I am DETERMINED to build a bike that can do this!

[dogman dan]

While I am pretty happy all summer riding 10-20 mph on trails on my lame hub motored dirt bike, what I'm really yearning for is fall when I can get back to pedaling for it on my Specailized MTB. Why? Why would a guy with 3-4 ebikes in the garage want to pedal? Because all my ebikes handle like a lead pig compared to my specialized. Put the guy in that video on an ebike packing 15 pounds of motor and battery and he's going to go this bike handles like shit.

But it might handle a bit nicer than a 125 motorcycle. It's all relative though, the way I ride I'm suprised I can even feel the difference. I have to wonder, have you ridden much on a really nice high end DH or crosscountry bike? You might change your tune on handling when you do if you haven't. It sure dropped the blinders from my eyes when I got that crosscountry specialized. That thing makes me very very brave.

 

[kfong]

Dogman is right, I get passed by really good mountain bikers all the time and I thought I was going fast. Having a lighter setup makes if feel like you are sprinting. Even the high end DH bikes focus on keeping thing light but burly. I just picked up a Kona Cowan, frame is built to take some serious abuse, but it’s also amazingly light. It's meant for jumping but since I don't have the mountains out west I thought it would be a good compromise. It will be an RC build to keep it light and I will be getting nanotech lipos for the batts and house them like I did with my BMC build.

It's all relative though since it's how much fun you have doing it. Even though I get passed, I'm quite happy not to be exerting as much energy.

While I am pretty happy all summer riding 10-20 mph on trails on my lame hub motored dirt bike, what I'm really yearning for is fall when I can get back to pedaling for it on my Specailized MTB. Why? Why would a guy with 3-4 ebikes in the garage want to pedal? Because all my ebikes handle like a lead pig compared to my specialized. Put the guy in that video on an ebike packing 15 pounds of motor and battery and he's going to go this bike handles like shit.

But it might handle a bit nicer than a 125 motorcycle. It's all relative though, the way I ride I'm suprised I can even feel the difference. I have to wonder, have you ridden much on a really nice high end DH or crosscountry bike? You might change your tune on handling when you do if you haven't. It sure dropped the blinders from my eyes when I got that crosscountry specialized. That thing makes me very very brave.

 

[kfong]

Damn shinyballs, I thought you were the first to have one. That's the setup I wanted but the Kona came along and was too good of a deal for me to pass up. Still hoping someone here takes up the reign, since it would be an awesome setup. A bit heavy but solid and I would have no hesitation riding it on the streets as a real motorcycle and register it as a moped.

Not easy but very doable

using a dh bike frame = FAIL
any bicycle frame? = FAIL
for they are not designed to handle the metal stress, torque, g-force, etc... for this type of riding.

what to use is a custom frame built as a dirt bike like this one -
http://www.motopeds.com

View attachment 1

and use the right motor for it.

 

[dingoEsride]

Once you put power on a bike it will never handle as good because of the extra weight as the film clip guy, but a great idea, power to get you up the hill and well placed power to have great fun on your way down

 

[Doctorbass]

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!!

But.. i'm still interested to it. it's like the exact Stealth bomber style frame except for the battery box and V-box transmission. But very nice anyway!

I see we could fit like 3kWh of lipo in that frame!

I look forward for that frame. i'll inform Bikeraider and Turbobass.. they could be interested in one!

Doc

 

[Whiplash]

The thing you have to remember here guys, is that is a WORLD CLASS rider and not one of us here, including myself can handle a bike like that. I understand what you are saying about weight, but the fact is, most downhill style bikes are in the high 30's for weight, and I am hoping to get mine in the mid to high 40's with any luck, so it will not be much heavier. Add to that the fact that any one of us will be going most likely half his speed in the video, at least through the tight stuff where the weight matters, it will be of no consequence. Keep in mind too that MOST of us here have never ridden an E-bike that is this capable so any of your negatives are nothing but speculation, and based on experience from a bike that weighs as much as 30lbs more than mine will! I think when I get something I am happy with, you will be thoroughly impressed with the handling. Also just because a bike is not optimal for a certain style of riding does not mean it can't do it, I have been out on my little $150.00 Schwinn, PASSING guys on $4,000.00 full suspension bikes down the big hills at 40MPH! And you should have seen their FACES! LOL! Its all about picking good lines..

The fact is, the riders skill level determines what the bike can do and NOTHING not even a REALLY heavy bike will stop a good rider from going fast, and neither will an ultra badass bike make an average rider good....EVER.

 

[Whiplash]

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!!

But.. i'm still interested to it. it's like the exact Stealth bomber style frame except for the battery box and V-box transmission. But very nice anyway!

I see we could fit like 3kWh of lipo in that frame!

I look forward for that frame. i'll inform Bikeraider and Turbobass.. they could be interested in one!

Doc

Doc,
Its a cool bike for sure, but be careful adding a lot of weight to that chassis, I know how you like batteries! The single spine frame like that under any good impact will fold like a stepladder with no lock! I would be weary of the frame and add some bracing underneath running from the head tube to the bottom bracket!

 

[Doctorbass]

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!!

But.. i'm still interested to it. it's like the exact Stealth bomber style frame except for the battery box and V-box transmission. But very nice anyway!

I see we could fit like 3kWh of lipo in that frame!

I look forward for that frame. i'll inform Bikeraider and Turbobass.. they could be interested in one!

Doc

add some bracing underneath running from the head tube to the bottom bracket!

Exactly.. that's what i am thinking!

 

[kfong]

All the bracing needed is where the engine use to go. They have gussets on the head tube, so an interesting battery mount that fills in for the motor would be a easy solution. I'm surprised you haven't seen that bike earlier Doc, I wanted it the first time I saw it.

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!!

But.. i'm still interested to it. it's like the exact Stealth bomber style frame except for the battery box and V-box transmission. But very nice anyway!

I see we could fit like 3kWh of lipo in that frame!

I look forward for that frame. i'll inform Bikeraider and Turbobass.. they could be interested in one!

Doc

add some bracing underneath running from the head tube to the bottom bracket!

Exactly.. that's what i am thinking!

 

[shinyballs]

some sample bracing... making it a rolling chassis..

 

[dogman dan]

Perhaps I got preachy again. I've been chasing the perfect dirt bike on a budget for a few years now. Some of them really handled poorly. I don't want to discourage anybody from finding the holy grail, but I don't think any kind of hubmotor will cut it for long. It's the sprung weight unsprung weight thing. Just gotta get that weight on the right side of the shocks, not down on the wheel. Smallish gearmotors will simply fry on dirt trails. Iv'e done the testing, and planetary gears are fine for short rides. I want long rides in conditions where your shoes melt from touching the ground.

But like I said, I'm having a fun summer on this years model, which runs rings around 95% of the pedalers out there on the trail, up or down the hill. It handles like crap, but much better than past attempts that were hardtails. The other 5% of the riders on the trail blow me away anytime, because they ride about like the guy in the film. They seem to climb the hill faster than a motored bike! Gotta just hate a really fit 25 year old. Those days are gone for me. This is what I'm riding now, 6x10 (2810) nine continent, 20 amp controller, 48v battery.se.jpg"]0[/ATTACH]

 

[Ypedal]

off topic. but dogman.. you really gotta pump 60+ amps into your X5 for shits'n'giggles... :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

I agree. But one nice thing about the lame 20 mph 20 amp bike is that it remains legal to ride on the BLM mountain bike trails. But there is miles and miles of road out here, ready to ride faster if you think the frame won't break in half. Rough roads so it might.

Workiing on getting the 72v rig together. Never got the controller working right, so I've ordered another with sensors this time. Should arrive any day, and I'm collecting lipo as fast as I can afford. I'm getting there, but time, energy and money are limited. A fun trail bike that only goes 20 mph still sucks up a lot of that time. Very fun to chase rabbits cross country through the desert.

 

[magudaman]

Your Idea is sort of what I was going for in my project but it ended up a bit heavier than orginally planned with my 20+ mile range requirement. Its amazing what it has made up so far but no rear brake has made my downhilling abilities hindered. I recently climbed my local mount doing over 3000ft of assent and had power to spare at the top. Make sure your chain/drive system is bullet proof. My end weight was ~90lbs.

Kind of an old photo:

 

[Whiplash]

I bet you could get it closer to 70 with LiPo! If there is a Holy E-Grail, that HAS to be it! The cars are even starting to use it! I have a feeling we will have some nice off the shelf BMS's for it soon as well! Gary already has some nice stuff which I will be using for my bikes...

 

[Whiplash]

You know, you should just mount your disk brake on the front side of the rear drive sproket, in between the chain! I bet it would work! Just keep the lube to a minimum and use the motocross sticky stuff...

 

[Ariane]

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!! Doc

Doc for about 1395 $ US you only getting this :



Without fork, front wheel, rear wheel, brakes so your Giant is better in my mind for your project also this frame is made for 26" rim not 24" rim bicycle wheel like you use on your Giant. :wink:

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[shinyballs]

Not true. The motoped frame uses a 24" mtb wheel on the rear.
for me, I'll go with a rear motorcycle rim and spokes like this 21 x 1.6, 7000 Series Aluminum warp9 or better -




SPECS
Engine
Engine Type Honda 50/Import 4-stroke automatic clutch
Ignition CDI

Chassis/Suspension / Brakes
Frame 4130 Chromoly CRF50/Pit Bike Style frame
Swing Arm 6061 Aluminum hand TIG welded in Santa Cruz, CA
Body/Seat /Fenders CRF50/Pit Bike
Front Suspension 8" travel, Downhill mountain bike 1-1/8" headset
Rear Suspension 8" travel, 10.5"-11" ItoI Pitbike shock
Front Brake Downhill mountain bike hydraulic Disc 8" rotor
Rear Brake Downhill mountain bike hydraulic Disc 8" rotor
Front Rim & Tire 26" downhill mountain bike
Rear Rim & Tire 24" downhill mountain bike

Dimensions
Rake 24 degrees
Wheelbase 54 inches
Seat Height 36 inches
Bottom Bracket Height 14.75 inches
Ground Clearance 12 inches
Curb Weight 107 pounds-Dry, 115-ready to ride(depending on components used)
Fuel Capacity .8 gallon

OMG.. The Unreal cycle is so interesting!!.. Having discovered it would have bought it instead of the Giant i have now!! Doc

Doc for about 1395 $ US you only getting this :

View attachment 1

Without fork, front wheel, rear wheel, brakes so your Giant is better in my mind for your project also this frame is made for 26" rim not 24" rim bicycle wheel like you use on your Giant. :wink:

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Ariane]

Hi,

Big mistake the rear wheel is 24" sorry Doc. But one fact remains you actually have more thing for less with your Giant.

P.S. Shinyballs i love your Wrap 9 rim really nice :wink:

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Whiplash]

Curb Weight 107 pounds-Dry, 115-ready to ride(depending on components used)

Here is where it falls short in my opinion, if that is with the ICE then with a E motor, it will be WAAY over that unless you use Lipo, and even then, it will be more once you get the gearbox, motor, controller and misc elec goodies..

WAAY to heavy for a bike this size, and if you wanted to do any real off road stuff, not the easy flowing stuff they were doing in the video, you will brake the front forks unless you go with a true MX fork, and that means even MORE weight, bottom line is its a great idea and cool for trails, but that's about it...

 

[gwhy!]

Why is that thing so heavy!! 52kg !!
when this water cooled, 270cc, built like a brick shithouse motor bike is only 20kg more!

 

[Whiplash]

Yeah, take the gas motor out of that, trim it up a bit and have a bitch-en dual sport E motorcycle!

 

[full-throttle]

Does anybody else find the video sped up 1.5x or even 2x in places?

 

[magudaman]

I bet you could get it closer to 70 with LiPo! If there is a Holy E-Grail, that HAS to be it! The cars are even starting to use it! I have a feeling we will have some nice off the shelf BMS's for it soon as well! Gary already has some nice stuff which I will be using for my bikes...

Well I started with a 40lbs bike so I added 50lbs of gear, 21 lbs of which was batteries. IF I went lipo I would have only saved about 4lbs according to the numbers.


MotoPED: The frame with exhaust, bottom bracket, and shock (not fork) is 29.5 lbs

 

[Whiplash]

Really? Because my 58V hot of Lipo @ 10AH only weighs in at about 7lbs?