I waant to go LiPo!

[o00scorpion00o]

HI Guys,

I'm back and still no Zippy 8ah 6S so I'm going to cancel the order!

I'm now looking at the 5800 ah 6S and they are stocked in the Euro warehouse.

I will order 4 for 11600 Ah capacity, however, obeying the golden Lipo rules charging to 4.1 volts and discharge to 3.6 volts will give me around 20% less capacity meaning I will have around 9.6ah capacity is that about right?

And I need to be clear on theis, I'm not sure from reading above I get this bit yet!

The charge rate is 2C so while charging just one battery at 2C that's a charge rate of 11.6 amps, but if I charge 2 in parallel does that mean I could possibly charge at 4C 23 amps?

2C is plenty, just to be sure in case I decide to do something stupid lol, I won't have the power supply to allow me 4C anyways, it's just handy to know!

Thanks


Mark

 

[neptronix]

That sucks about the 8aH packs! I was eyeing some of those myself. What a tease!

The lower the voltage you charge to, the longer the lipos will last. I do 4.15v/cell myself because i don't ride anywhere near daily. 4.10 and lower will stretch out the cycles, at the expense of the top ~5%-10% of the pack

You can discharge down to 3.55v/cell no problem.. even a bit lower if you have really really balanced cells. But for lifetime, 3.6v/cell is probably best.. though i have not seen studies indicating that shaving the low portion of the charge off is good for life. So i personally just discharge to 3.45v/cell at the moment just as a buffer against any cells going down to 3.0v/cell.

See how it pans out in real life and report back.

Yep, if you have two packs in parallel, you can charge twice as fast.
However you would not be charging at 4C technically. You would be still charging at 2C.

Think about it this way, 1C = the capacity of the entire pack in amps. So if you have a capacity of 5.8AH, that's a 5.8amp charge rate.
They are called amp hours because the pack can supply 5.8amps for an hour.. or 1 amp for 5.8 hours.. get it?

So if you charge at 1C, you're charging at 5.8amps and the duration will be about an hour..

If you have a 11.6amp pack, 1C is 11.6amps. 2C is 23.2 amps. Get it?
For max battery life though, you should charge at 1C or below for those 20C batteries.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi David.

yeah I get the 1C = 5800 AH and 2C = 11.6

SO that's actually cool that you can charge twice as fast with 2 packs or 4 times as fast with 4 bricks in parallel!

Right the weather is still cold and shit, so I guess I'm not going to be riding every day, and especially not in winter that's for sure so screw cycle life that's what I say.

I Reckon I'm going to get 2 years at full capacity If I'm not out all day, and I'm sure they have a calender life also!

So what I want to know is in order to get my exact 5800 out of these batteries what do I need to charge and discharge to, I guess I charge to 4.2 since the Icharger won't allow you to charge any higher for LiPo, so what's the maximum discharge voltage for maximum capacity?

 

[neptronix]

The iCharger will let you go up to 4.3v for lipo, but that's not recommended at all. That will slash your cycle life by more than half.

To get the full mAH, charge to 4.2, discharge to about 3.4v/cell average. ( make sure your cells are fully balanced before going that low... and check the cells to make sure that none go below 3.0v/cell there ).

There is a little bit extra capacity in the packs, usually 500-100mAh actually. If you took apart a pack, you'd see a little label saying the real capacity.. it is a bit higher !
So with those voltages you should get what's rated, if not a tiny bit more.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Thanks for the reply David,

It's so hard to get stuff, and it's a total pain in the ass!

I will have to wait until tomorrow before I get a reply from HK to see if they will cancel my order and refund me, when I click on cancel order it says I have to contact HK for a refund, this is really turning out to be too much hassle.

Sometimes I wish I went with cell-mans 11.5 ah A123 frame mount battery I would at least have it by now!

No matter what I do it's going to be weeks before I get anything!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Actually I'm clicking on the Euro stock and there is nothing available in 6S 5ah!

So much for the great hobby king.

www.backorder.com

 

[o00scorpion00o]

OK I'll try this again, I clicked on post reply and it asked me to log in then it lost my post! :x

Right this is my situation,

I can order the dragon batteries from China on E-bay

http://cgi.ebay.ie/22-2v-5000MAH-30C-LIPO-6s-22-2-VOLT-RC-AKKU-BATTERY-DR-/300551476130?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item45fa4393a2#shId

And a review

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-off-road/505314-dragon-red-lipo-battery.html

Zippy from E-bay in the U.K

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Flightmax-5000mAh-6S-22-2v-25C-Lipo-TREX-600-etc-UK-/370507062578?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item5643f11d32


Price from the U.K including postage is 324 Euros

From China is 210 Euros including postage.

I can live with the 1C charge rate which I can still charge the 2x 5ah at 10 amps, that's good enough!

So the thing is do I order from the china and save 110 Euros, and probably have to wait weeks, or do I order from the U.K and possibly have by Thursday, though Royal Mail is a completely shit company for delivery to Ireland, maybe he could send by U.P.S!

Now of course isn't it typical as soon as I mention refund to Hobby King that I don't get a reply? and it takes a day for a reply, so that now means I won't hear from them until Monday, that's if they bother to reply knowing I want a refund, but the fact they can't keep stock in is not my problem, they either want to do business or they don't, I don't care what their excuses are, and I don't care if the loyal followers of HK here have a problem with my bad review of them, I bet they won't be the ones waiting for batteries!

So I can't order anything until I hear from HK!

I am so F*****g P****d Off!!!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

OK they Just E-mailed me back saying they gave me store credits for my next purchase and no mention of refund?

E-mailing them now!

 

[Spacey]

Credit card? chargeback

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi spacey,

I Payed with pay pal

 

[theRealFury]

OK they Just E-mailed me back saying they gave me store credits for my next purchase and no mention of refund?

E-mailing them now!

they are probably reading this thread lol and noticed you were intending on taking your money to another company. Thats bad form though. they should give you a full refund without argument, not d**k around with store credits to try and keep your money. Im just looking at those dragonred lipo now... hmm... time to research on these a bit i think :wink:

 

[o00scorpion00o]

they are probably reading this thread lol and noticed you were intending on taking your money to another company. Thats bad form though. they should give you a full refund without argument, not d**k around with store credits to try and keep your money. Im just looking at those dragonred lipo now... hmm... time to research on these a bit i think :wink:

Yes I hope they are reading this and cursing the hell out of me, I gave them my money and do I give a s**t what these guys problems are? NO

Yes I know I ordered a backorder item and was willing to wait the "30 days" they have on their site, However I'm not willing to wait another 30 days they can refund me or I'm getting on to paypal!

If I already had batteries and the time was coming that I needed to replace them, or waiting for a new project while I still was able to ride my existing bike I wouldn't be too worried, but still they should give a reasonable expectation time. If they can't keep the stock levels up too bad, not my problem, I'll take my business elsewhere!

They gave me credits without asking if I wanted them, what did they think I was going to do, let them keep my money while I shell out more to another company? yeah right!

Funny I haven't heard back since the E-mail this morning and I replied straight away!

The dragons are worth a look If I had batteries already and could wait longer, I would buy 2 to test them out!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay I got through to the live support and got a guy called Rickey,

He said I will get a refund and to allow 1-2 days, so I will order now from storm RC!

Why does everything have to be so difficult ???

So I'm going to order the 5ah 6S Zippy's. 10 ah should be plenty and I don't give a stuff about life 300 cycles will be a lot of use for me and I intend to cycle a lot and the odd fun!

Mark

 

[theRealFury]

Okay I got through to the live support and got a guy called Rickey,

He said I will get a refund and to allow 1-2 days, so I will order now from storm RC!

Why does everything have to be so difficult ???

So I'm going to order the 5ah 6S Zippy's. 10 ah should be plenty and I don't give a stuff about life 300 cycles will be a lot of use for me and I intend to cycle a lot and the odd fun!

Mark

Glad to hear you finally got it sorted out Mark. Hope your batteries come quickly for you.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay I got through to the live support and got a guy called Rickey,

He said I will get a refund and to allow 1-2 days, so I will order now from storm RC!

Why does everything have to be so difficult ???

So I'm going to order the 5ah 6S Zippy's. 10 ah should be plenty and I don't give a stuff about life 300 cycles will be a lot of use for me and I intend to cycle a lot and the odd fun!

Mark

Glad to hear you finally got it sorted out Mark. Hope your batteries come quickly for you.

Thanks

Matt from storm r.c said He would make sure they get out today, nice chap. Worth the extra few quid, just to be able to speak to someone helpful!

I should have them by Thursday!

I'd nearly move off this Island it's just far too difficult to get anything that you can't get in a normal supermarket or hardware store! It's crazy!

Even delivery from the U.K takes ages! Id nearly take the ferry over at this stage, I'd be back by Monday Evening!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Holy Crap guys I got my Zippy's today, 2 of them, the other 2 are out of stock but Matt swears he will have no trouble getting them at all.

2 days from the U.K to Ireland via Royal Mail??? I'm still shocked, Less considering I only got them at 11.30 am!

Now holy crap they are light, I know it's only 5ah worth of LiPO but 10ah is still going to be very light, even 8 of these batteries are going to be so much lighter than a ping, I'm impressed so far!

It was worth paying a few Euros extra to get them so fast, I think I will be ordering from Matt in Storm RC in future!

Now off to make my harness! Hopefully I won't burn the house down, My girlfriend would be P****d!


Thanks Matt!

 

[Ypedal]

You can run with 5ah ! :wink:

 

[o00scorpion00o]

You can run with 5ah ! :wink:

Yeah, it's plenty to get me up and running, taking forever to balance, 1 cell was 3.5 the others were around 3.8 it's already about 2.5 hrs on the charger! This balancing sucks! Hopefully It won't take long after the first charge!

I might try figure out this resistor mod for the charger to balance faster!

 

[Ypedal]

tap into the ballance leads to charge up the low cell by itself at 2 amps, way faster !

 

[o00scorpion00o]

That's a good idea alright!

Cheers!

 

[neptronix]

eek, 3.5v/cell is almost totally discharged. That's a bad sign.
YPedal's idea will work great. keep an eye on that cell. It could very well be a dud pack.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Right I connected it all up and went for a spin.

Full throttle no pedaling 6.3 miles 4.2 ah used, the poor zippy's were fairly warm, I beat the crap out of the poor little fellows!

It's amazing the power in such small batteries, 10 ah will be more than enough and still very light!

My top speed from the ping was down by about 304mph but it's more efficient at 28-29 mph I use 800-900 watts compared to 1300 at 32 mph with the 52 V ping, but 29 mph is still plenty, even the 5ah would get me about 20-30+ miles by pedaling a lot!

And to think I was worried about burning the house down, I don't know what all the fuss was about!

this is the cell voltage after the ride.

Pack 1 cell 1---3.694, 3.674, 3.669, 3.680, 3.681, 3.680

Pack 2 Cell 1---3.681, 3.683, 3.675, 3.665, 3.673, 3.673

So to me it looks fine?

Could I now parallel charge?

Mark

 

[theRealFury]

Right I connected it all up and went for a spin.

Full throttle no pedaling 6.3 miles 4.2 ah used, the poor zippy's were fairly warm, I beat the crap out of the poor little fellows!

It's amazing the power in such small batteries, 10 ah will be more than enough and still very light!

My top speed from the ping was down by about 304mph but it's more efficient at 28-29 mph I use 800-900 watts compared to 1300 at 32 mph with the 52 V ping, but 29 mph is still plenty, even the 5ah would get me about 20-30+ miles by pedaling a lot!

And to think I was worried about burning the house down, I don't know what all the fuss was about!

this is the cell voltage after the ride.

Pack 1 cell 1---3.694, 3.674, 3.669, 3.680, 3.681, 3.680

Pack 2 Cell 1---3.681, 3.683, 3.675, 3.665, 3.673, 3.673

So to me it looks fine?

Could I now parallel charge?

Mark

wow that low cell you had looks to have recovered fast Was your 6.3 miles at WOT giving it the beans so to speak? if so that sounds like really good efficiency from 4.2ah used. If it were me i would probably give them 1 more charge separately before parallelling them to charge. but im really surprised to see a maximum 30mv cell difference after the ride... looks good Can't wait to get my lipo now.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

wow that low cell you had looks to have recovered fast Was your 6.3 miles at WOT giving it the beans so to speak? if so that sounds like really good efficiency from 4.2ah used. If it were me i would probably give them 1 more charge separately before parallelling them to charge. but im really surprised to see a maximum 30mv cell difference after the ride... looks good Can't wait to get my lipo now.

Yep Plenty of beans, all the way!

Yeah I'll pop them on the charger separately again, I'm not in a rush!

I bet I could go 12-15 miles full throttle on 10 ah, major hills probably not, but if I'm going a route with lots of hills I can peddle and use the motor for the hills!

It was weird going along without the weight of the ping in the back, it's a totally different experience, even though I only had 5ah and not 20, 20ah of zippy would still be a lot lighter than the ping, but 10ah is actually plenty for me who like peddling a lot!

Even with 8 volts less 28-29 mph is more than fast enough for me and when I install the speed switch I can try the 110% setting when I feel like showing off!

I'm another converted LiPo user now.

What was I making so much fuss for eah?

Thanks for helping me through it guys, I appreciate it a lot!

Mark

 

[theRealFury]

thats really good to hear, i was thinking of getting 10x the lipo packs for 25ah at 44.4v but it would be really tight for getting it all inside the triangle... i did my calculations on 1ah per mile at WOT and no pedaling while leaving a 20% capacity buffer. I might just buy a couple first and test it out myself now as if i get close to the 1.5miles per AH as you have then i could get away with 8 bricks and that would make space a non issue in my build . Could be different for me though as im a DD hub user and IIRC yours is a MAC geared hub?

Well guess i still have to wait for stock at HK before i can find out though lol good luck Mark and enjoy your riding.