Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw NO LONGER FOR SALE

[hillzofvalp]

oops

 

[jacobbloy]

Hi guys does any one want to part with there hubmonster, I would prefer if you lived in Australia I'm based in Adelaide, I just wanted to ask just before I order 2 thanks guys

 

[John in CR]

Good luck with that. I don't think a single customer has parted ways with any of the 3 models of motor I've sold, except included on a complete bike built for sale. I work to ensure that the motor is a good match for their needs before the sale, and that probably helps account for the absence of any failures as well.

 

[Bluefang]

I ll part with mine if you buy the road legal motorbike conversion with 32kw peak power input and a 8kwh battery pack that is wrapped around it.

 

[Animalector]

how much you want for it?
Andy

 

[Bluefang]

$12,000ono inc shipping to the eastern side of Aus. But i ll need to keep the bike for the next few weeks(going away for one of them) to test out the oil cooling i am doing to the hub to make sure it works as i expect and dyno it too. The bike will come with a guarantee that if the bike has problems that is not a simple over the phone fix i ll come to where the bike is to repair it assuming its not gross user error. But saying that its pretty solid and bomb proof. With the oil cooling i am hoping to keep the bike bomb proof and not have to worry about debris entering the motor. Kelly controllers have their own warranties, the hub is protected by a thermistor in the windings that a Cycle Analyst is monitoring before adjusting the throttle. The batteries are Lipo with a BMS on each pack, CA limits/cuts the throttle before the BMS kick in. 2x900W chargers, 1 mounted on board and one for extra power when you want.

I plan to keep building bikes too so if i get a successful business out of the bikes i will also buy the bike back or trade it for a "production" bike.

 

[cwah]

cwah,

An everything to everyone bike isn't possible. Some of your list of wants seems in conflict to me. eg High speed with great torque and foldable to baggage size isn't reasonable even after a 4X improvement in batteries and speed requires more wheelbase. Passenger capable requires wheelbase too, and I think that's in conflict with a stair capable city bike. You need 2 or 3 ebikes.

Price is unknown, but base units will be as low cost as possible, and low labor costs here gives us a competitive advantage over developed world shops. Of course variations with costly exotic materials and/or custom dimensions would be higher priced, but I have too much of a conscience to ever come close to what I consider to be the larcenous prices so common with bicycles. High volume is our goal. Regarding shipping we will work toward cheap shipping at least to N America, but bulk shipments to Europe isn't in the cards at this point. CR exports a lot of bananas and coffee, so if much of that goes straight to Europe, then I could be wrong and relatively small volume crates could be economical.

First are the bikes and getting past the vaporware stage as soon as possible.

Any news?

 

[cwah]

Hey John,

I've seen this bike for sale:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57635&p=859937&hilit=genesis#p859937

I'm thinking to get it and put your hubmonster on it? Is it easy to do?

 

[John in CR]

Anything is easy if you can work a bit of metal. That's not the bike I'd start with though. Doesn't it already come with enough motor to kill you anyway?

Send me a pm with your location, planned use, your weight, speed and range goals, and a rough budget. I'll lay out some ideas for you. For use on smooth roads my battery in the extended swingarm has worked surprisingly well.

 

[cwah]

Yes the motor looks ok, but I was thinking that if I can get more torque and have more efficiency, why not get your one? :lol:

Here's a video of my city riding:
[youtube]t9vuGRYKaQI[/youtube]

There are load of red light everywhere. Like every 30second ride I have a red light. My issue are these frocking taxi driver who do not care and some other drivers. So I want maximum acceleration on start to avoid them. My BPM at 2.8KW is not enough. It starts barely as fast as the Taxi guys and moped.

50mph is enough too. But I'm planning to lay something like 20kg batteries on it.

I think the biggest issue I have now is space. I live in central london. I need to be able to fit the bike in a lift of about 1m70 long... :x

pm sent

 

[John in CR]

I'm running mine at 27kw peak input, and since it's far more efficient, it's like running 11 or 12 BPMs in 52" wheels. I'd put a 2nd BPM, same code, in the front wheel running at a slightly lower current and a much lower phase/battery current limit ratio. That should give you the acceleration you need, and system redundancy so you're never left to leg power alone as long as your battery has juice. With the right current settings that avoid motor cause front loss of traction, or get with MWKeefer about his traction control programming, and you'll have a safer bike to ride, especially in inclement weather, because 2wd is better as long as you keep both wheels on the ground.

 

[Dauntless]

Now you need 3:
-an offroad Hanebrink-like bike with a hubmotor using the 2 speed mini that's very light and pedalable
-a mid drive high efficiency trike with power and pedals.
-a faired road rocket with power and speed. Sure it has pedals for legal reasons, but an electronic chain, so the pedals turn a regening small motor, and while it's not a lot of power when riding hard, the vehicle is so efficient thru the air and at the motor that a hundred watts of recharge along with 50-100W continuous charge from the sun does add meaningful range.

John

Yeah, I was thinking along those lines. The 'Hanebrink-like' might be better served by a 'Madass-like.'

I'm running mine at 27kw peak input. . . .

I'm trying to look stuff up for myself, but I'm just not finding it. There are a WHOLE LOT of pages on this thing, I could be zipping right past. What's the voltage/amperage for that? Controller? Is there a link to a site selling them, etc.?

 

[jansevr]

im pretty sure hes running 30s so 126v fully charged. so thats around 200 amps to get 27kw. i believe the controllers he is running are the greentime ones. probably 36 fet:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...shless-speed-controller/313864_522264306.html

at that voltage they would have to be custom fets, maybe 4115?

since the hubmonster is a 6 phase motor he runs 2 controllers. so 100amps each

 

[cwah]

I'm running mine at 27kw peak input, and since it's far more efficient, it's like running 11 or 12 BPMs in 52" wheels. I'd put a 2nd BPM, same code, in the front wheel running at a slightly lower current and a much lower phase/battery current limit ratio. That should give you the acceleration you need, and system redundancy so you're never left to leg power alone as long as your battery has juice. With the right current settings that avoid motor cause front loss of traction, or get with MWKeefer about his traction control programming, and you'll have a safer bike to ride, especially in inclement weather, because 2wd is better as long as you keep both wheels on the ground.

Yeah I'm thinking about the dual bpm but it would't be very noisy and I'd keep the same max speed. I wouldn't be able to use the throttle to the maximum at the beginning either because the clutch need a slow start first..

Why do I need less current on the front? I would have put as much current on the front as the back.

 

[parabellum]

Why do I need less current on the front? I would have put as much current on the front as the back.

Because all the weigh goes to the back wheel at acceleration and you can loose a grip in the front, front wheel spinning faster then the back wheel. Rule of thumb is 70% back 30% front load at acceleration and vice verse at breaking.

 

[cwah]

but if I bend very hard on the front, it should compensate right? Then I can have MAX traction on both wheel?

 

[John in CR]

im pretty sure hes running 30s so 126v fully charged. so thats around 200 amps to get 27kw. i believe the controllers he is running are the greentime ones. probably 36 fet:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...shless-speed-controller/313864_522264306.html

at that voltage they would have to be custom fets, maybe 4115?

since the hubmonster is a 6 phase motor he runs 2 controllers. so 100amps each

I'm using a pair of Zombiess high voltage 24fet controllers. Yes on the 30s, but charging cuts off at 124V, though that's irrelevant. Unlike almost anyone on the ES planet I err on the conservative side, so use nominal voltage which is 111V. It has sags lower on my speed runs, but in regular riding I never hold WOT that long so minimum voltage is typically about nominal. Max current from the battery from the combined pair of controllers is 245A, and with the 1.5:1 phase/battery current limit ratio I use hitting max current requires going to WOT early and holding it thru at least 50mph before current tops out. No use dumping current by the shovel full at very low speed, since it would mostly turn into heat. After a revolution or 2 of the tire acceleration is pretty extreme, so no need to lean on the current any harder. Bluefang and Hillsofvalp both run theirs at significantly higher current, but that's on motos, not a lightweight ebike.

 

[jansevr]

finally got my motor and controller after missing UPS the first two times! this thing is a monster! i apologize to John - that i was not able to purchase the motor directly from him. I got a deal on a used motor/controller combo from a user on ES that was too good to pass up. in the future i can definitely see myself purchasing a few more motors for friends or maybe even a new one for myself after i build and possibly sell this one.

i will hopefully have some time this summer to make a custom swingarm to attach to my turner dhr bike:

current build with hs3540

DSCF0147 by mjansevreeling, on Flickr

DSCF0173 by mjansevreeling, on Flickr

the controller is a massive 1'x6"x3" nearly double my 24 fet greentime

DSCF0176 by mjansevreeling, on Flickr

so there you have it John. finally someone (ME!) that will be mounting a hubmonster on a lightweight bike (relatively lightweight* - im aiming for 150lb total bike weight). also i weight about 175lbs so this thing should really fly with a total weight around 300-350lbs!

 

[liveforphysics]

Wow!

I predict you will soon know the meaning of 'torque'. It's a good thing to learn.

 

[jansevr]

i think so, Luke ever since i first stumbled on ES i have been enthralled by the high powered bikes people such as yourself and John have made. now i will finally be joining you guys relatively soon! thank especially to you, Luke and John - for your inspiration and motivation for me to continue learning and getting me to this point!

 

[John in CR]

At a Kv of 16-17 it's a speed wind, so I try to downplay torque expectations off the line. It's all in the gearing. eg At my voltage mine is geared for over 100mph with peak input of 27kw. Take a more common motor that can accept half that peak power that has a top speed of just over 50mph, and the perception of torque is going to be about the same. Well, up to about 25mph it will, after which Hubmonster will rapidly pull away. That's the beauty of speed winds...they just keep pulling to whatever reasonable speed you're willing to go.

Don't worry, with that light load you'll fly, and as long as that controller can deliver the motor will supply more torque than you can put to use with that wheelbase and CG height. I just don't want people to think they can do a long bike, and put their saddle up near the handlebars and do power wheelies on par with LFP's Deathbike.

The the wiring harness before connecting the controller. When not packaged to my specifications it's quite easy to damage the wiring harness as it exits the axle, and that harness looks iffy. If damaged I don't envy the task. I ended up having to go the magnet wire route to get enough copper through the axle after I mangled my harness. The primary concern is keeping the 2 sets of halls separate. The phases are different, and you can figure them out after the fact from the outside quite simply. When I redid my harness I brought the 6 phases out all the same color. For the halls I made use of the shielded 6 conductor factory hall wires. I used the extra wire in each for my temp sensore and kept the factory thermistor and wire pair. Their conductors for the halls are small, but I believe the shielding pays a dividend. I'm going to try to get them to send me a roll of the stuff the next time I have motors sent here.

Sourcing a used HubMonster is great. I guess Steveo figured he'd kill himself with that kind of speed. He seems to like lower speed stuff with extreme acceleration.

John

 

[jansevr]

although i probably don't need the speed, im sure i wont be able to help going 80+ on a clear stretch of highway :lol: im mainly just looking for a motor that can handle relatively high power and speeds for a long period of time. i don't think i have to worry much about overheating this beast (especially if i add some cooling holes/fins). i may end up using two 24fet greentimes or something like that but we'll see how it runs with the stock controller when i get my swingarm built up.

i know what you're saying about the wiring...where it comes out the axle is a bit sketchy. how do you deal with this? i removed the electrical tape that was at the end of the axle and all the wires are inside of a thick nylon? casing that doesn't have any damage to it

 

[hillzofvalp]

When I first setup this motor 2000 miles ago, I probably broke 2 of the ultrathin hall wires and left me very confused for such a stupid problem. It just happened to me twice again this week when servicing the motor. Be careful when terminating them.. make sure the joints are well anchored (especially if you are soldering). Doesn't look like you have to worry with your fancy pants "6 phase" controller.

 

[jansevr]

hahah we'll see how well this controller even works. unfortunately im not sure if i will be able to use a cycle analyst with this controller? There is a connector with 4 wires marked dashboard (from the previous owner) and other than that there is only the throttle and regen connector and the power leads for the battery. all the hall/phase connectors are all wired and covered in a thick heatshrink. still haven't had time to take apart the controller...maybe on sunday

 

[John in CR]

Sure your CA will work. It's just a matter of getting in there for the correct connections. Current and speed limiting functions may or may not work depending how the throttle section is done. If you pop that controller open, I'd love to see how they linked the throttle sections, assuming it's really just 2 boards in there.