I did a gun-control petition
- Thread starter SniperGaulois
- Start date
SplinterOz
1 kW
Drunkskunk said:
Actually I believe that in the US like most countries if you are drunk (on Alcohol) you are banned from being in control of an automobile. Just like you have to prove you are competent to drive before being allowed to.
So yes it is a danger and it is illegal. Now about those guns in the hands of untrained people.
bobc
10 kW
"it's not the guns, it's the nutters using them" I have no time for that horsesh1t. Guns make it easy, too too easy.
Ban gun ownership -?? you should ban the production and marketing too. Pedlars in death, bereavement and stupid stupid machismo.
I am moved by the dreadful events in Newtown - it's not often I thank god t hat I live in UK.
Those who believe another idiot with a gun should have stopped the tragedy - what planet are they on - can they not see the irony of their statements?
The impression given is that they are saying "I wish I were given an excuse to shoot somebody dead". Nice
Ban gun ownership -?? you should ban the production and marketing too. Pedlars in death, bereavement and stupid stupid machismo.
I am moved by the dreadful events in Newtown - it's not often I thank god t hat I live in UK.
Those who believe another idiot with a gun should have stopped the tragedy - what planet are they on - can they not see the irony of their statements?
The impression given is that they are saying "I wish I were given an excuse to shoot somebody dead". Nice
StudEbiker
100 kW
bobc said:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#
NeilP
1 GW
Of course that is the perfect solution, Hey ..why not ban murder..that will stop the criminals from murdering people...oh hang on we already have that law and it does not seem to be working ..wonder why that is.??? .what a surprise ..criminals not obeying the law.bobc said:
ban production and mareting..what exactly woudl that do for the criminals...f..k all..they would just make their own or import from elsewhere..like they now do in the UK.
like it or not an ban is not the answer. It will only affect the law abiding,
rkosiorek
100 kW
people have brought up Israel and Switzerland as examples of societies where there are many guns in the hands of the people. well in both unlike the US the government has spent a lot of time training everyone in the proper use of firearms by a draft and mandatory service in first the regular army and later a reserve army. their training continues with mandatory reserve duty until age 55 or so.
this formal training is lacking in most countries. including the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and others. this formal training at least attempts to teach safe, responsible firearms use. it also tends to weed out many of the whack jobs. a gun irresponsibly used by an untrained individual though well intentioned could be just as dangerous as the whacko gunman. shooting at the gunman, what is your backstop? if you miss or the bullet goes through the gunman where is it going to end up?
having served in Israel i'm pretty sure that the woman in the picture with the rifle has had more than a single night class training and is going to think ahead and shoot carefully.
rick
edited to correct spelling and Switzerland instead of Sweden
this formal training is lacking in most countries. including the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and others. this formal training at least attempts to teach safe, responsible firearms use. it also tends to weed out many of the whack jobs. a gun irresponsibly used by an untrained individual though well intentioned could be just as dangerous as the whacko gunman. shooting at the gunman, what is your backstop? if you miss or the bullet goes through the gunman where is it going to end up?
having served in Israel i'm pretty sure that the woman in the picture with the rifle has had more than a single night class training and is going to think ahead and shoot carefully.
rick
edited to correct spelling and Switzerland instead of Sweden
bobc said:
Yes, take the guns away, so that they can use a different murder weapon.
Then go a step further and ban knives, gasoline, fertilizer, cars, hammers, baseball bats, chainsaws, sheet metal, karate training, wrestling training, boxing training, boxcutters, planes, any power tool capable of exerting force.
Then maybe we'll finally live in a violence free utopia for the first time in 20,000 years of recorded history.
NeilP
1 GW
neptronix said:
have to do away with all the humans too...
Actually "assault weapons" are great for defense against invading militia and mobs of evildoers; that's the intended application. Every Swiss citizen gets handed a semi-automatic rifle at the age of 18, but their gun violence rate is super low. If you think semi-automatic weapons are a problem, then you have misdiagnosed the problem.
That is like me saying that 20 inch wheels are dangerous because a lot of people crash on ebikes with them ( just look at luke's bikes! ), and that we should ban 20 inch wheels.
By the way, "assault weapons" are banned in Connecticut, where the shooting happened. The shooter did not use one. He still killed plenty of people. He used a weapon that is legal in the state. He bypassed mental health and background checks by simply deciding to pick one up. He must have laughed at the sign that said 'this is a gun free zone' on his way into the building.
Let's say that the Colorado shooter wasn't able to get an assault weapon. He could have ran a car bomb into the theater, or sprayed gas over the whole joint and lit it up instead. He could have thrown an improvised grenade into the crowd, or maybe a few moltov cocktails. He could have driven a stolen semi truck through the giant crowd standing in a line outside the theater. These would have been more effective attacks that would have killed far more people.
You cannot create a utopian society by creating new laws. The effect can be the opposite. People can't legally own guns in Mexico, and that place is an absolute bloodbath.
That is like me saying that 20 inch wheels are dangerous because a lot of people crash on ebikes with them ( just look at luke's bikes! ), and that we should ban 20 inch wheels.
By the way, "assault weapons" are banned in Connecticut, where the shooting happened. The shooter did not use one. He still killed plenty of people. He used a weapon that is legal in the state. He bypassed mental health and background checks by simply deciding to pick one up. He must have laughed at the sign that said 'this is a gun free zone' on his way into the building.
Let's say that the Colorado shooter wasn't able to get an assault weapon. He could have ran a car bomb into the theater, or sprayed gas over the whole joint and lit it up instead. He could have thrown an improvised grenade into the crowd, or maybe a few moltov cocktails. He could have driven a stolen semi truck through the giant crowd standing in a line outside the theater. These would have been more effective attacks that would have killed far more people.
You cannot create a utopian society by creating new laws. The effect can be the opposite. People can't legally own guns in Mexico, and that place is an absolute bloodbath.
Well, i suspect they are wrong. Media reporting on this issue has been very mixed. Some outlets are saying that he used pistols.
Your article says this:
If the guns used were legally registered in Connecticut, then they were not semi automatic weapons, because those are not allowed in Connecticut.
Your article says this:
If the guns used were legally registered in Connecticut, then they were not semi automatic weapons, because those are not allowed in Connecticut.
NeilP
1 GW
Miles said:
It is splitting hairs and getting away from the point really. it is a fractionally different caliber ( a non military round) , it is just terminology getting in the way.
I would have thought it is not 'officially an assault rifle, so someone who just see the name 'Bushmaster' would not think 'assault rifle'. So the confusion is clear to me ..if you get my meaning.
But...it looks like an AR-15..which it is based on) which IS an assault rifle AFAIK, but the caliber is marginally different , and ones rounds can be used in the other but not the other way around. ( not safely anyway so i read)
Since it is called a 'Bushmaster' the implication is that it is a hunting rifle. Quite clearly it looks exactly the same as the assault version ( the AR-15). So even if Assault weapons are banned, the Bushmaster would quite probably be allowed because of the different spec.
I am no expert on this matter,i just did a quick Google search on Bushmaster .223 semiautomatic rifle, since I had no idea what one was and the info was there. A way aroudn the law if you like. Not saying it is right , but it happens and will always happen, people will find away a loophole, especially if they feel they have had something taken away from them due to the actions of others.
In France, I believe, military caliber guns are banned. so no 9mm or .45...but hey guess what...up pops the 10mm Delta round, with the same guns being re barrelled to take the new non military round ( Colt 1911 etc).
On a far less serious basis we all do the same with our e-bikes...250 watt stickers etc.getting around a law that is inconvenient to us. We do this as we know ( hopefully) what we are doing, and most of us do it safely, but would not go and hand our bikes to a little kid or granny to go down the shops with..
Laws are created to control the minority ( who will ignore them anyway) to the inconvenience of the majority who are going to be sensible
Doctorbass
100 GW
Guns are made to kill or dissuade, that's their purpose.
The more you have the more death you'll have period!
Doc
The more you have the more death you'll have period!
Doc
NeilP said:
You're absolutely correct!
How many of us run illegal levels of power?
How many of us think that the laws are unreasonably stupid?
If you say 'yes' to both questions, you understand how stupid the media/talking head frenzy gets whenever they think that just because 0.0000001% of the operators of said device have used it irresponsibly, then 100% should be heavily restricted.
You folks outside of the USA have had your electric bikes whittled down so far it's ridiculous. I wouldn't even be interested in owning a legal power ebike out there. Why did that happen? government whittled your rights down before critical mass ebike ridership + legal groups ( such as an equivalent to the NRA ) capable of fighting the removal of your liberty could have been formed.
I don't own a gun but i bet the average gun owner sees things similarly.
NeilP
1 GW
Miles said:
So? the principle is still the same. banning something from the majority because of a minority who will misuse it.
Just a case of those who feel they are morally superior can be tyrannical to those that they feel are wrong. Bicycle helmet laws etc...
" You are a miniority, we are morally superior..therefore your views don't count"
NeilP
1 GW
It is still a law to control people that are going to do something stupid, despite the fact the majority will not.
And no matter how many laws there were banning them ( Semi Auto /auto/ whatever/single shot/) it would still have happened. because the guy was prepared to kill. That is the law..no killing..if he is prepared to do that..a few 'paper laws saying he can't have a semi auto ain't going to stop him
And no matter how many laws there were banning them ( Semi Auto /auto/ whatever/single shot/) it would still have happened. because the guy was prepared to kill. That is the law..no killing..if he is prepared to do that..a few 'paper laws saying he can't have a semi auto ain't going to stop him
Miles said:
If an outright ban on assault weapon ownership would be retroactive to current lawful owners, it'll be interesting to see how much civil disobedience might result. I doubt that many buying up guns now in anticipation of stricter laws will just turn them in once they're banned. If not retroactive, so-called assault weapons were banned before yet the Aurora, CO and Newtown shootings happened anyway.
NeilP
1 GW
Just found this
Not read the complete article, though
http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime
Not read the complete article, though
http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime
