How to wheelie with my 4kw bike?

[MrDude_1]

The answer is not technology, it is balance.
To learn wheelies, I suggest being able to MANUAL first. (lots of youtube vids explain Manuals)
A Manual is when you move your butt back way over the rear wheel, extend your legs, and pull with your arms to raise the front from weight alone.
When the nose gets too high, move butt forward and bend legs...when nose gets low extend legs and butt back.
Once you find this balance and control...wheelies are EASY with even a SMALL amount of power.

bah. get the power control down, you dont need to mess with your weight.. just lift the nose higher/lower....

true you need to get to the balance point, but I like having the motor get me there, not moving my butt. :lol:

 

[Leebolectric]

It's all about learning to be dynamic on the bike....ignoring the skill necessary is dangerous.
It is NOT a car, where you just sit there...your weight is your greatest tool in controlling the bike.
I personally fear for the safety of someone who can lift the front wheel with the motor...but can't shift their weight.
How do you think you steer while on one wheel?...you lean.....if you can't lean and balance effectively, you bleed.

 

[r3volved]

This might help understand balance and motion...if you're relying on motor power without knowing how to wheelie an un-powered bicycle - you're gonna have a bad time.
Bicycle:
[youtube]bSqkKtnMM_U[/youtube]
Stinkbike:
[youtube]i3ob0kEKk-4[/youtube]
Ebike:
[youtube]1xID556Nevw[/youtube]

 

[MrDude_1]

It's all about learning to be dynamic on the bike....ignoring the skill necessary is dangerous.
It is NOT a car, where you just sit there...your weight is your greatest tool in controlling the bike.
I personally fear for the safety of someone who can lift the front wheel with the motor...but can't shift their weight.
How do you think you steer while on one wheel?...you lean.....if you can't lean and balance effectively, you bleed.

I think we're saying the same thing, two different ways.

On your regular bike, the bike weighs little and you weigh multiple times what it does. You move alot.
On my motorcycles, the bike weighs multiple times what I do. My weight is an input, but can be completely overshadowed by the bike.

An ebike is somewhere in the middle, and probably requires a little of both.

 

[Leebolectric]

exactly

 

[MadRhino]

Yep, being able to do a manual does help, but wheelie on a powerful ebike is very different. It is closer but also different from a motorcycle because we have no clutch. Unless you are willing to cut the power and pull a manual, or balance your build as to being able to control a power wheelie, you will have a hard time to learn to wheelie your ebike.

A mid drive can make it much easier, for it is giving you better throttle control range in low gear. With a hub build, especially with 10+ Kw and/or fast top speed, the solution relies mostly in geometry because it is the only way to achieve precise control of the lift with a short throttle travel. When it is doing 0 to 100 Kmh with a third of a twist, your bike's geometry needs to be balanced to give you precise control. If you have to kiss the front wheel to make it drift, you will never have a good control of the lift.

 

[drew12345]

Have a question for you guys. I know normally a right brake is used to help with controlled braking for wheelies. For our bikes, can we use variable regenerative brake lever on left side (or thumb throttle for same purpose) so can help with braking? I don't have regenerative braking enabled so wondering if this is an option before I go down this route and will have same effect as right brake? Will variable regenerative braking give good braking control?

 

[Chalo]

I'd be astounded if any form of e-brake was immediate or controllable enough to help you hold a wheelie. For that, I think you need the instant, direct feedback that comes from a mechanical brake.

 

[MrDude_1]

I'd be astounded if any form of e-brake was immediate or controllable enough to help you hold a wheelie. For that, I think you need the instant, direct feedback that comes from a mechanical brake.

and thats a sad statement of the control we get from current controllers.

 

[Chalo]

A lot of the e-throttles I've tried (by which I mean throttle style interface plus controller) don't seem fast or linear enough to do a good job holding a wheelie, and they're way more on point than the PASes and e-brakes I've checked out.

The nice thing about a direct mechanical control like a cable brake is that you can get all the values between zero and maximum. I've not come across an electronic control for EVs that didn't have some amount of dead zone near zero/off, followed by an abrupt application of force at some threshold signal value.

 

[MrDude_1]

A lot of the e-throttles I've tried (by which I mean throttle style interface plus controller) don't seem fast or linear enough to do a good job holding a wheelie, and they're way more on point than the PASes and e-brakes I've checked out.

The nice thing about a direct mechanical control like a cable brake is that you can get all the values between zero and maximum. I've not come across an electronic control for EVs that didn't have some amount of dead zone near zero/off, followed by an abrupt application of force at some threshold signal value.

Its not the electronic control... for example, just look at all the sportbikes with throttle by wire.

 

[Chalo]

Segway is a great example of electronic control living up to its potential.

E-bike controls as I've experienced them firsthand are a great example of electronic controls not living up to their potential.

I've never seen an e-brake that even had a sensor that could offer what y'all are talking about, let alone deliver on that offer.