Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Hyena]

Is it wrong of me to see that picture and instead of thinking of what those bikes are like as they are, I think of which pieces of them I could use to build another (few) crazy contraption(s)?

For the average person, for you it's somewhat expected
You should see my parts pile - you could STILL make a crazy contraption and have a fleet of nice bikes.

no trike...
no fat bike....
no stealthy commuter...
tell your wife there's a way to go yet!

No trike, guilty as charged. I DO have 2x 20" HS3540s new in the boxes with tyres ready to go for such a project but it never got off the ground
No fat bike, true, though I do have a bunch of parts to build one (including the last of the 5403s laced into a 3" cruiser rim and a matching 3" front rim)
As for the stealthy commuter, that's the black bike on the far left, though the stealthyness was offset with gold bling.

Where's the Recumbent?

I have enough trouble not breaking bones as it is

I find it funny the Raptor looks 'bigger' than the ICE dirt bike, and the dirt bike and Fighter have the gnarliest tires of the lot.

Yeah the raptor still has slick tyres from the race day. I have some knobbies to throw on it soon.
Also the dirt bike is a little 140cc pit bike so it's quite small as far as dirt bikes go - hence why the raptor looks big next to it. Though it's a similar size to the madass I suppose, which admittedly is also pretty small.

If you had to rank them (and I know they are all different) which order would you put them in?

Wow that's a hard one and they all have different qualities.
I guess the raptor is my favourite - it's the most powerful by far but not so big and heavy as to be cumbersome (like I find the stealth bomber to be). I rode it to the city and back on friday, 60km return. I had a non functioning chain (still haven't sorted the derailleur so it was 100% ghost pedalling) and I used dead on 10ah for the whole trip. It worked out at 14.7 whr/km without pedaling a single stroke. That's pretty bloody impressive economy for something that can suck your eye balls out the back of your head at the flick of a button.

In second place it's a toss up between the black commuter and the blue specialized. Both are cut and shut welded frame by timma2500 (before SamD took over the reins on doing such things)
The black one is blinged out obviously with carbon this and that and the gold bits, trials rims and sweet saint brakes on 9" rotors. It's running 2000w through a geared motor which has it skipping along along quite well and gives it enough power to tackle anything vaguely bicyclish. The bling makes it stand out but it's otherwise a fairly stealthy frame, which was my intention of course. I was actually going to get Paul to make me up a batch of these to start building turn key bikes but it all fell through.
The blue specialized is running essentially the same drive train, 2000w geared motor but with a 24" wheel set and a slower wind motor. As such it's got a bit more poke down low and with the softer downhill type suspension set up of the original specialized bike it makes a much more capable offroader that's powerful enough for all but the steepest hills. It's also quite light and very nimble and agile on the single track especially with the single crown forks. It's a great 'go anywhere' bike for exploring new places where you have to maneuver though tight stuff or lift it over fences or up rocky outcroppings that are too high to ride up and where the other bikes are to heavy to lug.

I guess that leaves the stealth fighter last on the list for the ebikes. This might surprise some but it stock form it just doesn't do anything particularly well. Well, that's probably not a fair thing to say, it does look cool and many would kill for one but I find it a tad too bulky and heavy to view with a mountain bike mind set, and if you're going to ride a light electric dirt bike then 3kw doesnt cut it. I can see why kepler put a geared motor and single crown forks on his - that's essentially what the blue specialized is and it's light and nimble and the nearest thing to having mountain bike like handling.

That said, if you told me I had to get ride of all my bikes and only keep one, I'd probably pick the fighter! Not in stock form, but with an adaptto, 21S 12.5-15ah battery and H4065 you'd have pretty much the perfect all rounder.

As for the remaining 2 bikes, I have zero use for the pit bike and haven't ridden it in probably 4 years. I only still have it because I might one day convert it, and because it was my first motorbike and is worth next to nothing to sell I'm vaguely attached to it.

The madass is a cool little bike and fun for zipping up to the shops or around the local or city areas. I really should find the time to fix the burnt out wiring and get it going, but what I should do even more is get off my tail and get it converted to electric!

 

[Hyena]

Hey, nice collection Jay.
It seems impossible to keep up with your e-garage.....

Thanks mate. I'm actually looking to clear out a few to make way for new projects, which answers part of your question.
I have little practical use for one but part of me still wants to build a cruiser. And I really want to build something steampunk style, so considering the cruiser wouldn't be hugely practical anyway that'd be pretty cool.

If the black and gold one on the left is truly a commuter, then it surely must need some mudguards, for a comfortable commute in all conditions.

Right you are, it actually fell over in the garage a few months back and broke off the front mudguard.
Here's an earlier photo of it in commuter dress

The blue bike on the far right is completely unfamiliar to me, even tho I try to keep up. Looks like something SamD might have come up with ?

Made by timma2500. It was originally a specialized fsr. This was not designed by me but done around the same time as he did the black one for me.
Here's a few recent-ish shots of it
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10382550_631028330317786_650525702788351618_o.jpg
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10265466_631025716984714_6536400599846187547_o.jpg

Are U actually going to sell any ?

As above, yeah I probably will. Infact I'm open to selling just about all of them except the raptor. Well, I suppose I would sell even that too if someone came along and didnt want to build their own, but I'd just go and replace it with another one.
The stealth I'll probably hot up and sell pre-modded. The others can go either as they are or the black commuter I'll sell as just the frame and shock and keep the other bits off it.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Awesome stuff Jay. I can't fault your logic there...even if the Fighter came in last. But I definitely agree with it being the clear winner if/when kitted out properly. In stock form the Stealth's are only good for those new to E-bikes, or not after much punch.
I've got similar Fighter plans to yourself. Although just going with the MiniE and a high capacity 18650 pack for long range once the current LiPo dies.

Cheers

 

[Allex]

Jay, I am surprised that you find Bomber more bulky than Raptor. By the photos the raptor seems to have a bigger belly and is 140mm wide vs 125mm on Bomber.
Ducky not sure if you would be satisfied with a mini-E going from a 18 FET at 80 Amps unless you plan on having similar performance. Well, the top speed would be a bit more and total power a tad more. But do not expect WOW feelings.

 

[Rix]

Nice collection and write up Jay. Not surprised by your rankings. Your explanations are based on the specific intended purposes of each machine. You have two custom light weight pedal friend geared options for commuting, big powerful raptor for moto options, then the Fighter. And you nailed it, if only one ebike was allowed, the Fighter would be it for me as well. As you pointed out, it can be built like Kepler did as a more friendly pedal commuter machine, or it can be set up for riding moto type terrain fast. That's a hard combo to have in the same chassis.

Jay, I am surprised that you find Bomber more bulky than Raptor.

I am with Allex on this, even the Raptor 140 is about 3/4 of an inch (20mm) wider than the Bomber. And the Bombers battery cavity isn't as tall and bulking from top to bottom as the Raptors is. What do you think it is that makes the Bomber feel more bulky than the Raptor?

 

[Hyena]

Ducky not sure if you would be satisfied with a mini-E going from a 18 FET at 80 Amps unless you plan on having similar performance. Well, the top speed would be a bit more and total power a tad more. But do not expect WOW feelings.

I'm still yet to fire up my mini-e but it'll be interesting to see. I suspect on close to 100v with a TC65 or H4065 it'd be a pretty nice performance package. What phase current do they do again ? I suspect that's what is giving my raptor the brutal torque with my sabvoton. I have one of the modes in my CA limited to 5kw and it pulls like a freight train. Even limited to 3kw it utterly hoses my stock fighter which peaks at over 3500w. If I can get the same torque from the adaptto mini at 5kw as I do from my sabvoton at 5kw I'll be bloody impressed. BUT, even though the CA is limiting battery current to ~35A I suspect the controller is doing it's black magic phase current multiplication given it's still programmed for 350 phase amps.

I am with Allex on this, even the Raptor 140 is about 3/4 of an inch (20mm) wider than the Bomber. And the Bombers battery cavity isn't as tall and bulking from top to bottom as the Raptors is. What do you think it is that makes the Bomber feel more bulky than the Raptor?

Maybe bulky wasn't the best term. Yes the overall width of the raptor IS a little wider, though not to the point where it's an issue to ride or pedal. I smashed my knees on the fighter many a time on the single track in near falling events. I actually like the extra width of the raptor, it's not wide enough to be uncomfortable to pedal (like the 160 was) but it IS wide enough to grip with you knees moto style if you're leaning into corners and what not. The bomber just feels heavy in general, with the big (relatively) heavy battery, vboxx and probably most significantly the 540x motor. The weight is quite noticeable in the handing too, even on the street I could feel the extra weight in the 54 motor over the TC. Leaning into a corner at around 50km/hr it almost felt like I was towing a trailer, or the sort of pull you feel from having something heavy on a rear rack (though obviously the weight is down lower) You wouldn't think the difference of a few kg would be that perceivable, but it is. For a bloke on the smaller side like me manoeuvring it can be a little tough too. Lose your balance and it's a lot of weight to catch, or flipping it up onto the back wheel to walk through a narrow gate (or try and lift under a horizontal pole/gate) is a struggle. I often find myself exploring new areas and tracks that turn out to be probably animal made as it quickly becomes less obvious where the track is then the next minute you're in thick scrub - turning around in thick stuff like this can be a bit tougher with a heavier bike (and certainly the reduced turning circle with triple clamp forks dont help) I know that sounds trivial and nit picking, but they're the sort of things that come to mind.

I'll give sigmacom a shout and get him to add his independent 2c worth. He owns a bomber and has ridden my raptor both on the street and on a trail ride recently we swapped bikes for a bit.
The bomber in my mind IS an electric motorbike and it rides like one. The raptor, atleast mine, despite having double the power to put it into the proper dirt bike league somehow still feels more bicycle-ish to ride. I can only put it down to the weight (and/or distribution of weight) as they're otherwise both very similar machines.

 

[Allex]

Mini can do 180 with the locked firmware. I guess it will be pretty tame from the start with the default settings compared with the huge Sabvoton on 350 Phase Amps. You might need to adsjust the throttle curves on the mini to get it behave a bit wilder from dead stop.
I will soon get mxus3k, 5 and 4 turn. It will be interesting to swap my 15kgs 5403 for a 10kgs back wheel!

No wonder we have pinch flats:

 

[Rix]

[quotemost significantly the 540x motor. The weight is quite noticeable in the handing too, even on the street I could feel the extra weight in the 54 motor over the TC. Leaning into a corner at around 50km/hr it almost felt like I was towing a trailer, or the sort of pull you feel from having something heavy on a rear rack (though obviously the weight is down lower) You wouldn't think the difference of a few kg would be that perceivable, but it is. For a bloke on the smaller side like me manoeuvring it can be a little tough too. Lose your balance and it's a lot of weight to catch, or flipping it up onto the back wheel to walk through a narrow gate (or try and lift under a horizontal pole/gate) is a struggle.][/quote]

Jay, I think you nailed it with the 54xx motor. When I briefly ran my 5403 on the Fighter, it felt slower at handling. What I think is going on is that extra 9.5 pounds or so of mass spinning creates kind of a gyro scope effect, causing handling to feel slower. Even though that motor is way way durable and can handle way more than 5 kw, I didn't like the way it changed the Fighters handling. I am really looking forward to getting a TC4080 with the regular spoke flange. According to Cylte, it weighs a little less than their TC80 which puts it closer to the 40XX in terms of overall weight. The 40XX weighing about 8.4kg, vs 9.3kg for the TC40XX vs 9.9kg for the TCXX vs 13.kg for the 54xx. Based on my findings between the 4080 and 5403 on the back of my Fighter, I believe the single biggest improvement that can be made to the Bomber (next to correct suspension set up) is getting a lighter hub motor on it. I am trying to talk my dad into letting me put a TC4065 on his Bomber down the road, but he doesn't want to change a thing. Just as well as I shit out 9k for a new roof on the house and am broke for a while. That really cut into my ebike fund. Allex is got the right idea, I can't wait for his ride report with the MXUS 3000, 4 wind motor findings and report.

 

[Sigmacom]

I'll give sigmacom a shout and get him to add his independent 2c worth. He owns a bomber and has ridden my raptor both on the street and on a trail ride recently we swapped bikes for a bit.
The bomber in my mind IS an electric motorbike and it rides like one. The raptor, atleast mine, despite having double the power to put it into the proper dirt bike league somehow still feels more bicycle-ish to ride. I can only put it down to the weight (and/or distribution of weight) as they're otherwise both very similar machines.

Firstly I should say that I am still a relative newbie to ebikes having only been riding now for 2 years, and before that I had zero mountain or dirt bike experience.

I rode Jay's Raptor the other day off road and the thing has unbelievable power and acceleration! As you said Jay in a previous post, 10kW+ is simply more power than you can ever use off road. The bike feels like it is going to tear away from under you. My Bomber in comparison does weigh a ton (58kg) though to be fair it does have a 2.7kWhr battery installed. What does a stock Bomber weigh these days ? Although my battery is heavier, my TC65 hub is lighter than stock 54xx, but I do have a heavy rear rim and tyre on at the moment. Had the Raptor 140 been available when I bought the Bomber 2nd hand I would have gone for that. I agree the Raptor is a better option all-round now. Although I like the VBoxx on the Bomber I don't think its weight and potential issues with a proprietary product are worth the slight gain over a Schlumpf setup. But given the work and effort I have put into the Bomber you wont catch me changing any time soon

Jay that 10Ah return to the city sounds impossible! Remember we discussed that there might be some issue with your CA calibration the other day? Running your 2.5kW CA limit did not feel like 2.5kW...

I have a lead on a potential local dyno tester that I'm following up. Will let you know if anything eventuates.

 

[Allex]

Jay, Sigmacom: how is the Popular DNM forks compared to Sigmacoms WB and RST super on The fighter?
That would be really interesting to read about.

 

[Hyena]

When I briefly ran my 5403 on the Fighter, it felt slower at handling. What I think is going on is that extra 9.5 pounds or so of mass spinning creates kind of a gyro scope effect, causing handling to feel slower

Yep I think that's definitely a consideration. And infact the whole weight issue that I have with heavier bikes like this could actually be likened to a gyroscopic type effect. Even held a spinning wheel by the axle in your hand ? No problem when straight, but lean it over and suddenly the gyroscopic effect makes it feel much heavier and wanting to pull away from you. That's how'd I relate the difference in the bomber, all fine and dandy when riding along straight but lean it and you feel the extra weight. Rix you'll probably remember my near crash in Yosemite on your bomber when popping a wheelie, it leaned over on me with the wheel off the ground and it was a REAL struggle to recover (much more so than my fighter which I was used to riding at the time)

Bummer about your roof. You quite literally had to put 'a roof over your head' above your hobby :lol:

Jay that 10Ah return to the city sounds impossible! Remember we discussed that there might be some issue with your CA calibration the other day? Running your 2.5kW CA limit did not feel like 2.5kW...

Yeah it's a possibility, though I suspect the extra torque we're feeling is the phase current as mentioned above. Still, controller voodoo aside there's no free lunch is there!
The distance is certainly spot on, I paid particular attention as I passed work. The economy is not completely impossible but certainly better than expected. I guess the weight of the bigger motor aside it has much less losses to heat when sipping away pulling 1000w or less.

I have a lead on a potential local dyno tester that I'm following up. Will let you know if anything eventuates.

Cool, I'd be quite interested in that. More than peak rear wheel kw bragging rights I'm more interested in exactly how much CA quoted power translates to power at the ground. I assume you're talking motorcycle dynos ? They may not be set up to accurately go down to 200w (or even turn the rollers at that level) but I'd like to be able to program a true, legal 200w power mode that is dyno verified. I (and anyone else) could then ride on the road with complete confidence they're totally legal. Although the new 250w continuous ruling is more generous in terms of peak power (it could be 2000w peak to get you up a hill but only 250w "continuous" - ie on the flat for normal riding) the PAS requirement is a pain for offroading and 25km/hr top speed limit is crap. Although a true 200w would barely pull the skin off a custard atleast it will offer pedal assistance over 30km/hr which would be greatly welcomed by commuters.

Alex, the DNMs feel nicer than the RST on my 2013 fighter and they'd be a great bang for buck upgrade for anyone looking for a better front fork. Rix has previously commented that the newer RSTs like on his 2014 fighter are significantly improved to the point where he wouldn't bother upgrading them so that's good feedback. The RSTs and the WB are the same upside down design so feel similar to ride. It's hard to make a convincing argument to compare the 2 without dialing them in to have as close as possible to the same settings but I'd say from a general ride they're quite comparable and neither stood out as having bad traits or handling. Sigmacom, care to comment on any differences you noted? If I was building a bike from scratch I certainly wouldn't pay a significant amount more for the WB's, which I think would be the case.

 

[Rix]

When I briefly ran my 5403 on the Fighter, it felt slower at handling. What I think is going on is that extra 9.5 pounds or so of mass spinning creates kind of a gyro scope effect, causing handling to feel slower

Yep I think that's definitely a consideration. And infact the whole weight issue that I have with heavier bikes like this could actually be likened to a gyroscopic type effect. Even held a spinning wheel by the axle in your hand ? No problem when straight, but lean it over and suddenly the gyroscopic effect makes it feel much heavier and wanting to pull away from you. That's how'd I relate the difference in the bomber, all fine and dandy when riding along straight but lean it and you feel the extra weight. Rix you'll probably remember my near crash in Yosemite on your bomber when popping a wheelie, it leaned over on me with the wheel off the ground and it was a REAL struggle to recover (much more so than my fighter which I was used to riding at the time)

Bummer about your roof. You quite literally had to put 'a roof over your head' above your hobby :lol:

Alex, the DNMs feel nicer than the RST on my 2013 fighter and they'd be a great bang for buck upgrade for anyone looking for a better front fork. Rix has previously commented that the newer RSTs like on his 2014 fighter are significantly improved to the point where he wouldn't bother upgrading them so that's good feedback. The RSTs and the WB are the same upside down design so feel similar to ride. It's hard to make a convincing argument to compare the 2 without dialing them in to have as close as possible to the same settings but I'd say from a general ride they're quite comparable and neither stood out as having bad traits or handling. Sigmacom, care to comment on any differences you noted? If I was building a bike from scratch I certainly wouldn't pay a significant amount more for the WB's, which I think would be the case.

Yes, I remember the wheelie that was quasi stacked into the line of bushes and trees, great save on your part I might add. Yah the roof is a bumber, it kills me to spend that kind of money when I could spend it on ebike shit. Oh well, I guess I need a place to live and work my Fighter. I love my RSTs, but I think I got a fluke set. I have talked via PM with others, there is just no way I am finding that my fork is great and others find that they suck, especially when all the people I am talking shop with have extensive MTB and moto back grounds. In a PM Emmett described his Fighters' fork problems to me which I found were identical to the one on my old Bomber, which was shit. Got to be some QC production issues from RST. I got a feeling that my Fighter will be getting a face lift soon. Just that damn roof set me back. :x

 

[Obiwan007]

So Jay, what's the final word on those brakes? How does the e-brake switch work? I think you said it was a seperate in-line hydro switch right? Any word if the switch will be available seperate from the brakes?

 

[Hyena]

I haven't had a chance to even fit my maguras yet, I've been flat out and my own builds have been neglected.
I can confirm that it is an inline switch though, a T piece that has the switch wiring coming out the middle.

Sigmacom, Re: what you were saying about my current / AH readings being possibly whack, I checked the CA after the last long ride (city return + sight seeing around the city ~80km) and I'd used 16ah (20ah capacity). The voltage was starting to dip down a little but it still had a bit left which all seems pretty consistent. So if it IS under-reading, it's not by much. Based on these figures are most it could only be out by 10%, which still yields impressive economy

 

[Hyena]

I caught up with Sigmacom on the weekend for some ebike shenanigans and R&D time. I borrowed his mates scope and strapped it all up on the raptor for some on road testing and tuning with some steep hill climbs and fixed power limit testing. Got some good data and dialed my CA in perfectly. It was overreading by only 2.5% at ~10A but up to 10% out at 100A. I have it reading spot on now at constant 2 and 3kw loads and figure that's probably a good realistic middle ground to aim for for maximum accuracy. Next step, onto the dyno to measure how much power it's putting to the ground and to tune it for a legit 200/250w maximum (because I'm all about doing the right thing by the law )
I have a bit of video too if anyone is interested ?

View attachment 1

 

[Rix]

tune it for a legit 200/250w maximum (because I'm all about doing the right thing by the law )
I have a bit of video too if anyone is interested ?

Jay, hi powered ebikes that can be pedaled is about illusion of legal compliance, but lets not be self delusional. You could give a shit about the doing right by law for the sake of the law. :lol: Got some ocean front property in Nevada I will sell you for a good deal. Now that I got that out of the way, hell yes we would like to see some vidoe. Don't keep it from us.

 

[cjh]

As it a 250W maximum continuous rating and not a peak rating, how will you do this? I don't even how the authorities measure this? Do they just rely on the sticker, etc.? The 25kmh limit is easy enough to set.

 

[zener]

As it a 250W maximum continuous rating and not a peak rating, how will you do this? I don't even how the authorities measure this? Do they just rely on the sticker, etc.? The 25kmh limit is easy enough to set.

waooooww 25000 miles the hour :lol:

 

[Hyena]

Jay, hi powered ebikes that can be pedaled is about illusion of legal compliance, but lets not be self delusional. You could give a shit about the doing right by law for the sake of the law. :lol:

haha, no I want to have a genuine 200/250w governor on the bike so if some nazi is having a bad day and decides to confiscate someone's bike and dyno it (remember it happened to Ken) then it's all totally legit. What mode and how people chose to ride their bike is up to them, I'm just being a responsible ebike builder

As it a 250W maximum continuous rating and not a peak rating, how will you do this? I don't even how the authorities measure this? Do they just rely on the sticker, etc.? The 25kmh limit is easy enough to set.

Big rooster motor company stickers are a good backup
The issue is there's 2 sets of rules in play, the old 200w max and the 250w continuous.
Both have good an bad points which have been stated over and over elsewhere.
But in short, the old 200w rules stipulate no throttle or speed restriction. If you can manage to get a 200w motor to propel you to 40km/hr then good on you. The 250w rules while more vague and arguably more generous in peak power output limit speed to 25km/hr and pedal assist activated only. This sucks a fair quantity of balls IMO as you could have a bike that just starts to pull away nicely then suddenly cuts out 2 seconds later once you hit 25.
What I really want to see is how much power 200 and 250w is at the rollers vs what we see on the CA screen. Obviously what we're measuring and quoting when we talk about power levels is what comes out of the battery but that doesn't make it to the ground. At best our motors are around 80% efficient plus other drivetrain losses. I expect that a true 200w to the ground will read around 400w on the CA. The other consideration for the 250w euro rules is to look at how much dyno measured power is required to maintain 25km/hr on a flat surface - this is the "continuous power rating" target we should be aiming to meet, at least that's how I see it.

 

[cjh]

Big rooster motor company stickers are a good backup
The issue is there's 2 sets of rules in play, the old 200w max and the 250w continuous.
Both have good an bad points which have been stated over and over elsewhere.
But in short, the old 200w rules stipulate no throttle or speed restriction. If you can manage to get a 200w motor to propel you to 40km/hr then good on you. The 250w rules while more vague and arguably more generous in peak power output limit speed to 25km/hr and pedal assist activated only. This sucks a fair quantity of balls IMO as you could have a bike that just starts to pull away nicely then suddenly cuts out 2 seconds later once you hit 25.
What I really want to see is how much power 200 and 250w is at the rollers vs what we see on the CA screen. Obviously what we're measuring and quoting when we talk about power levels is what comes out of the battery but that doesn't make it to the ground. At best our motors are around 80% efficient plus other drivetrain losses. I expect that a true 200w to the ground will read around 400w on the CA. The other consideration for the 250w euro rules is to look at how much dyno measured power is required to maintain 25km/hr on a flat surface - this is the "continuous power rating" target we should be aiming to meet, at least that's how I see it.

I will be watching your results with great interest as I have been wondering what a 200W motor can really do. Not allowing throttle only use and limiting the speed to 25km/h for the 250W motors really does suck.

 

[TheBeastie]

As it a 250W maximum continuous rating and not a peak rating, how will you do this? I don't even how the authorities measure this? Do they just rely on the sticker, etc.? The 25kmh limit is easy enough to set.

Here is a link to the thread when es members pendragon8000 super ebike was confiscated by the cops after he let some one test ride it and fell off hurting him self. The cops got some one to professionally dyno test it to see its power/performance output.
I guess he was like " " far from being powered drived him self but luckily the bike was in 250watt mode.
Go back a few messages back to find the start of the issue which came back with all issues resolved.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47452&p=873490#p873490

 

[pendragon8000]

As it a 250W maximum continuous rating and not a peak rating, how will you do this? I don't even how the authorities measure this? Do they just rely on the sticker, etc.? The 25kmh limit is easy enough to set.

Here is a link to the thread when es members pendragon8000 super ebike was confiscated by the cops after he let some one test ride it and fell off hurting him self. The cops got some one to professionally dyno test it to see its power/performance output.
I guess he was like " " far from being powered drived him self but luckily the bike was in 250watt mode.
Go back a few messages back to find the start of the issue which came back with all issues resolved.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47452&p=873490#p873490

Yeah i wish i got a photo of the bike in the paty wagon / divi van or what ever you call a perpertrator lockup vehicle where you come from... was quite odd. and the young cops were saying "this is why we need utes" ie utility vehicles. that was funny, must have been a country/bush kid or something.

anyway... 200watt etc. the thing is it uses about 100 - 200watts just to spin the wheel freely when getting up toward 100kph so on the rollers it would need to tax a small amount of energy and hopefully reduce the wheel speed to what you might get when you run the bike in the power level it says on the ca.. eg if you normally get 30kph at 250watt then you would want the rollers to tax the wheel down to 30kph when set to that limit so you know how much power is being put out at the wheel when its trying to limit the power to 250 at that speed. i think the efficiency curve would have a huge effect on the power output at different speeds. eg if it taxed it down to 10kph then the output might be like 50watt while the ca says 250watt .. etc.

Jay, scope occy strapped to raptor = SOME SERIOUS NEXT LEVEL SHIT!

 

[Hyena]

Not allowing throttle only use and limiting the speed to 25km/h for the 250W motors really does suck.

True dat, I programmed the CA to an "approximately legal" 350w (battery wattage) and it wouldnt even pull up my driveway, and that was with a slow wind cromotor so what hope have you got.

Ken, do you remember what CA battery wattage limit you were running when the po-po took your bike in for testing ?

Here's the video, nothing too exciting and unfortunately you couldn't make out the scope screen with the real time stuff while riding. Trying to read it while riding was a bit sketchy too. haha

[youtube]5f02uQ1T0aI[/youtube]

 

[Rix]

haha, no I want to have a genuine 200/250w governor on the bike so if some nazi is having a bad day and decides to confiscate someone's bike and dyno it (remember it happened to Ken) then it's all totally legit. What mode and how people chose to ride their bike is up to them, I'm just being a responsible ebike builder

Yah, I do remember that now. Just seems funny that you, the king of pedal ebike HP, are considering legal parameters when your websites states "

We are no longer advertising street legal 200w kits and basic accessories as these are commonly available elsewhere and our dedicated focus is high performance.

I guess this is part of the evolution of your builds. Great tech vid, nice burnout. Thank you for posting it. I was hoping for some 3rd person 12kw shots, I know at some point you will get them, as that's the Hyena way.

 

[Hyena]

Just seems funny that you, the king of pedal ebike HP, are considering legal parameters

What can I say, I like to please everybody
Or maybe I should change the name to Hypocrity Ebikes :lol:
But yeah, as you know it's great to have an allrounder ebike - to duck up to the shops or to ride around for what ever reason other than strictly offroad. Raptors, stealths etc stick out like a sore thumb but if you can make it a truely 'go anywhere' bike that you can ride in public with confidence that you're not breaking any laws (however trivial) then that's win win all around.

when your websites states "

We are no longer advertising street legal 200w kits and basic accessories as these are commonly available elsewhere and our dedicated focus is high performance.

I guess this is part of the evolution of your builds.
Ah, I forgot I have a website :lol:
4 years since an update, it will be getting revamped over the xmas holidays to better reflect what I'm doing these days.

I was hoping for some 3rd person 12kw shots, I know at some point you will get them, as that's the Hyena way.

Yeah definitely some 3rd person stuff coming, I'm not really supposed to be riding with my back so I'm still taking it pretty easy and can't be riding in a fashion that will look interesting on the screen. Next time I go for a ride with sigmacom I'll swap the cameras around a bit and put it on his bomber so you get some 3rd person following view of the raptor. A rapidly diminishing view of the back of my bike is how most other riders will ever see it

BTW, full burnout vid to follow. Might do another one this weekend too before I throw knobbies back on it.
The only problem is it's been raining nearly every day lately. I guess I'll just have to do one in my garage