Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Hyena]

A few pics of of the commuter nearing completion. The gold headlight arrived yesterday. I only ordered 1 first to make sure they'd be OK, which it is so I'll order a second one now. Not the exact same shade of gold as the other anodized bits but meh, what are you gonna do. Still waiting on the bell t3sla

Still to do are the new brakes when they arrive, internal DC-DC converter, power switch (going to use an illuminated aluminium one in the top bar near the stem) and tidy up the controller mount and wiring.
I'm thinking of moving the CA too to sit forward of the handbars - more motorbike style. I like it sitting central like it is now but it's a tad close aesthetically. I also have some gold bolts for the battery door too but I need to grind them down a little as they're currently a tad too long and would rub on the lipo inside.



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[Rix]

Even though your commuter isn't as fast and durable as your Fighter, its still as sexy as your Fighter. What did you end up running 18s @ 30 amps?

Rick

 

[dan974]

with one beer in the hand coming from 1hr ride teh moment I watch it I said wouah ! even got the rockect tube cpa :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Cowardlyduck]

A few pics of of the commuter nearing completion.

Love it Jay. Glad you found the time to resurrect this project! It's turning out far better than any of us could have imagined I think.

Cheers

 

[remf]

Jay I'm not one for gold bling but that looks very cool. Great design, very integrated and I'll bet it goes nicely with the pack so low in the frame. Are you using that tiny controller as a rear mudguard? I guess there's nowhere else to put it. Maybe it could be gold plated too?

 

[Rix]

Jay I'm not one for gold bling but that looks very cool. Great design, very integrated and I'll bet it goes nicely with the pack so low in the frame. Are you using that tiny controller as a rear mudguard? I guess there's nowhere else to put it. Maybe it could be gold plated too?

Remf, thats what I thought...exactly.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Even though your commuter isn't as fast and durable as your Fighter, its still as sexy as your Fighter. What did you end up running 18s @ 30 amps?

Thanks buddy. Yeah running 18S and 35A currently. I also have pretty much an identical drive train set up on my blue specialized bike (another timma welding job) running 24" wheels that I'm thinking I might up the current on. It's and offroader only (like the fighter but a lighter version) so it could do with a little extra sting. I've got a spare gear set and clutch sitting here so I might see how she goes on 45A / a bit over 3kw. I think Kepler has smoked his bafangs at this level so it'll be interesting to see how mine shapes up being a slightly different design (gears are wider for a start but I think the windings or clutch will be the weak link)

Love it Jay. Glad you found the time to resurrect this project! It's turning out far better than any of us could have imagined I think

Ye of little faith
I should have sold the frame, this build is costing me a fortune! I'm scared to tally up what everything has cost. Still, it's not like I could walk into a bike shop and buy something as unique or with half the performance for that sort of money. And things like snazzy brake can always be used on other builds.

Jay I'm not one for gold bling but that looks very cool. Great design, very integrated and I'll bet it goes nicely with the pack so low in the frame. Are you using that tiny controller as a rear mudguard? I guess there's nowhere else to put it. Maybe it could be gold plated too?

Cheers mate. I'm normally not one for gold bling either and I was a bit hesitant initially when I ordered the rims but I figured if I kept all the other accessories subtle it would look OK. I think it I had gold bars, seat post, stem, cranks, pedals and brakes it'd probably look over the top. Gold pedals would probably be OK but I'm happy with the black ones for now.
I thought about trying to anodize the controller gold as well but I think it'd be better painted black to blend in rather than stick out.
And no it's not intentionally being used a mudguard! :lol: Infact that's a bad spot for the wiring come a rainy day!
I do actually have a large seatpost mounted mudguard for it so I'll have to look at how I'm going to mount that in relation to the controller.
I could make a cool custom fibreglass mudguard and build the controller and lights into for a very stealth finish but it's not worth the effort.
It's a shame, the controller JUST misses out on fitting inside the frame. Actually I probably could squeeze it in if I de-cased it but I didnt plan for that at the time of designing the frame so it's too hard to fit around the battery with the limited accessable space through the battery door. As it is it's going to require an action of contortionism to fit the DC-DC converter and power switch.

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

I could make a cool custom fibreglass mudguard and build the controller and lights into for a very stealth finish but it's not worth the effort.

..... EH ? since when did you get jaded (read, lazy) with ebike construction ?

+ I actually need mudguard ideas, so just leeching off you a bit .... haha

BTW your B&G commuter looks unreal man.

 

[Hyena]

I could make a cool custom fibreglass mudguard and build the controller and lights into for a very stealth finish but it's not worth the effort.

..... EH ? since when did you get jaded (read, lazy) with ebike construction ?

Oh I see what this is, you just called Marty Mcfly a chicken :lol:
"It's not that I'm lazy, I just that I just don't care"
Nah it's an issue of time, custom fibreglass stuff takes alot of fiddling around which is fine but I just have such limited time these days I have to prioritise how I spend it. I get around an hour a fortnight of recreational riding time these days which kinda sucks but it's also why I wanted a nice commuter as that's what I ride daily.
I've still got so many unfinished projects and things I want to do, including larger scale stuff like my own ground up built custom frame that's available for others to buy, but that's crossing over into the realm of proper job kinda stuff. Hopefully over the christmas break I can get stuck into it.

I actually need mudguard ideas, so just leaching off you a bit ....

haha a custom mudguard would probably lend itself better to your style of bike than mine.
For now, here's now I've set up my tail light.
I was going to use a DC-DC converter and my own cree red led array but decided to try home downlights and they work well. They're only rated at 3w but put out a fairly huge amount red light that's more than sufficient for a tail light.
The 12v ones obviously need to be run on around that but the AC driver module in the 110-240v version runs fine directly off my 18S pack so that simplifies things alot, I can just plug it straight into my main battery without other step down converters. Interestingly despite the driver being intended for AC they only work with the polarity around one way. When I first tested it it didnt work and I figured the voltage was too low (quoted as 85-240v) but I just happened to switch the wires around and then it did work. Curious, this hasnt been the case for other AC plug packs I've used in the past. I epoxied on the mount from an old light that died so now can easily seat post mount it and adjust the angle, and it plugs straight into the controller a few inches below. I'll paint the body of it black to make it look a little tidier.

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

I'm thinking of making a custom controller case that houses all the plugs neatly (or terminate them onto a single DB14 or similar) and also incorporate a DC-DC converter for my lighting. The 6 fet controller is tiny so I could probably mount it in a 12 fet case along with the DC-DC converter for a single neat unit

Interesting idea (thinking inside the box ?), should look pretty clean.

despite the driver being intended for AC they only work with the polarity around one way. When I first tested it it didnt work and I figured the voltage was too low (quoted as 85-240v) but I just happened to switch the wires around and then it did work. Curious, this hasnt been the case for other AC plug packs I've used in the past.

Yeah I've had a couple that only worked with one polarity, and, like you I discovered the correct way by fluke 8)

 

[Hyena]

So I decided to check out this downhill trail that full throttle recommended to me

[youtube]O46HJbbIWlA[/youtube]

 

[Architectonic]

Downhill? Looks more like freeride. :wink:

I like how you spoke Spanish after your concussion.

Here is the epic without the fail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwiWbOs12Ts

 

[Sokol]

So I decided to check out this downhill trail that full throttle recommended to me

Was not expecting the fail, but LOL'd at all 4 of them doing the same! :lol:

 

[Rix]

Even though your commuter isn't as fast and durable as your Fighter, its still as sexy as your Fighter. What did you end up running 18s @ 30 amps?

Thanks buddy. Yeah running 18S and 35A currently. I also have pretty much an identical drive train set up on my blue specialized bike (another timma welding job) running 24" wheels that I'm thinking I might up the current on. It's and offroader only (like the fighter but a lighter version) so it could do with a little extra sting. I've got a spare gear set and clutch sitting here so I might see how she goes on 45A / a bit over 3kw. I think Kepler has smoked his bafangs at this level so it'll be interesting to see how mine shapes up being a slightly different design (gears are wider for a start but I think the windings or clutch will be the weak link)

Yah, those guys over shot the shit out of that. Taco'ed the rim and probably a little sore. Spaniards in France, clearly that was their first run down the slope. I am guessing they spent the rest of the day fixing bent rims and blown fork/shock seals. Oh well, a crash you can walk away from is not a bad crash. A while back I contacted David Pearce from Phasor Cycles. He had been experimenting with oil cooling in geared hubs like Kepler did but under long term circumstances. I wanted to know what his thoughts were to see if it would be an option for Pops bike that you built in Yosemite. Here is the cut and pasted response o my questions about oil cooling geared hub motors:

I did come to the conclusion that oil cooling is effective, and effectively increases the power handling capability of the motor. The main hurdle is keeping the oil contained, either with a motor designed with this in mind, or some sort of add on seals to the existing motor which can be done.

On my purple bike, which has a cycle analyst V3 coupled with a thermistor in an overvolted BMC V4 motor, the motor is protected from overheating whether oil cooled or not through the CAV3's features, which cuts the throttle whenever the motor temperature approaches around 80*c.

But the difference was how much slower the temperature would rise and how much faster the temp would fall back down with the oil cooled setup. This was significant enough to allow the V4 to live at 83V and 50A, intermittent spirited riding.

Conversely, with the non oil cooled setup I can watch the temperature rise quickly with the same spirited riding, and the temperature falls so slowly that it doesn't really come back down in the course of a ride, so it just gradually builds to the cutoff temperature, how fast it reaches there depends on how you are riding / terrain etc. I can hit the temp cutoff after using as little as 1 Ahr of the 15 Ahr battery, and with the oil cooling it would just never hit the temp cutoff, but it was messy

Anyway since you are looking at pushing higher current through your commuter, I though I would pass along his experience with oil cooling to you.


Rick
Rick

 

[Hyena]

Was not expecting the fail, but LOL'd at all 4 of them doing the same! :lol:

haha yeah if that was a video game you'd get bonus points for a multikill - or perhaps a more apt name in this setting is a chained takedown!

oil cooling is effective, and effectively increases the power handling capability of the motor. The main hurdle is keeping the oil contained, either with a motor designed with this in mind, or some sort of add on seals to the existing motor which can be done.

Yeah, oil cooling DOES work but as stated keeping it in there is the hard part. I do have an idea for sealed internal oil bath with my cro-clone motors as per my earlier posts but for now I'm not going to risk a leaking mess.
Oh and if anything it'd be for my light(er) weight offroader (the blue specialized) that the power gets raised, the commuter is fine at 2kw. Davids temp limit of 80oC is quite conservative though so I wouldnt worry about trying to oil cool unless your temps were routinely north of 100oC. 50A at 83v is impressive, though I suspect the other components (gears and clutch) would start to give out. IIRC he has a large pile of these broken motors!
For your dad if he wants some extra sting (in bursts) I'd recommend he throws another 6 pack in series. That will give more top speed too obviously but can be limited with the 3 speed switch. And if he's not too worried about the noise, good old air cooling. Most dont do air cooling on geared motors though (I dont recall seeing anyone do it now that I think of it) as they're already a big noisier than DD hubs to start with and this gets louder once drilled out. The other side of the coin is that oil cooling actually hushes down the motors even more, so this is another added benefit.

 

[Rix]

Yah Jay, that does seem to be the trick, keeping the oil inside of the hub. Also, I have never heard of anyone air cooling a hub either. I like the oil bath cooling concept for cooling. Keeping an oil barrier between the gears and the aluminum ring gear in the hub would no doubtedly increase the gear's life as well as quiet and cool things down. My dad is very happy with you 12s system. His only reasoning for maybe going 18s would be for more distance at half throttle. But knowing him he will do some experimenting with oil cooling. If there is a way to seal up the mac good and tight, my pops will find it. BTW, after set the head tube, bottom bracket tube, and seat tube on the jig, my dad will be taking possession of my Karpiel frame and putting your kit on that. Should be super light awesome long travel ebike.

Rick

 

[pendragon8000]

Hey Jsy how's that 240v led working out? With a lick of paint it should look pretty good I imagine.
Have you thought about something similar up front?
Also where did you find that? Red down light is a bit rare.

Noticing the "fleet review" on the news in the Sydney harbor. Opertunity for some video?

 

[Hyena]

Yah Jay, that does seem to be the trick, keeping the oil inside of the hub.

Yeah, maybe you need some sort of thicker grease filled sleave or something around the axle exit to keep the oil from escaping.
I dunno, how do engines and gearboxes and other oil filled mechanical devices do it ?! We needn't be re-inventing the wheel here!

My dad is very happy with you 12s system. His only reasoning for maybe going 18s would be for more distance at half throttle.

Exactly right. Even on my commuter I only ride at 1/2 - 3/4 throttle most of the time. I could easily get by with 12S but occasionally it's nice to have that burst of higher speed when you need to mix it up with traffic on a narrow road or something. I'd certainly be very nervous riding a non powered bike in some of these situations.

BTW, after set the head tube, bottom bracket tube, and seat tube on the jig, my dad will be taking possession of my Karpiel frame and putting your kit on that. Should be super light awesome long travel ebike.

Nice, I'm looking forward to seeing it!

Hey Jsy how's that 240v led working out? With a lick of paint it should look pretty good I imagine.

I haven't mounted it to the bike yet as I have to tidy up my wiring and have it ghetto wrapped and taped around my seat post. But it came up nice with a coat of the same matt black as the bike. Should be fine.
I actually a roll of that flexible LED strip that I was going to run along my swing arm for added night time visibility but now that I'm not running a DC-DC converter at the moment it's all a bit too hard
Maybe I should get some amber ones on the under side of the down tube for underbody neon style gold lighting

Have you thought about something similar up front?

Nah I dont really like them for up front. The one ones don't throw out enough light for their physical size IMO.
Running 2x indiviual XML-T6s is much better in terms of appearance (kinda important on this bike) and also light output.

Also where did you find that? Red down light is a bit rare.

Yeah you dont see them around in shops much, and even rarer if you do is to get high output LED ones. Most are halogen or low powered LED ones using multiple smaller emitters.
I got these from that great big shop in the sky, ebay.
It'll be interesting to see how they hold up actually. I'm running a number of the warm white ones in my house but they're the 12v ones running off individual transformers (the originals fitted to the house meant to run 50w halogen downlights) I ordered a heap for my dad to use in his house but his are 240v wired so he's using the 240v version. Mine are still fine 18 months later but he said several of his blew within the first few months.

Here's a link for the cheapest ones on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3W-Gu10-High-Power-Focus-Red-Light-LED-Spot-Lamp-3x1W-/320700994084?pt=AU_Lighting_Fans&hash=item4aab44d224
They're not plug and play obviously and require a bit of soldering and what not but I think they look cool poking up from under the seat and you'd have to spend probably 20 times that price to get something that has similar light output (not that the price was the driving point)

Noticing the "fleet review" on the news in the Sydney harbor. Opertunity for some video?

Yeah I'd love to get in there and see / video it but I've got plans with the family elsewhere. Monday is a public holiday but my wife is working and trying to take the 2 boys in on my own would be a nightmare. It sounds like the city will be a mess with zillions of people so it's probably a place best avoided. Though an ebike would be the ONLY way to get around there at the moment! Maybe early next week I can duck out from work for a long lunch break and sus it out.

 

[Rix]

Yeah, maybe you need some sort of thicker grease filled sleave or something around the axle exit to keep the oil from escaping. I dunno, how do engines and gearboxes and other oil filled mechanical devices do it ?! We needn't be re-inventing the wheel here!

Engines' lower mains use seals and a series of cavities and splashers to circulate oil. But when automotive engines are in the up right positions, they will leak oil all over the place. I have seen this with car wreck and rollovers when the engine is undamaged. Having had several different hub motors apart, I think the area to focus on is the side hub shells where the contact with the hub flange when assembled. My theory here is use some high temp grade silicone and run a bead all the way around the hub flanges prior to assembly, then take it out for a few rides and get the hubbie warm and let that silicone take a set and really dry/cure. Then add the oil. I liked Keplers way of drilling a small hole through one the disk brake holes and squirting oil in that way with a syringe. Keeping the oil volume by mass at about 1/5 of the total hub mass space would probably ensure that oil would not leak to much out of the Phase Sensor wires axle groove as enertia would keep the oil away from the center when in motion. But the no matter what I can think of for sealing a hub up for oil cooling, oil is going to leak out around the axle if the bike is laid on its side for an length of time. Also, I would probably drill a really tine vent hole behind the freewheel the drive side. In the event of the blow off pressure and leaking, may just land on the chain and assist with oiling the chain.

Rick

 

[full-throttle]

So I decided to check out this downhill trail that full throttle recommended to me

[youtube]O46HJbbIWlA[/youtube]

Haha
Pinkbike appropriately tagged it as "don't ALWAYS follow your friends"

Jokes aside - this is exactly why we've spent most of last Friday's bunting up the new race track
The highlight of the entire weekend was being followed by the track builder on the last run of the day. "Special invite" only :wink: It will be hard to forget that run in the years to come.
This is what he does when not running races or building new tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csf-Qvz8nSk
Enjoy!

 

[Hyena]

Wow what an insane event! Talk about organised chaos!
I wonder if that chopper you can here buzzing overhead is there to shoot footage or airlift all the injured to hospital
A few crazy close shaves mid way through the vid then BOOM taken out at the end by that guy that went flying. The landing in the snow would be relatively soft but the actual impact of the bikes and other riders must surely do some damage!

Back on topic, my new brakes have arrived.
Check out this pr0n 8)
Shimano saint brakes with a hayes 9" disc, and of course gold rotor bolts to finish it off
Life is too short to live with shitty brakes, and it could end up even shorter if you do!



I also ordered a 9" rotor for the rear but I'm not sure I need to fit it. I'm "only" running shimano SLX on the rear and thought I'd try them with the currently fitted 7" disc and they pull up really hard. So I might just leave them as is for now.

Next up, tidying the controller wiring and drilling some holes in the frame to mount the power switch

 

[full-throttle]

gold rotor bolts to finish it off

Hope not the alloy ones. You could use 3 steel and 3 alloy staggered on the front.

The guy who crashed into Ben contacted him later on and apparently was doing 70mph and was avoiding someone else. On the impact Ben's shifter and rear derailleur was taken out.

 

[Hyena]

Hope not the alloy ones. You could use 3 steel and 3 alloy staggered on the front.

Carbon steel :wink:

The guy who crashed into Ben contacted him later on and apparently was doing 70mph and was avoiding someone else. On the impact Ben's shifter and rear derailleur was taken out.

Wow, that's really moving!! It's a wonder that he got off as lightly as he did.

Hey on an unrelated note how do you find the sizing of your 661 helmet ? I cracked my old FF one and need a replacement. I see CRC have a sale on at the moment so and was going to grab a carbon one like yours but I the comp shifted is actually the same weight if not lighter so may as well save the difference.
My head size is 56.5cm which of course is right between a small (54-56cm) and a medium (56-58) so not sure which way to go. I was thinking medium as I can always wear a beanie but I dont want to be doing that in summer, and the foam in the small will probably compress over time and losen up it it's too tight intiially....

 

[full-throttle]

I'm also in between sizes, got the medium and it's a good fit. Slightly on the loose side, but very comfy. The Bell I had before was slightly too tight.

 

[Hyena]

So you're on the small-medium side then rather than the med-large ?
That's interesting because I have a medium bell currently (supposely sized 22-23.5" so 55.9-59.7cm) and it's comfortable but if anything a tad loose. It doesn't flop around but if I grab the front I can easily wiggle it up and down and side to side. I was going to get the medium but if the sizing is consistent and your 661 is looser than your bell I probably should go for the small... Ah the fun of buying online.