hightekbikes.com motor kit review. Electric bike kit.

[dogman dan]

Yes. All the duct tape batteries are coming with sla chargers. The charge protocol is the same, but the end voltage is often different. If you have the soneil charger from the WE kit, you even have a charger that the voltage can be adjusted to lifepo4 setting.

On my 36v ping, the charger I recieved put out 46.5 volts. The cheap sla chargers usually put out 44 volts. Charging with the 44 volt charger gets you about 99% charged, but not balanced since the bms needs the higher voltage to activate itself. Once charged on the 44v charger, a well balanced pack would only charge about 10 minuites longer on the 46.5v charger. Longer of course if it actually needed to balance. I used a 44v charger for 3 months last summer, about 1000 miles, and when I finally tweaked my soneil up to 46.5 v, the pack was still in perfect balance. Three key things keep my pack balanced so well. 1 lowish discharge rate, 1c or less average. 2 the thing is pretty much on a charger 22 hours a day, 2 cycles a day. 3 typically I discharge to 75% max. I think so much time on the charger was keeping my pack balanced even without the bms kicking in.

 

[dogman dan]

Interesting ride yesterday on the 48v nicad pack. No real data since the wind was so strong, 35-50 mph. It was a good opportunity to climb a real huge hill with a tailwind. Almost had to use power to get back down the thing though! Normally a bike can easily hit 50 mph down this hill. ( San Augustine Pass on hwy 70 in Las Cruces NM) But even with the tailwind I could really feel a big improvement in hill performance at 48v. It was real fun to climb this hill again. I used to do it all the time at age 14. Tried it several times before the ebike in recent years, now way I was going to get up it now.

 

[Russell]

I used to do it all the time at age 14. Tried it several times before the ebike in recent years, now way I was going to get up it now.

E-bikes; they're like Viagra for aging bicyclists


-R

 

[dogman dan]

At 14 all I got to do was think about "it" :lol: But I could go burn off a lot of energy on the Augustine pass bike ride. From the pass you could climb a good mountain if you still had too much "energy".

 

[HighTekBikes]

Dogman, you have put as many miles on the new Aotema as anybody and have reported alot of valuable data. Could you summarize your commute with distances and elevations? What is the total load weight (you and bike). What results have you achieved for maximum range? Have you run it many times until the battery cuts out? Thanks again for the reports, keep em coming.

Russell, that was a great line, I might have to steal it. )

 

[dogman dan]

My commute route from work to home is 14.5 miles.

The first mile and a half is pretty flat. Then a 200' vertical hill to mile 3, about 3% grade on the steepest part. This hill is rode usually at 19-20 mph with full 36v throttle.

Next is about 5.5 miles down the bike trail that runs alongside I 25. This trail has 4 small hills along the way. One is very steep, but only about 200 feet long, and momentum gets you over it. These hills are about 50' tall or less, and riding speed varies between 20- 27 mph depending on uphill or down, and if there is a lot of walkers, I take it slower.

Now at the bottom of the big hill. The next mile and a half climbs 400 feet, several substantial parts of the hill are pretty low angle, but on the last mile it gets steep, 5% and after a short flat spot, 6% . I had previously measured this hill, and mistakenly estimated it at 9 or 10 % on the steepest bits. The last part of the ride is a long slow climb over 4.5 miles of distance to a final evevation 800 vertical feet from the start. Including the rolling hills on the bike trail. 950 to 1000 vertical feet of climb, and 150-200 feet of descent. On the steep hill, I ride 15-18 mph depending on how much I pedal and what gear I choose. On the long shallow hill to the house at the end, I usually can still maintain 20 mph.


The bike weighs 85 pounds with all the stuff in the toolbox and battery. I weigh 180 pounds. I haven't rode the bike to cutout much since I got the motor 716 miles ago. I stopped having a range problem since I got the brushless motor. The old brushed motor was having trouble with range in the winter. I will repeat the whole battery range test again when conditions permit. It's so windy in the spring, I can't get a test that repeats the conditions, temp and wind of the last one. The other day, riding straight into 10 mph wind, and climbing 1500 feet, I was able to go 28 miles on the 20 ah 36v battery. On that trip, I was riding about 12 mph for extra range. The only way I know to repeat a range test reliably is to ride full throttle all the way, and ride the same route each time. Riding full throttle, its harder to vary how much you pedal. I just kind of keep up a comfy cadence and don't pedal hard when testing range.

On the way to work, I use very little power, since I have mostly downhill all the way there. It's not such a killer ride, 14.5 miles climbing 800 feet, but when it gets to be over 100 F then it becomes a motor killer. There just isn't any easy ride for the motor to cool off on this route when going home. The thermometer is really helping me to learn what will help the motor run cooler when I need it to cool off, like just after the big hill.

 

[RTLSHIP]

So the Aotema can handle 48 v Nicad. Can it handle 48 v lifepo4? So far I have not read a post about it. 48 v lifepo is around 60 volts off the charger. maybe nicad is 60 v, too?

 

[dogman dan]

There have been a few cases where a WE with the 2007 controller has failed with 48v ping battery used. They did run for awhile though, so It's hard to say if it was from the 48v or the way it was ridden, or just "natural causes". My controller from high tech bikes has 63v caps in it. Some of the WE ones had 60v caps. My nicad pack is producing 56 volts at the start of the ride, but I bet it quickly drops further into the safe zone, where lifepo4 would stay at higer voltage longer. I've no idea if that makes a difference. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the controller will handle 48v in most cases, unless it doesn't. Controllers do fail at times, at the recomended voltage.

 

[HighTekBikes]

The caps in the controller are 63V and the mosfets are 75V. The 48V Lithium packs, as mentioned, will be at or close to 60V fully chargred. That should drop a little under load. So the caps would be close to their rating for short time. A little close for comfort but should be ok. The voltage regulator circuit is basically the same as the "Infineon" controller and is set as a compromise for 36V and 48V. The input resistors will get hot at 48V. You can use the procedures already documented in this forum to optimize for 48V. I am working on the LVC adjustment and will post info on that soon as well as the current sensing. You can do the solder on the shunt trick for now. I tested it at 25 amps, it should be good for 30A. It would probably a good idea to upgrade the mosfets for over 25A. And you will need anderson connectors and 12 guage wire. BTW, you can turn this controller into a sensored version simply by adding the sensor wires and connector, and disconnecting the sensorless converter module. I tested this on a Bafang and worked perfectly. I also tested this controller on a Goldenmotor (sensorless mode) and it worked fine.

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks for the clarification Terry. I just have a hard time saying " sure, go for it" when for all I know, some pesky component in there was about to fail at 36v anyway. A good controller should last a long time, but lots of things can cause them to fail, and then the 48v gets the blame. I heard of another brand of sensorless contoller popping because the rider applied throttle while rolling backwards. So it can be hard to say why a controller may fail, especially if the guy doesn't bother to mention the abuse he may have given it. Personally, I make sure to give the bike an inch of forward motion as I apply the throttle. I also get off the throttle quick if I think I'm about to stall the motor.

But this controller is well documented to run at 48v with no problems caused by the higher voltage. On my 36v pingbattery, I lose 2.5 volts in the first second of use, and then it runs at 44v thereafter for a long while. I would guess that most of the time a 48v pack would be running at 57? One solution to worrying about it would be to get a charger that puts out less voltage, like a regular sla charger, and use it most of the time, and use the higher voltage charger occasionally to balance the pack. Or use some device to remove the surface charge, like a 48v halogen bulb.

 

[RTLSHIP]

hightekbikes sells this controller, I recollect for about $89 plus $4 or 5 in shipping. If planning on keeping the Aotema, maybe investing in a second one is not a bad idea. 5 years from now it may be harder to find. Not a bad price. True, a controller can suddenly fail for a number of reasons other than 48v. Just like a car's ac or alternator. However, many of these controllers could prove to be stubbornly unfailing.

 

[ekingsting]

I just found the controller that I got with my Aotema (that has run 350 mi at 48v no problem so far, max 55.4v hot of the charger) for $50 and it comes with throttle. Complete kit $299. I don't want to upset terry as he contributes a lot to the forum. I am buying one for a spare. Anyone else interested in checking it out?

 

[Russell]

I just found the controller that I got with my Aotema (that has run 350 mi at 48v no problem so far, max 55.4v hot of the charger) for $50 and it comes with throttle. Complete kit $299. I don't want to upset terry as he contributes a lot to the forum. I am buying one for a spare. Anyone else interested in checking it out?

Does CS ring a bell? If it does then that kit is $370 with shipping to my zip compared to $329 with free shipping from HTB. Also the sensorless controller w/throttle they sell for $50 is NOT the same one which is sold with the Aotema kits, it's the one they include with their other kits (9C I believe).

-R

 

[ekingsting]

Thanks for info Russel. Hightekbikes seems to be the best way to go then Plus you get Terry and the forum for suuport. Unfortunately I purchased my kit from a liar on ebay last Dec. before I knew about this forum. What no regen? I suggest buying from someone like Terry or you take a big risk like I did but so farI have been lucky. I am very sastified with the Aotema performance to date.

 

[Russell]

Thanks for info Russel. Hightekbikes seems to be the best way to go then Plus you get Terry and the forum for suuport. Unfortunately I purchased my kit from a liar on ebay last Dec. before I knew about this forum. What no regen? I suggest buying from someone like Terry or you take a big risk like I did but so farI have been lucky. I am very sastified with the Aotema performance to date.

Are you still going to buy the controller w/throttle? I was looking at the one from CS to use with a 9C mainly because it's $64 and change delivered compared to $90 at HTB, plus it's smaller in size though it may also not be as robust. I was also looking at the kits there but the descriptions are riddled with discrepancies and I never got an answer to two emails I sent asking for clarification (unlike HTB who answers pretty quickly).

-R

 

[ekingsting]

I am also waiting for response from CS as I now want more info before purchase.

 

[RTLSHIP]

I'm a little skeptical about a $50. controller. The 2009 Aotema controller is a pretty fancy gadget and for 89.95 we have a reasonable price. I've seen BL-36(though heavy-duty 50 amp) controllers going for $125.+ and they probably are not as good as this product. The BL-36 has a history of fried controllers especially @ 48v.

 

[RTLSHIP]

I have one more thing to say about controllers. From what I've read controllers typically get blown up for 2 reasons.
One, overvolting and two overstressing the controller (eg. a 250 lbs person going up giant hills without any pedal assist).

 

[dogman dan]

Some of the ones WE sent out last summer just went poof the first time they got plugged in. Simple testing by the vendor could have avoided that. But yeah, lots of controllers blow from overvolting, shunt soldering, etc. I heard of one sensorless controller popping when the rider put on throttle with the bike rolling backwards. Uh yeah, that sounds like a good way to spike yer amps.

800 miles now on the kit, and loving it. No spoke problems, no controller cut outs on uphill starts. I did finally upgrade to andersons on all my batteries so I did cut the plug off the controller. Other than that, no modifications of any kind.

 

[dogman dan]

Amp rates for the aotema, aproximate.

Measuring with a really cheap amp meter, a 6 buck car type from harbor freight, Amp rates were measured in normal riding conditions. No suprises, previous estimates agree with the measured rates in todays test.

Highest rate when starting up or pulling hard to speed up is 25 amps.

Mostly, when gaining speed or pushing uphill, or into wind, 20 amps at full throtte.

When up to full speed and the motor is cruising, 17 amps average. This amp rate falls to 15 amps or even less if it is flat enough. If the motor starts to coast, it will fall as low as 5 amps. That coasting amps is similar to the draw with no load. Makes sense to me, there is no load on the motor.

Half throttle readings area about half that of full throttle. So at half throttle on flat ground, the amp rate is around 8 amps

It becomes easy to see how just a bit of hill, or headwind can put you into the 20 amp rate, where tailwind or downhill can put you into the 10 amp rate. This has huge impacts on range, which is why I keep saying to people, calculate what you need, and then double it when sizing a battery.

 

[Russell]

If the motor starts to coast, it will fall as low as 5 amps. That coasting amps is similar to the draw with no load. Makes sense to me, there is no load on the motor.

5A at no-load seems excessive. My Bafang draws about 0.85A with a freshly charged battery pack (~41V) spinning with the wheel off the ground or when I exceed the no-load speed on the road.

Oh and Dogman for someone who writes a lot of reviews you really should have a WU or CA meter

-R

 

[dogman dan]

Ok, send me one. It is a 6 buck amp meter. probobally has a threshold of 5 amps to read at all. Mabye I didn't run it no load long enough to be truly running with no load . I do keep meaning to get a cylcleanalyst, but I seem to always be buying another bike or battery instead. Of course, nobody else has the same motor and a watts up in the whole wide world who could chime in and add some data to the thread. Over the last year, I've seen people say thier aotema motors drew 10 amps, or say they drew 20 amps. In one short test, I saw both, but now I understand when and why. In any case, the thing I found interesting was how much wind direction or even slight inclines affected the amp rate. I think the cheapie meter is accurate enough in the middle of its measuring range, 10-30 amps, to give a good indication of relative rates of burn in different condititons. This test was for me, just a way to see if my previous estimates were within the ballpark or way off. They seemed pretty close, which is nice, since the assumption I was making to get the numbers was that my battery delivers 19 ah in the real world. A colledge degree did not make a scientist out of me, but a lifetime in construction gave me a lot of practice with guesstimating.

 

[MartyK68]

I received my Hightekbikes kit + 36V 10AH LiFePo4 battery Tuesday. I have it 90% ready to go and actually took it out for a test run a few times around the block tonight. Before I give you my impressions of the ride a few housecleaning items first.
1. Thanks to Dogman for his patient and thoughtful answers to my many questions!
2. Thanks to Terry at Hightekbikes for his quick answers and for putting together a great kit/battery combo

The kit/battery came in two separate packages. The kit seemed packaged adequately but in my opinion, based on pics I've seen, Amped Bikes really packages their kits top-notch - with the corner foam pieces that sandwich the rim and provide spaces for the components. Hightek's was surrounded by styrofoam with some components in boxes and some in plastic bags taped to the spokes.
There were no directions with this kit...not even the rudimentary chinese ones you sometimes see on other chinese items.

After I got it all unpacked I put tape, tube, tire on rim and did a "true" check. checked fine. I checked some pics on line and confirmed with Dogman that the wheel is to be mounted with the wires coming out the right side. check.

I put the battery on the charger and it took about 3 minutes for the red light to shut off - so the battery came nearly fully charged. I noticed the battery had anderson connectors on it to connect to the controller but the controller had a bullet plug...so I check the bags and sure enough in one of the bags was a wire harness with a bullet plug on one end and nothing on the other end - but there were a couple of anderson connectors floating around in the bag? I couldn't figure out why these would come not attached - especially since i purchased the kit/battery combo.
So I decided the easiest thing to do(since I have never attached andersons) was to cut the andersons off the battery and use a wire nut to connect the harness end to the battery. check.

I proceeded to mount the controller on the frame under my seat. check.

Then I mounted the battery on the rear rack and secured it with bungies and let the bullet plug stick out under my seat. check.
Then I made all the connections(except the throttle) and use tie-wraps to secure the wires - making sure I could have full steering on bike and not put any tension on the wires.

I'm all ready to test my bike except for the throttle not being mounted. I decide to try it anyways...I turn on the controller and I carefully gather the excess throttle wire and position the thumb throttle in my hand to so I can work it and steer with both hands (not too difficult).
I proceed to roll down the drive and hit the throttle gently...I start rolling...then I gradually move it to full throttle...
HOLY CRAP...This thing MOVES!!!!!!!!!!
I weigh 230lbs and the bike probably weighs 50lbs and I was going at least 20 miles per hour with NO pedaling. When I put the bike in high gear and pedaled about 25% effort at full throttle I was absolutely flying on flat ground - mid to high 20's for sure. I will be mounting a speedo on the rear wheel tomorrow and I will be mounting the throttle as well.

It's too early to say anything other than I'm excited as hell to start commuting on my bike. I will find out if 36V 10AH LiFePo is going to be enough but I suspect it will.
I have a 5 mile commute to work - relatively flat on the route I'm going to try. 1% - (1%) on mapmyride. I can plug in at work.
I live in Iowa and sometimes it can get just windy as hell here. I wasn't pleased about paying what I did for the LiFePo but it should pay for itself over SLA's based on 1000 cycles and Terry was offering a decent deal. Plus they are way lighter, etc...

I'll keep you guys posted!!
Marty

 

[HighTekBikes]

Marty, I did not connect the andersons because the pigtail might not have been long enough, so I was giving you the option to lengthen the wires. After hearing your feedback I have decided to add the andersons to the pigtail for all future orders. It was really too much to expect to have the customer to deal with installing the connectors. Every install is different, in particular how far the controller is from the battery. The customer can always make an extention or we can offer one as an option. Sometimes I think everyone is an electronics geek like myself. I do want to make this the easiest kit to install which I believe it is (other than this misstep). The connectors are all good, not the crappy big white ones you see on cheap scooter controllers. And there are no motor sensor wires to deal with. Not including an installation manual is inexcusable. I have been working one one as well as a video and will include the manual in future orders. Meanwhile, I am offering unlimited support by email and phone.

 

[MartyK68]

Terry,
I figured that was why the andersons weren't connected on the pigtail - to allow flexibility if you already had batteries, length, etc...Unfortunately for me I have never used andersons and was unsure how to put them on and if I had the right kind of tool to do it. In all fairness I could've just googled if I wanted to try. I'm so familiar with connecting wires with wire nuts that cutting them off the battery worked just fine - just seemed odd to cut perfectly good quality anderson off the battery.

Thanks again for your support and quick replies - to me that is important because not everything is going to perfect everytime, but if I know you are there that makes a huge difference. Being there to support your product and having a willingness to take suggestions to make it better is worth a great deal to most people on this forum I would guess.

I will commute my first day with it today. The test ride was unbelievable. This is faster than what I expected.
I will posting pictures of my set up in the next day or so when I get a moment.

Marty