Hub Motor no pwr. No chugging shorted or unshorted?

[Bryannagirl]

Purchased a SAMEBIKE folding e-bike. It looked as if it had never ran. It had been passed down to several people so history is unknown. Had no key. Had to drill out and buy replacement key is in battery and has on off switch to BMS. Fixed brakes and tuned derailer. Batt voltage charged to 54.5 and on off switch works. Wires where mess so unplugged and rerouted and connected to controller. Also meter wires cut at meter purchased replacement and hooked it up. All was looking good meter turned on bike and headlight with buttons - brake lights worked front and rear when brakes pulled. Tried throttle first no pwr to motor. The tried turning crank in all three PAS settings still nothing. Disconnected everything from controller except the Hal sensor the three phase wires and pwr and throttle - trying to eliminate e-brake problems - still nothing - disconnect the the Hal and three phase wires - resistance was low and equal between all phases. Checked - phase to motor hub screws - resistance showed open as expected - tried shorting phases but there is no chugging and no difference at all between shorted and open. Note did get a e-bike tester initial test showed Hal was working but second test showed it wasn’t - returned tester have replacement on the way phase test showed nothing but may not have spun wheel fast enough. I am new to e-bikes. As kid worked in bike shop so know basics of bicycles also have electrical and electronic background. So been trying to fill gaps with some YouTube university. - currently at loss. Waiting for new tester will double check connections and maybe remove rear wheel ( note it is mag not spoked ) and look inside - am I missing anything before I brake open the hub - do all E-bike motors chug when phase shorted any other multimeter tests? Suggestions much appreciated - thanks in advance PS from looking at tires I do not think this bike ever was operational - folded and unfolded and passed from one person to the next none have success - I am stubborn and persistent so will keep trying

 

[Chalo]

If it's a geared motor with a freewheeling clutch, then shorted phases will only reveal themselves when you try to turn the motor backwards.

If turning the motor backwards shows very different behavior with the controller being plugged in versus unplugged, then you have at least one borked controller phase FET.

If the motor stinks like it's been burned, you could have cooked halls or even shorted phase windings.

Having a sensorless controller around for fault checking is a very good idea for the kind of investigation you're doing.

 

[E-HP]

Are all the components stock, including the display (exact replacement), or was the bike modified before you got it? It could be a mismatch in the wiring order for the phase and hall wires, but that would be unusual if everything is stock. If someone cut the meter wires, and there’s no key, it seem like the bike had issues. Any chance it was stolen?

 

[docw009]

Picture sure looks like a geared motor. With any phase short circuited, motor will not want to turn backward.

Since it's all the same bike, matching the wire colors in the motor cable should give you correct phase/sensor wiring. Did you buy the display from Samebike or did you match it by picture online> DIsplays and controllers should come from the same source, otherwise they may have different firmware even if they look identical, but even then throttle should work.

Best thing is to get your new motor tester and see if it flashes the Hall signals when connected to the wheel. Some of them will also connect to the controller, phases/sensors. It will tell you if all three phase wires and sensors inputs are working, but not necessarily if you have them in sync.

 

[Bryannagirl]

If it's a geared motor with a freewheeling clutch, then shorted phases will only reveal themselves when you try to turn the motor backwards.

If turning the motor backwards shows very different behavior with the controller being plugged in versus unplugged, then you have at least one borked controller phase FET.

If the motor stinks like it's been burned, you could have cooked halls or even shorted phase windings.

Having a sensorless controller around for fault checking is a very good idea for the kind of investigation you're doing.

I just got a controller with intelligent learning - I was also able to verify that Hal sensor is working - going to flip bike to allow wheel turn. The tester showed no 5 v coming through controller when I tested the other controller I have does show 5 v. So thinking have controller issue - note it does produce 5 v checked with meter just not from Hal effect connector - per wires confirmed in right place for Hal

 

[Gruesome]

By 'meter' (in 'all meter wires cut' in your first post) you mean display, right?

But more importantly, when you short all three motor phase wires together solidly, and turn the wheel, there is no increase in the resistance you feel compared to non shorted, in either wheel direction?
I think that indicates that there is no varying magnetic field intersecting the coils. So either the clutch (if this motor has a clutch/free wheeling mechanism) or the gearing (if this is a geared hub motor) is broken, so that turning the wheel does not turn the motor, or the permanent magnets are missing or demagnetized.

 

[Bryannagirl]

Are all the components stock, including the display (exact replacement), or was the bike modified before you got it? It could be a mismatch in the wiring order for the phase and hall wires, but that would be unusual if everything is stock. If someone cut the meter wires, and there’s no key, it seem like the bike had issues. Any chance it was stolen?

No not stock screen got very basic on. I may missing features but think it will work for now - bike is old enough SAMEBIKE does not make bike anymore

 

[Bryannagirl]

Update - original controller is not good 5v output has zero volts. Motor is good when hooked up intelligent program wires motor spun in correct direction. Thinking about a controller meter combo. Will need to build custom connector for the throttle because they used a five pin with extra going to horn button could convert throttle to three pin and run horn off another hot lead. I believe it is also 5 volts. Opened up original controller to examine the circuit board no signs of damage or smell of damage. So not sure what killed it but clearly not there tested continuity from board to Hal connector for hot and ground and they were good. Bike has lots of features need to address or ignore. Brake and tail light head light and horn. Wish me luck making standard off shelf controller function in same way original did except with operating motor

 

[99t4]

Yes to new controller meter combo from the same source. They almost never work mix and match among different makes and models.

 

[Bryannagirl]

I had purchased a controller for testing it had right power connector and Hall sensor and phase lines plus had intelligent recognition so I could test and not wait a month for a better match. The controller I got is missing the 5 pin meter connector the original one has it does have some options that did not exist on my current controller. First what is same: phase and Hal low brake times two, PAS, Throttle, Headlight - what it has extra electric door lock, cruise, high brake, shift three speed, jog three speed, brake light power, reverse gear, multiple data meter (1 wire), phase meter (1 wire), and Hal meter (1 wire). What’s missing the 5 pin meter connector. Not stock hub has speed sensor and wire going to Hal connector - so I am thinking I can live with out a meter. But also means can’t change PAS level. I did buy a cheap meter it has power, headlight, and PAS selector - 4 option for PAS 123 and none. Any idea on if this controller any of those meter functions usable. What does the three speed shift and jog do what does phase, Hal, and Multi data meter do. I have a connector kit so can make new connections and jumpers if needed - any ideas?

 

[Chalo]

To my knowledge, a display must match a controller not only with its plug format and computation hardware, but also with its specific firmware. It's extremely unlikely you'll get a combination to work together if they weren't made to work together.

 

[Bryannagirl]

Yes I have combo enroute but was thinking about making it work with this controller - most basic is low brake phases Hal power and head light tail light PAS and throttle my guess it will work since it does not have meter 5 pin

 

[Masterofnone23]

Hey guys new on here but I’m having issues. I just bought a LED tail light strip for my bike. I use a sabvoton controller 72v. The problem I’m having is when I connect the the running to the running light wire and the the brake light to the brake light wire my bike puts up a caution sign the display screen when I put the running night lights on or switch it to lights on. The bike doesn’t want to go when I hit the throttle. Almost like a safty switch. When I unplug the running brake light wire the caution sign goes away and the bike runs fine but without the running light. Anyone with this issue?

 

[Bryannagirl]

Could be HiBrake make sure you are not putting power to high brake because it will disable motor. So just to double check when tail light is off bike works when on it doesn’t - is that right?

 

[Masterofnone23]

Could be HiBrake make sure you are not putting power to high brake because it will disable motor. So just to double check when tail light is off bike works when on it doesn’t - is that right?

Weird part is that everything works low running light and brake light works but it just throws up a caution sign up making it not want to work. I’ll double check but I’m but sure where the low running tail light goes then. Or brake light

 

[Masterofnone23]

Could be HiBrake make sure you are not putting power to high brake because it will disable motor. So just to double check when tail light is off bike works when on it doesn’t - is that right?

It’s only when I put on the running light or light switch on that it puts the code up. Otherwise I put day time lights on and it runs fine

 

[Bryannagirl]

Sounds like E-brake being activated. Get rear wheel up in the air. Use throttle to get wheel spinning - then pull a brake and note how the hub motor stops release brake motor should start. Now repeat by turning on light switch does it act the same as activating the brake if yes may be the high brake. - high brake is used to power rear brake light on some bikes but if light switch is getting power from high brake then it would kill hub motor when on if wired directly. Think of high brake as a switch that turns on when the load (like a light) is connected to ground. For a controller when high brake is grounded it assumes a brake has been applied and cuts power to Hub motor.

 

[Masterofnone23]

Sounds like E-brake being activated. Get rear wheel up in the air. Use throttle to get wheel spinning - then pull a brake and note how the hub motor stops release brake motor should start. Now repeat by turning on light switch does it act the same as activating the brake if yes may be the high brake. - high brake is used to power rear brake light on some bikes but if light switch is getting power from high brake then it would kill hub motor when on if wired directly. Think of high brake as a switch that turns on when the load (like a light) is connected to ground. For a controller when high brake is grounded it assumes a brake has been applied and cuts power to Hub motor.

I will give that a shot thank you. But if so we’re do I put the wire for the brake and the running light?

 

[Bryannagirl]

It depends on the controller - I am fixing a bike right now that had motor that would not turn at all turned out to be controller - look up on YouTube hooking up tail light and brakes