This is one major reason I made 30 of these adaptors in steel so they could be modded and welded to the shaft if set screws cannot be used because the shoulder is machined off.
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
I need shoulderless (shorter) adaptors on both ends of the shaft. If they are welded onto the shaft there would be no way to remove the shaft.
If they are properly torqued with the appropriate loctite, other than being less convenient, do you think concealed set-screws will be a problem?
Thanks!
Mitch
recumpence said:
I need shoulderless (shorter) adaptors on both ends of the shaft. If they are welded onto the shaft there would be no way to remove the shaft
.If they are properly torqued with the appropriate loctite, other than being less convenient, do you think concealed set-screws will be a problem?
Thanks!
Mitch
johnrobholmes
10 MW
With appropriate torque and loctite you should have no issues, the FW can just remove as normal with the FW tool. You would have to hold the shaft somehow to prevent it from turning.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi John,
Thanks!
I think I'll have the adaptors made with a hole (about 1/4") in the face shoulders of the adaptors. For FW removal I can put a bolt in the hole and turn the shaft until the bolt snags a sturdy portion of the drive, then use the tool to remove the FW.
Thanks Again!
Mitch
johnrobholmes said:
Thanks!
johnrobholmes said:
I think I'll have the adaptors made with a hole (about 1/4") in the face shoulders of the adaptors. For FW removal I can put a bolt in the hole and turn the shaft until the bolt snags a sturdy portion of the drive, then use the tool to remove the FW.
Thanks Again!
Mitch
Hardcarve1
100 W
Just droped in on this thread late.
But I have used these FW adapters for my project and keyed the shaft.
http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3247
Alex
But I have used these FW adapters for my project and keyed the shaft.
http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3247
Alex
etard
100 kW
Matt,
Have I already asked for pics of the adapter? I can't remember between checking every fifteen minutes for updates on this drive. LOL
Anyway, I was wondering if you had figured out a fair price for a single stage drive with freewheel and adapter on the output shaft. Also, what is going to be the minimum motor shaft length that will work?
Have I already asked for pics of the adapter? I can't remember between checking every fifteen minutes for updates on this drive. LOL
Anyway, I was wondering if you had figured out a fair price for a single stage drive with freewheel and adapter on the output shaft. Also, what is going to be the minimum motor shaft length that will work?
recumpence
1 GW
Pretty much any RC motor will have adequate shaft length. Longer is better, But that is really not as abig a deal as you may think.
The single stage drive should be $220 with FW adaptor, but no freewheel.
D,
I checked my 22tooth FW and the 60 tooth pulley........
Yes, I can machine the pulley to accept the ENO 22 tooth freewheel inside it. The only way to do it, though, (other than the machining to the pulley itself) is to machine the teeth off the freewheel sprocket to provide clearance. Otherwise, the FW 22 tooth sprocket is to large (diameter).
Matt
The single stage drive should be $220 with FW adaptor, but no freewheel.
D,
I checked my 22tooth FW and the 60 tooth pulley........
Yes, I can machine the pulley to accept the ENO 22 tooth freewheel inside it. The only way to do it, though, (other than the machining to the pulley itself) is to machine the teeth off the freewheel sprocket to provide clearance. Otherwise, the FW 22 tooth sprocket is to large (diameter).
Matt
Hi Matt,
that is great news, thank you, i won't need the teeth anyway so lets go with that....... does it leave us with a decent amount of material on the slot edges if we take the teeth off completely to circular? i guess the force on the eno would be at the thick part on the side between the slots anyway?
yes,sounds great, can i send you an eno asap?
i've been trying to work out which way my freewheels need to freewheel and i still haven't solved it
looking at the freewheel adapter pics again is it possible to sink the eno into the pulley so that the assembly is minimally wide overall? or would this cause the pulley to be weakened?
cheers,
D
that is great news, thank you, i won't need the teeth anyway so lets go with that....... does it leave us with a decent amount of material on the slot edges if we take the teeth off completely to circular? i guess the force on the eno would be at the thick part on the side between the slots anyway?
yes,sounds great, can i send you an eno asap?
i've been trying to work out which way my freewheels need to freewheel and i still haven't solved it
looking at the freewheel adapter pics again is it possible to sink the eno into the pulley so that the assembly is minimally wide overall? or would this cause the pulley to be weakened?
cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
I think I can minimize the width for you. I can pretty much make the FW directly inside the pulley.
Also, if you are looking at driving the cranks on the right side, I can setup the FW with the correct orientation for you.
You can send me your freewheel or we can agree on a price for mine. It is brand new. I got it off E-bay, but do not remember what I paid for it. Or I can mod mine and you can send me yours. Either way is fine with me.
I actually need to order you a fresh 60 tooth pulley as well. All my pullies have been CNCed with a 4 spoke pattern. I need a solid pulley to mod for your application.
Matt
Also, if you are looking at driving the cranks on the right side, I can setup the FW with the correct orientation for you.
You can send me your freewheel or we can agree on a price for mine. It is brand new. I got it off E-bay, but do not remember what I paid for it. Or I can mod mine and you can send me yours. Either way is fine with me.
I actually need to order you a fresh 60 tooth pulley as well. All my pullies have been CNCed with a 4 spoke pattern. I need a solid pulley to mod for your application.
Matt
That is great news again Matt, thank you.
well i guess it depends what you want to do? if your happy to machine the eno you have i can either pay you for the eno or send you a replacement, whichever is your preference?
Im glad you know which orientation to machine at, i still can't work it out....MILES!!!!!!!
If you want/can Matt, pm me a final price that includes the single stage, the eno, the anodising and the extra machining time for the new pulley and anything else i've missed? then i can pay you in full up front which will help me too?
for anodising i'd like black everything except pulleys which i hope i can get in blue, if this isn't possible then black everything will suffice?
Let me know and i'll settle up with you in full whenever it suits you.
Thanks again Matt
D
well i guess it depends what you want to do? if your happy to machine the eno you have i can either pay you for the eno or send you a replacement, whichever is your preference?
Im glad you know which orientation to machine at, i still can't work it out....MILES!!!!!!!
If you want/can Matt, pm me a final price that includes the single stage, the eno, the anodising and the extra machining time for the new pulley and anything else i've missed? then i can pay you in full up front which will help me too?
for anodising i'd like black everything except pulleys which i hope i can get in blue, if this isn't possible then black everything will suffice?
Let me know and i'll settle up with you in full whenever it suits you.
Thanks again Matt
D
recumpence
1 GW
Alright! All bearings and shafts are in stock! I am ready to take orders.
Here is what I want from you guys;
#1 PM me your requests (single stage or dual stage).
#2 I will review the specific request and quote you on the finished drive. Single stage will be $220, dual stage is $380. This is for standard drives. Custom work is additional. Custom work is limited, though, depending on the request.
Two stage drives will require more waiting time than single stage due to ratio changes requested, etc.
I need to know motor screw hole spacing and clearance at the shaft front on outrunners to machin reliefs for shaft retainers.
At the beginning I will not be just shipping drives out from completed units on-hand. I will setup each drive individually. In time I will get an idea of the best arrangement to make so I can stock some completed drives.
Also, bear in mind, this is an extra business for me. I will only have 1 day per week to setup drives. I also still have a little shop time devoted to RC heli spares I make. I will do my best to keep up. But, with the semi custom side to this, there will be a wait for most orders as I find the time to set each on up.
So, start PMing me your requests.
Oh, also, I know this first 12 will sell immediately. That is OK, though, because I have lots of bearings and shafts in stock. The pulleys and CNC drive parts are not time consuming to have Dave remake. So, for those who are not on the first production run, it is no biggie. The second run will be quick to make, and larger in numbers.
Matt
Here is what I want from you guys;
#1 PM me your requests (single stage or dual stage).
#2 I will review the specific request and quote you on the finished drive. Single stage will be $220, dual stage is $380. This is for standard drives. Custom work is additional. Custom work is limited, though, depending on the request.
Two stage drives will require more waiting time than single stage due to ratio changes requested, etc.
I need to know motor screw hole spacing and clearance at the shaft front on outrunners to machin reliefs for shaft retainers.
At the beginning I will not be just shipping drives out from completed units on-hand. I will setup each drive individually. In time I will get an idea of the best arrangement to make so I can stock some completed drives.
Also, bear in mind, this is an extra business for me. I will only have 1 day per week to setup drives. I also still have a little shop time devoted to RC heli spares I make. I will do my best to keep up. But, with the semi custom side to this, there will be a wait for most orders as I find the time to set each on up.
So, start PMing me your requests.
Oh, also, I know this first 12 will sell immediately. That is OK, though, because I have lots of bearings and shafts in stock. The pulleys and CNC drive parts are not time consuming to have Dave remake. So, for those who are not on the first production run, it is no biggie. The second run will be quick to make, and larger in numbers.
Matt
Hi Matt,
i'll pm you in a while if that's ok, i think you know my spec already but i'm waiting for Gary to report on the hacker before i choose the motor.
I'll be after the anodising and custom pulley too so being as you have limited time i'm happy to wait for a bit for mine, although that said dont sell it!!!! i'm hoping one of the original 12 is for me
Cheers,
D
i'll pm you in a while if that's ok, i think you know my spec already but i'm waiting for Gary to report on the hacker before i choose the motor.
I'll be after the anodising and custom pulley too so being as you have limited time i'm happy to wait for a bit for mine, although that said dont sell it!!!!
i'm hoping one of the original 12 is for me Cheers,
D
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