Hobbyking LiFeP04 ?

Jason;

I used them up to last summer, when I switched over to Lipo's. Hobby King was often out of stock when you really need them. Overall the batteries were great. I didn't want spend several hundred at once for like a ping battery, I started with 12s2p setup, then expanded to 12s4p( I think thats right 2 groups of 12s2p).
Reasons I switch to Lipo's, cost, size and availbility. Same size battery for Life $69 vs Lipo $43. A12s2p Life take up as much space as a 18s2p Lipo, doesnt sound much, but you need all saving of space when trying mount couple sets. Lipo's were usually in stock, or if they are out, they get refilled quicker.
so for my 48v bike, my 12s Lipo charge to about 50v, where as my Life went to about 22v, Supposely Amps for a Life was about 4.5a compare to Lipo 5a. My Life's are used as a backup to my Lipo's, even though I can't carry all the batteries on a ride.
I had to overcome my fear of Lipo's, before I switched over.

later,

Jerry
 
thanks for the info.

i have no real fear of lipo as such. i have used lipo for many years with my various rc cars / boats / heli's etc.
just started using them on the trike about 6 months or so ago.

im running 12s2p with 4x zippy 6s 8000's.
i also run lvc alarms on the trike set at 3.5v. that, combined with my low level discharges on the trike,
i think im fairly safe. most rides (even the longer ones) im using no more than about 1/2 of the available ah.

i was just curious if anyone had used the life packs.

Jason.
 
Some info that might apply:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=Turnigy_4500mAh_6S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=HobbyKing+LiFePo4&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=%22HobbyKing+LiFePo4%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37893

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40589

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36957

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24846
 
thanks for the links AW.

makes for some interesting reading......

im still happy i went with 6S lipo, treated and monitored properly, i believe them to be safe enough for my needs.

Jason.
 
rocwander had a horrible problem with his hobbyking lifepo4. he could never get the resting voltage to stay where he thought it should.

lifepo4 is not like lipo. the resting voltage for lipo tells you a lot more than with lifepo4 and the resting voltage seems to more accurately indicate the SOC.
 
My batteries are sticker labeled "4400 mah", and have a silver rectangle where the turnigy logo is on the hobby king batteries, but otherwise look identical to the hobby king batteries. For a variety of reasons, I believe them to be the exact same batteries as HobbyKing sells as turnigy 6s2p 4500 mah LiFePo4, possibly even indirectly from hobby king.

I have two packs and have run 15 use cycles on them so far. I am keeping a log by editing the second post here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46287


Both packs seem to consistently require less time to fully charge cell number 5 than the other cells. The longer I have them, the longer they hold the surface charge, but they still exhibit some behaviors I consider weird.

So far, bottom line facts are:

They haven't puffed that I can tell (stacked with HDPE and fiberglass taped).

I have not done a scientific test yet, but using the required recharge ah, and 2.7 v per cell loaded alarm level, it appears my weakest cells have around 3800 mah of capacity. I plan to test this now that the cells seem broken in (hold surface charge longer), but haven't made time yet.

Bellow about 90% SoC and with less than ~3.8 ah used, the resting voltage of all cells generally match each other.

Resting voltage only weakly correlates with SoC. For example, one time it took less mah to charge from 3.18v than from 3.2v another time.

The two cells that reach full charge fastest hold their surface charge longest, making me suspect they are the good cells, rather than the bad cells in this imbalance situation, but I haven't tested that will a deep discharge yet.

The imbalance resulting from a 50% discharge cycle is on the order of 200 mah.

Under an 8-10 amp load with two packs in series, the voltage sags by about 0.2v per cell initially. If I measure from 3.3v/cell and ignore the inconsistent resting voltage drop during discharge at different SoC points, the voltage under load drops as the SoC drops, in a nominally linear way. Thus with a repeatable but inaccurate cell level voltage alarm, I have started figuring out an alarm voltage level setting which correlates roughly with an SoC, but measuring resting voltages doesn't seem to work the same way. Maybe this can be partly chalked up to the definition of "resting" or inconsistent temperature, or something like that.

I stopped messing with ways of getting an alarm while there is still a residual charge because 1.) I got my throttle working somewhat properly, and turned on cruise control, and now I can make the round trip on less than 50% of the rated capacity. and 2.) I have a watt meter.

So that's what I know. I'll try to keep posting my guinea pig data as long as the cells live, 5 cycles a week when it is cold, probably less once it warms up. If they make it that far, I may buy more of them to make a bigger pack for the family bike.
 
i would like to see someone use a ping signalab BMS on them so we could compare the hobby king lifepo4 to the new pouches that ping uses.

to see how the capacity compares doing a full 100%DOD to see how much capacity the hobby king packs have in order to compare to the ping pouches which do hold 5Ah.

that would make it a turn key fix that would be able to monitor the collection of hobby king pouches.
 
dnmun said:
i would like to see someone use a ping signalab BMS on them so we could compare the hobby king lifepo4 to the new pouches that ping uses.

to see how the capacity compares doing a full 100%DOD to see how much capacity the hobby king packs have in order to compare to the ping pouches which do hold 5Ah.

that would make it a turn key fix that would be able to monitor the collection of hobby king pouches.

I was thinking just today that an off the shelf 12s bms might be pretty easily made plug compatible with the jst-xh balance plugs on these packs, and that would be the best solution to my bulk charging overcharge prevention problem, with other obvious benefits, perhaps instead of cellogs and so on.

But then I came up empty searching here, so I assumed it is a really dumb idea... :D
 
actually you can keep the cell logs on those plugs and then you would just wire the sense wire cable for the BMS separately. you wanna do the hack on the cellogs anyway to get them to take power from all the cells. otherwise the pack gets unbalanced if you leave the celllogs attached.

it is possible to hack the ping signalab BMS to match a different cell count too. you could hack a 16S to 15S and so forth. so it would balance a non standard number of cells.
 
dnmun said:
actually you can keep the cell logs on those plugs and then you would just wire the sense wire cable for the BMS separately. you wanna do the hack on the cellogs anyway to get them to take power from all the cells. otherwise the pack gets unbalanced if you leave the celllogs attached.

it is possible to hack the ping signalab BMS to match a different cell count too. you could hack a 16S to 15S and so forth. so it would balance a non standard number of cells.
I'm not finding where it can be bought separately. What do these cost? Is it not in the store, but available from ping? I'm not too worried about the cell log imbalance. That's less than 10% of the "inherent" imbalance anyway. I am worried about electronics... ineptitude... when I get into stuff like this.
 
you can pm ping here on the sphere or send a message to his store at pingbattery.com. i don't know how much he charges for them now, but they are well made and have the leds that twinkle as the pack charges up. the cellogs require a special 9 pin jxt plug. of course hobby king does not sell the plug. not sure where you can buy the plug.
 
rocwandrer said:
My batteries are sticker labeled "4400 mah", and have a silver rectangle where the turnigy logo is on the hobby king batteries, but otherwise look identical to the hobby king batteries. For a variety of reasons, I believe them to be the exact same batteries as HobbyKing sells as turnigy 6s2p 4500 mah LiFePo4, possibly even indirectly from hobby king..

But they are not Turnigy packs bought from HK !!
..unless you can 100% confirm they are the same packs, any data is really not relavent to the OP question.
 
Hillhater said:
rocwandrer said:
My batteries are sticker labeled "4400 mah", and have a silver rectangle where the turnigy logo is on the hobby king batteries, but otherwise look identical to the hobby king batteries. For a variety of reasons, I believe them to be the exact same batteries as HobbyKing sells as turnigy 6s2p 4500 mah LiFePo4, possibly even indirectly from hobby king..

But they are not Turnigy packs bought from HK !!
..unless you can 100% confirm they are the same packs, any data is really not relavent to the OP question.

I can't 100% confirm. But I can disclose that, and say the label/shrink looks the same, but with the turnigy part removed. Someone could look under theirs and see if there is a silver rectangle under the turnigy label.. anyway, not 100% sure, so know that before using my experiences as evidence on these packs.
 
It's been almost three years since this post was updated. I have seen HK offers 5s LiFePO4 batteries:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14071__ZIPPY_Flightmax_4200mAh_5S1P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack.html

at an apparently decent price and weight. Please note these batteries are also available in Europe, it is not very often one can find LiFePO4 batteries in Europe.

Are there any reviews? I guess that if after 3 years, this product has not picked up is for some reason, but I was wondering if this could be a product well suited to the new range of low power, low consumption batteries that have been recently appearing into the market.
 
I know this thread is well over a year old, but I'm still on this idea of LiFePo4 packs bring used as LiPo's. I asked Ping if he could make something like this - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10310__Turnigy_4500mAh_3S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack.html with balance and power leads, no BMS - basically, same as LiPo, but with the LiFePo4 stability (safety) and lifespan. His response was that yes, he can make it, but there won't be any warranty. So my question is, if we all know that he makes quality cells, and I'd have a balancing charger to take care of the balancing prior to riding, what are your thoughts, considering my idea of a versatile setup, his quality, LiFePo4, bricks, etc?
 
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16575__a123_3_3vb_lithium_ion_2300mah_single_cell_battery.html

Colour me suspicious?
 
I think those have been out of stock for years. Wish they would prune the site better, and remove stuff they will never have again.
 
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20838__ZIPPY_Flightmax_2500mAh_6_6V_5C_LiFePo4_Receiver_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

6.6v and 2500mah. if i buy 32 packs, 4p and 8s for 10ah and 52,8v. this is also 5c discharge, higher than most prebuilt lifepo4 packs, total cost is $287.

Is this possible as an ebike battery? would it work? thanks! anyone knows what charger would i need for it?
 
I wouldn't.

People have already reviewed/trialed the 30C HK LiFePO4 and found it OK, but used at much lower C rates (3C ?).

That battery you link is designed for a receiver, so presumably relatively low current applications or low duty cycle. Piddly little discharge leads. Not a traction battery. Surely 5C would be a pipedream. You can always buy one to test, I haven't seen any one here on ES use them.
 
What about the following lifepo4 pack instead? the special discount price for each is $15.87.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14062__ZIPPY_Flightmax_3600mAh_2S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack.html


8 series and 3 parallel for 52.8 v and 10.8ah. total price = 24*15.87 = $380.88. Even if it's not really 30c, lets says it's 10c, thats still damn good for lifepo4 at this price range.
 
Once you add a BMS and a charger OR balancer, power supply and lvc battery monitors (remember LiFe voltage plummets fast at low SOC) then does it lose cost advantage over prepackaged LiFePO4?
Might offer advantages like modularity though.

It can work but I'd be conservative and assume it's 3C.
This is probably the thread I was thinking of.
 
Gregory said:
Once you add a BMS and a charger OR balancer, power supply and lvc battery monitors (remember LiFe voltage plummets fast at low SOC) then does it lose cost advantage over prepackaged LiFePO4?

yea that's what i was debating over, but even at that price, it's still higher C than prepackaged lifepo4 so it might be worth it. and it's safer than lipos.

Thanks for the links, after reading that, i'll probably stay away from these and get a prepackaged lipof4.


Hopefully, these will get better and cheaper over the years
 
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