I think I was scammed? Help with controller

[Pillowcasing]

Hi! TLDR at the bottom

So I bought a brand new, fairly expensive scooter and from the get go, it felt off.

The key selling points of the scooter for me, was that it has dual 52v 1200w motors, with a max output of 2400w. And that it has very good suspension.

Right off the bat, I realized that the front suspension is utter shit, it does nothing, even with my entire bodyweight on the front wheel, the suspension barely moves. Further, the torque seemed off, and noticably weaker than my previous one. The rear wheel break disc got bent the first week, and yesterday the charge plug fell out. I opened it up to re-attach the plug and that's where things got worse.

TLDR: After opening the scooter body to attach the charge plug, I got suspicious of the size of the motor controllers, they are tiny. Combined with the fact that it's been feeling underwhelming, I decided to take a peek.

I'm a noob at this, as this is the first controller I've even seen from the inside. But from what I can gather, it has 6 MOSFETs, under specced transistor, looks like it got a shunt mod from the store? The soldering is wack and all in all it looks like it's completely under specced and will not last long, especially with the shunt?

Can someone help me identify the controller, and help me find some hard proof that this is not at all OK for a brand new and expensive scooter? I would be highly appreciative to get some help getting my money back!

Thank you!

 

[bananu7]

help me find some hard proof that this is not at all OK for a brand new and expensive scooter

Nothing you're saying seems off for a generic vehicle made in China with a logo slapped on it to sell for more locally. Just because it was expensive, doesn't mean it will be good. Suspension is very subjective and it will be hard for you to objectively prove that it's not "very good". As far as the power goes, if the controller does indeed produce less than 2400W, you could try to argue that you got less that you paid for, but proving that will likely require a 3rd party signed opinion and potentially a court settlement, which will probably cost more than the scooter. "The soldering is wack" isn't going to stand as a legal complaint, either, especially since it still seems to be working fine.

I guess you'll know to test ride (or at the very least, read reviews) before you buy next time. At least here, you can return an online purchase in two weeks, and that time is meant to do the evaluation you described. If you can't do that, it can be argued that you bought it knowing full well what you're buying, there was no provable misrepresentation, and as such, it's on you.

 

[E-HP]

Can someone help me identify the controller, and help me find some hard proof that this is not at all OK for a brand new and expensive scooter? I would be highly appreciative to get some help getting my money back!

Why not just enjoy it as is, or just return it? Putting more money into something that’s already over priced makes no sense. If you’ve already uncovered things that don’t meet the specs or your expectations, how do you know there aren’t other issues. The battery may be specked for those anemic controllers and replacing them may just lead to other issues. Either take the lesson and loss, and salvage some enjoyment out of the thing, or return it.

 

[Pillowcasing]

What I wanted, was some undisputable information about why the shunt is not a good idea, that it's underspecced (not just my feeling) etc, so that I could take it to the shop. Because it seems like this would go under false advertisment regulations in my country. But I need to go on more than my feeling

 

[E-HP]

I see a lot of undisputed pics of you voiding the warranty. Is that hard enough evidence to show them?

 

[Pillowcasing]

Seems like the lot of you believes that it's ok to sell an electric scooter with an underspecced shunt modded controller, and boasting how amazing everything is, while charging 1.2k, is completely ok. And that as a buyer, I should simply have known better. Alright then, thank you

PS: I've realized I need to do far more research, and probably build it myself next time as there are only two suppliers of scooters above 1kw in my country, and I suspect their the same.

However, I still think it's a shameful business model and that many people who just want a scooter and who believes that spending that kind of cash will give them something worthwhile are going to be sorely disappointed after a short period of time from purchase...

 

[E-HP]

There are no Chinese EV parts or factory vehicles that aren’t full of false claims. Most people find that out here when purchasing DIY parts and learn their lesson without shelling out tons of money. Simple math can many times reveal the inconsistency in the stated specs, and other times the claims are so ridiculous that they are laughable. If you bought it locally, I can’t believe they didn’t let you test ride it, but I guess that’s part of the scam.

 

[Pillowcasing]

Mind you, this is not bought online or from a Chinese retailer. This is bought in a store in my town.

 

[E-HP]

So they didn’t let you test ride it?

 

[Pillowcasing]

Yes they did, on a small flat area and with speed restrictions. Seemed fine, but hard to tell anything about torque etc when it's flat and speed limited. It runs ok, I'm just saying I don't believe it will last very long with what seems to me like a ridiculously underspecced controller. It also definitely lacks torque compared to my previous one.

 

[E-HP]

If it runs OK, just enjoy it while it lasts, and change the parts if they get cooked.
You can post a review in the vendor relations subforum if you want to warn others.

 

[amberwolf]

However, I still think it's a shameful business model and that many people who just want a scooter and who believes that spending that kind of cash will give them something worthwhile are going to be sorely disappointed after a short period of time from purchase...

It is shameful...but it is extremely common, partly because the people selling the things don't generally know anything about them at all, no technical knowledge, and wouldn't have a clue what any of the guts do or fi they were even the ones they thought they were buying to sell to other people.

Unfortunately this kind of thing gets posted about for whole vehicles and individual parts reasonably frequently, and there are doubtless many many more that don't get posted here or anywhere else...and many many many more that would get posted if the end-users that bought the vehicles or parts had any idea that what they got wasn't what they bought.

I wish we could tell you something better, but most likely your real options are:
--try to return it and build your own once you learn enough about them to buy all the right parts to do the job you want it to do, with all the features you want,
or
--use it as-is while you learn all that and either upgrade it or build a new one (I'd do the latter, so you have something that at least works while you build the other, and you can then sell it to recoup some of your costs once the new one is up and running and verified).
or
--start replacing parts on this one until it does what you want (a common but expensive approach)


And as noted above, you can post a detailed review / warning about the actual vehicle itself, and the specific seller, over here:

Vendor Relations Corner

endless-sphere.com

to help others avoid the same issues.





PS: regarding size of controller vs power output: While I suspect the ones you have there *aren't* actually capable of much sustained power, or even peak, especially if they are not mounted out in the airflow with external heatsinks or active cooling, there *are* tiny controllers that *can* do this, with the proper heatsinking, such as the Phaserunner, Baserunner, etc. The PR is just about 3.9" x 1.6" x 1.4", not counting whatever heatsink you mount it to for sustained high current usage. I think they're about half a pound in weight, but haven't looked that up--some of the weight is because they're potted for weatherproofing.

I use two Phaserunners on the SB Cruiser trike to run it with peaks of around 2kW each for a few seconds during acceleration, and occasionally for a fair bit longer when it's really windy like today (the trike is less aero than a good brick), and though they don't usually have to do much more than 400-500W each for normal cruising on flat ground once I reach the 20MPH limit of the trike, they could, and have, under some of hte more unusual riding conditions I encounter here.



Remember also that the battery itself would have to be capable of supplying more than the rated system power (by at least say, 20%, maybe as much as 40-50% if it's poorly setup for the terrain/riding conditions it's used in), for the system to operate correclty or at all at that full power level. You'd get lower torque, lower speed, etc., if the battery voltage sags a lot under load, which it will do if the battery can't supply the current required. For 2400W at 52V(nominal), that's 2400 / 52 = 47A (best to always round up in these calculations).

So you should check the battery specifications to be sure it can handle a full 47A or more *continuously*, as if it can't then the system couldn't deliver the 2400W even if the controllers and motors could.



Regarding the solder on the shunt: I've seen that on some controllers from the factory where they "tuned" the shunt resistance for whatever reason with a dab of solder, or where they were so bad at soldering that a glob ended up on the shunt (and often other places) while they were soldering battery or phase wires or whatever in. Some of the controllers came installed in bikes, etc., and some were just bare controllers (or from kits).

I don't know anything about the store selling the stuff to y'all there, or it's people, but I would expect that's a factory thing rather than a store thing.


Quality of the soldering and assembly looks pretty typical for every piece of ebike anything I've ever had, short of some of the stuff from Grin Tech ebikes.ca that was better (sometimes much better). I've had much worse assembly/solder in some of the random stuff I've gotten (including caps soldered in backwards that then failed / exploded, etc).


I dont' recognize the controller manufacturer, but there are many that custom make stuff for vehicle builders, and make the label only wiht info from that factory, and don't put their own on it.

 

[amberwolf]

BTW, if you post pics of the entire scooter (especially a good sideview against a white wall that can be used for reverse-image-searches) and provide details of it's brand, model, specifications, etc., pics of the manual if it has one, those may help us to point you to the actual manufacturer, or at least find pages with other versions of the same scootert that may have info you can use.