Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Hyena]

I took delivery of my madass last night having never seen it prior to the purchase. It's in immaculate condition which I'm really happy about. Not only for the low 4000km that's on it but also considering it's a 2008 model so 5 years old now. There's not even any surface rust on any of the bolts or anything - aside from the slightest rub mark (not even a scuff really) on one bar end it looks like it's just rolled out of the show room.

They're bigger in the frame/tank than they look in pictures but still pretty light and compact. If I chopped a door in the frame I'd easily fit 6S lipo packs 2 wide
It was running a bit rough and gutless to my disappointment, only to find the fuel tap was still off and it was just running on fumes. haha, silly internal combustion engines

It's pretty low powered as expected with 6kw of peak fury at very best still fun to ride. I'll have to do a split screen video to compare acceleration between this and my fighter (and again split with before and after electric conversion) The front brakes are surprisingly strong, with big discs for the size of the bike and comicly huge calipers compared to the ones on my stealth that I ride and the same sort of speeds and power, but that's a good thing. It's a little over double the weight of my fighter but it's barely any heavier when riding (only when trying to move the thing around a cluttered garage).

I went to take it for a run last night and found the electric start had stopped working since I'd tested it earlier. The high also beam didnt work. No worries for the purpose of a test ride - kick start mofos 8)
I got it up to 95km/hr on the highway then backed off as it was pretty much done. Vibration under full acceleration is akin to standing on a jackhammer. haha. Nothing through the seat, just the foot pegs buzzing like crazy. They're probably bolted directly to the engine
Tis OK, serenity is just a torrent of excited electrons away

When I got home I was playing with the different controls and then the blinkers stopped working too. Bugger. So sounds like it's got some funny electrical faults which will have to be remedied before I try and get a blueslip (required for rego because it's from interstate) Fortunately I know a bloke who can probably sort out the electrics

 

[Rix]

The mad ass will be badass after the Hyena touch. Don't worry about the electric idiosyncracies. You are going to completely go through it so everything could just take a shit and it wouldn't matter.

 

[Kepler]

It was running a bit rough and gutless to my disappointment, only to find the fuel tap was still off and it was just running on fumes. haha, silly internal combustion engines

You crack me up Jay. :lol:

 

[Hyena]

So, I took the madass for its maiden voyage yesterday, through national park and to stanwell tops, a popular spot for bikes.
As I pulled into the carpark I got a few looks and as I got off another bike rider proclaimed "faaark that's naked!" :lol:



True to it's minimalistic style the bike lacks a fuel gauge and on the way home I discovered the extent of it's range. Sadly I was on a stretch of 110km/hr posted highway 15km from the nearest town when this happened :x Reviews online suggest a typical range of 150-180km from a tank. I'm guessing that's at city speeds not doing high 80s. Moments before this happened the throttle got stuck wide open too. On a more powerful bike or in traffic this could have been a real drama. On the little 'ass though and on a flat stretch of relatively safe and spacious highway this resulted in me clocking a high score of 103km/hr After a minute of fairly enthusiastic 'fiddling' with the throttle it finally released - right as the last of the fuel sputtered out. I just made it back to town and gave it a full belly of fuel. Guess how much it took ? :lol: :lol:



Silly gassers

 

[briangv99]

Guess how much it took ? :lol: :lol:

View attachment 1

Silly gassers

Was that after turning the fuel tap to reserve?

the stuck throttle might just have been the last dregs of petrol in the carb causing the motor to lean out and rev its nuts off :wink:

 

[Architectonic]

It won't be naked until you remove the engine.

 

[Hyena]

Was that after turning the fuel tap to reserve?

The fuel ran out on the main 'tank', it wasnt until after it sputtered out that I got off and switched it over to reserve. The tank capacity is 4.5l so I guess it still had a litre of reserve - but that doesn't really add up given what other people quote for range (around 150km + another 20km on reserve)
Running lean wasnt the cause, I noticed earlier that it got stuck on full throttle launches and kepts the revs up on 3rd and 4th like I was flat changing despite letting off. I'll keep an eye on it in the mean timebut it matters little when plan to 86 the ICE anyway.

It won't be naked until you remove the engine.

Indeed!
I'm leaning back towards using a direct chain drive now rather than a hub motor so I can retain the matching wheels, no issues with brakes etc. It won't be quiet as naked to the casual glance as a hub motor would be but it should still be low key.
I'm thinking I'll make a new all in one dash too with the cycle analyst in the centre and all other accessory buttons and features around it. I'm going to try for variable regen on the soon to be redundant clutch lever too. It could be as low tech as hooking the clutch cable to a 5k slider pot with a spring tensioning it back to zero - or the same thing with a magnet and hall

 

[Rix]

Indeed!
I'm leaning back towards using a direct chain drive now rather than a hub motor so I can retain the matching wheels, no issues with brakes etc

That makes alot of sense. Use an Etek motor, 48 volts, 500 amps, control speed with countershaft to rear wheel sprocket ratio, life is good.

 

[winkinatcha]

Dude, Although it hurts me to offer it up, BoostJuice's Mid Drive MAY be a suitable candidate for what you are looking for

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=49751

I have kinda been setting this aside as a candidate for a Madass- Like conversion....


Course there is still that Beast Of a midmount drive From Nechaus's group buy........

Joe

 

[boostjuice]

If Jay's still got that HPM-5000B sitting under his bed, I'd say that's what's calling to get onto his 'Ass more than anything else..

 

[winkinatcha]

+1 for Using 'Ass in above sentence

 

[Hyena]

Hey, don't you crackers be talking 'bout mah black 'ass like that :lol:

If Jay's still got that HPM-5000B sitting under his bed, I'd say that's what's calling to get onto his 'Ass more than anything else..

Correct! while that 2.5kw drive is sweet 5kw++ is what I'm looking at. Ideally pushing peaks of around 15kw for bursts of acceleration. The 10kw water cooled motor would probably be a better option but I already have this one so I'll see how it goes. The other alternative is John in CRs 7kw jobbie and twin controllers.

For now though it's this little fella

Along with this beasty of a controller. It will likely go on the underside of the seat where the exhaust sits now. Although I may move it it sit right next to the motor to keep the wiring length to a minimum. This is actually the controller that usually goes with the 10kw model (72v 500A) which might be overkill a bit considering that's 36kw peak. Wait, there's no such thing as overkill with ebikes right ?

 

[Rix]

Ooh! like where the mad ass is going direction wise.

 

[pendragon8000]

Ooh! like where the mad ass is going direction wise.

Yeah +1
So you can play with different gear ratios to get the most from that hp5000 hey? If it gets too hot in an ambitiously speedy ratio... Easy fix.
I suggest opening the hp5000 so you know what your working with bbecause I've seen a few reports of them burning out.

 

[Hyena]

Yeah ratios can be swapped fairly easily. The HPM is possibly a little underpowered for what I want but we'll see. Making a thud style 2 speed gear box is not out of the question either. If I thought the stock one would hold up I'd try and use that. I was originally planning to make a high powered offroad custom frame ebike with this motor, which is probably what it's better suited to, but we'll see how it goes. Most of the time I'll just be crusing around so it shouldn't be drawing bulk power for long.

Now, prepare to be blown away by this image. This has nothing to do with ebikes but check out this incredible retard I just saw while out having lunch.
This guy rolls into the carpark of the fine dining establishment I was at (KFC ) with his girlfriend on the back of his bike.



Thongs (flip flops for you yanks)
No shirt (let alone any sort of jacket or other protective gear)
No helmet on him or his girlfriend
Suggesting it's silly to not be wearing glasses or gloves at this point seems trivial...
But the icing on the cake is the surgical external fixation frame around his leg. Not only has this retard shattered his leg recently (presumably from crashing his bike) but he's out riding shortly after surgery when he can't even walk on it, with his girl friend on the back!

He came wobbling into the carpark and tried to park. He couldn't walk the bike backwards so his girlfriend got off and as she did he dropped the bike. Somehow she managed to catch it before it went right over. He then wobbled around for a minute or 2 trying to use his other leg before yelling something at her and them taking off again at high speed. Incredible.
Charles Darwin must be looking down and cheering them on like a gambler track side at a horse race

How's that for job security for the local police Rix!

 

[boostjuice]

The 10kw water cooled motor would probably be a better option but I already have this one so I'll see how it goes.

Jay, the design of the water cooled version of these motors is flawed for both the 5kW and 10kW versions (massive design fail). The fluid labyrinth is a separate 'container' bolted to the aluminum backing plate which itself is sandwiched between this and the stator steel. So the heat draw out of the coils is near non-existent. As if the heat path between the stator steel and the coolant wasn't bad enough, there is also thick nomex insulation paper between the coils and the stator teeth, so in the end fark-all heat will transfer from coils > thick nomex paper > stator steel > aluminum casing > fluid jacket casing > coolant.

The best way to raise the continuous power capability out of these motors is to flow air though the guts of them, specifically over the end-turns and the rotor magnets (the component with the lowest temperature rating). With a bit of custom work, this can be done (even though I used a mill, you could do this with hand tools albeit less neatly).

 

[winkinatcha]

Ahh Boostjuice, your stuff is like electro-mechanical porn (or "art") ... Kinda glad I'm a hanging on to the Cyclone/gearbox awesomeness

Joe

 

[deffx]

But the icing on the cake is the surgical external fixation frame around his leg.

Incredible! Not young either, and a hot chick to scar up

I guess he just wanted to get back on the bike, i'm atgatt and i find i can ride much better with the gear on than not

Even on my ebike i wear a stack hat and gloves and mtb shoes 100% of the time, Its a ritual for me to gear up

Why the frock would you ride a road bike in thongs, and a surgical leg brace lmao, amazing, when you fall off and the bike lands on your foot and drags you down the road on said foot destroying up to 26 bones and what ever the leg brace is fixing lmao2

Boots are my big thing to wear on the motorbikes

sorry just ranting, hate squids especially with chicks

 

[AussieJester]

I'm sure lfp would say he's living his life to the fullest yup, each to their own....been there done that have scares to prove it, ain't all it's cracked up to be 12 months in hospital because I frocked up living life to the fullest, wasnt worth it... :: wheels of for a swim::

KiM

 

[Rix]

Ahh Boostjuice, your stuff is like electro-mechanical porn (or "art") ... Kinda glad I'm a hanging on to the Cyclone/gearbox awesomeness

Joe

+1 Damn!, that is PFM or more commonly known at pure fuqn magic.

Charles Darwin must be looking down and cheering them on like a gambler track side at a horse race

How's that for job security for the local police Rix!

No shit, this guy apparently hasn't learned his lesson with the arm bandage and leg cage. Probably acquired those from a prior crash. Yes indeed job security.

 

[Hyena]

Jay, the design of the water cooled version of these motors is flawed for both the 5kW and 10kW versions (massive design fail).

Thanks for the info mate. The air cooling you suggest looks similar to what I do with my hubs, with the added benefit of there not being an axle on one side so you can affix a blower as you have done. I take it you can feel noticably hot air coming out of the outer holes ?
Have you got any more info on your build ? Got a link to a thread ? Looks pretty snazzy.

As for not having a mill, I achieve pretty neat looking results for round holes using a step drill. It's not that obvious from this pic but it gives a nice chamfered lip around the outside of the hole which is aesthetically pleasing and if you want to really talk crap you can say it improves air flow :lol:

I'm sure lfp would say he's living his life to the fullest yup, each to their own....been there done that have scares to prove it, ain't all it's cracked up to be 12 months in hospital because I frocked up living life to the fullest, wasnt worth it...

Yeah there's living life to the fullest and pushing the limit and then there's that.
I've ridden my bike along the beach and on farms in similar protective attire to this fine gentleman, but not a motorbike at speed, on the road with traffic, with non-functioning limbs, and someone else on the back. I frequently see people riding around in tshirt and shorts and yeah if you come a cropper you're going to be missing that skin and meat off your bones, but atleast in a helmet you'll probably live to regret it.
That reminds me, I really have to dig up that old footage of me falling off a postie bike for you to get some extreme giggles at. My protective gear consisted of gloves and a cowboy hat and I was probably doing all of 30km/hr when I hit the grass but that little incident screwed my wrist for life.

BTW I'm pretty sure those rocket scientists pictured above are junkies. They just had that look about them and it would explain alot...

 

[Samd]

I take it you can feel noticably hot air coming out of the outer holes ?

So you'd have hot air blowing out the holes in your 'Ass then Jay?

 

[Hyena]

Pretty much, unless things get too hot, and then I'd be blowing smoke out my 'ass.
Of course I have to be careful with the design of the holes, I don't want them to be too big and end up getting mud and dirt in there. No one likes a dirty 'ass.

 

[boostjuice]

Jay, the design of the water cooled version of these motors is flawed for both the 5kW and 10kW versions (massive design fail).

Thanks for the info mate. The air cooling you suggest looks similar to what I do with my hubs, with the added benefit of there not being an axle on one side so you can affix a blower as you have done. I take it you can feel noticeably hot air coming out of the outer holes ?
Have you got any more info on your build ? Got a link to a thread ? Looks pretty snazzy.

As for not having a mill, I achieve pretty neat looking results for round holes using a step drill. It's not that obvious from this pic but it gives a nice chamfered lip around the outside of the hole which is aesthetically pleasing and if you want to really talk crap you can say it improves air flow :lol:

We'll get your Black 'ass pimped out with plenty of thrust yet!

I haven't had the motor going full-tilt under load yet, but I've done some bench air flow tests. Surprisingly I was able to get higher flow pressures from an 80mm dia, steep-angle/deep bladed, 3-blade, Axial fan exerting positive pressure rather than the blower fan pictured using negative pressure, however I settled on the blower because of the smaller thickness which allows narrower lateral packaging. In the end, both fans have very effective flow rates that will convert these standard motors from being stagnant-air oven-kilns into much more reliable and higher-duty workhorses.

No build thread sorry. Maintaining one takes away from the little time I have to actually work on the project. I'll post up some stats/pics/vid's when it's proven itself as a reliable rig though. That's 6 months away at the moment whilst I accumulate the battery funds needed to finish it off.

Step/straight flute drill's are great I agree. I use them more than twist drills as they don't catch the job and pull it up. Chamfering is much easier to get looking nice. I damn near lost a finger on a drill press with a twist drill, so I avoid them wherever I can.

 

[Hyena]

We'll get your Black 'ass pimped out with plenty of thrust yet!

Egad, what have I started :lol:
I don't mind if you guys want to admire my 'ass but I don't like the idea of anyone interfering with it. And before anyone gets any ideas, no one is going to be riding my 'ass

I haven't had the motor going full-tilt under load yet, but I've done some bench air flow tests. Surprisingly I was able to get higher flow pressures from an 80mm dia, steep-angle/deep bladed, 3-blade, Axial fan exerting positive pressure rather than the blower fan pictured using negative pressure, however I settled on the blower because of the smaller thickness which allows narrower lateral packaging. In the end, both fans have very effective flow rates that will convert these standard motors from being stagnant-air oven-kilns into much more reliable and higher-duty workhorses.

Sounds reasonable, I'll probably go down the same route although on an emoto build I have a bit more flexibility for shit hanging off it left right and centre

I'll post up some stats/pics/vid's when it's proven itself as a reliable rig though. That's 6 months away at the moment whilst I accumulate the battery funds needed to finish it off.

Don't we all know that story! Is yours a high powered e-bicycle shaped object or e-moto ? I look forward to hearing more about it.

Step/straight flute drill's are great I agree. I use them more than twist drills as they don't catch the job and pull it up. Chamfering is much easier to get looking nice. I damn near lost a finger on a drill press with a twist drill, so I avoid them wherever I can.

I nearly did the same drilling hand held with a battery drill - the bloody aluminium side cover grabbed the drill bit, it snapped and the remaining stub very nearly went through the back of my hand.
I realised I forgot to attach the pic before but I guess you knew what I was talking about. This is the sort of thing anyway.



And speaking of buying more stuff for projects you havent got time to finish, I've just added a few new high powered motors to my test pile