I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

[999zip999]

That box on rear can it hold the weight of the second 48v20ah battery ?

 

[Victorious1]

So Victorious1... Knowing what you know know about the practical range per charge for your stock Gio 500+ bike, curious what you think about the "specs" listed for the bike by the importer:
http://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Scooters-in-Canada/500w-PLUS-E-Scooter/

The 48 Volt lead-acid battery system features dual 20AH batteries and will provide 60 kilometers of range on a single charge!

Any chance you questioned the retailer about this before buying?

Would you say this statement might fall under the Canadian Consumer Protection Act?
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_02c30_e.htm#BK17

14. (1) It is an unfair practice for a person to make a false, misleading or deceptive representation. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 14 (1).

Examples of false, misleading or deceptive representations
(2) Without limiting the generality of what constitutes a false, misleading or deceptive representation, the following are included as false, misleading or deceptive representations:

1. A representation that the goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, ingredients, benefits or qualities they do not have.

The internet is riddled with ebike seller sites promoting extravagant claims about range per charge, but most of these sellers are smart enough to add a disclaimer in the fine print something like "* this is only true if you are a slim Chinese lady, circling `round and `round a smooth indoor track at slow speeds with no stopping on a brand new bike well oiled with a new battery pack gently broken in and tire pressures at max..."

...and I don't see any disclaimer on the Gio site...

Can you imagine buying any other sort of vehicle and finding out right away that you have to spend a bunch more money just to get it into useful condition?

Lock

Lock, they sure look pretty in the picture don't they? But, I was deeply disappointed with what I received initially, but, GIO followed through on taking care of all my warranty issues on the first bike and this drew me into purchasing the second bike, but, this was back when the auction price was $399.95, so, ultimately, I ended up with two e-bikes at less than current price listed in your link and amazingly the second bike came to me in very good condition and at a lower price to reflect the headaches I endured with the first bike, but, I still tore it all down anyway to double check every bolt/nut torque and add Loctite wherever I could and I soldered all connectors to their wires because on the first bike several wires were only connected by a very poor crimp and some even fell off the wires. I've had brand new cars that I owned and forked over tens of thousands of dollars for them only to have them spend up to 4 months of their first year in the dealer's repair shop sorting out problems they didn't know how to fix. At least with these little bikes they are fun and cheap to work on, so far, and from what I see the engineering is not too bad on these GIO's, but, build quality is atrocious so anyone who buys one of these will just have to accept that fact and do their own quality contol inspection once they get the bike home. I could have just driven these bikes right out of their boxes, but, I hate breaking down and concrete history has clearly demonstrated to me that most any brand new machines are far less reliable than well maintained used ones, so I buckled down, got the tools out and made them both right mechanically and electrically as I could. Would I do it again in the exact same circumstances? Absolutely positively yes, but, I would not do it again at the $900. online price or the $1250. dealer price. My wife's bike with no shunt will go a solid 40 kilometers on one charge, but, she's over 100 pounds ligther, but, no lightweight so GIO's claims aren't too far off considering that it was cold day. I now wonder how far my bike would have got without the shunt mod? For me, I feel that GIO served me well and my wife and I both love to drive these bikes, so, in my opinion we didn't do too bad, but, I'm retired, have the time and tools and know how to fix these things and all I need to do now is suck up all the wonderful knowledge I'm gaining from this forum, put it into my bikes and come back here and share all I've learned to help out other newbies with their strange, new little e-bikes and might even make a few friends while I'm at it.

 

[wesnewell]

Here's my greatest concern about springing the big bucks for lithium batteries for me bikes. Let's say, for example, after I make the transition to lithium I'll post here about the swap with some problem or another with the new lithium packs then I'll end up with a couple of pages of negative posts about oh, you should not have bought that brand, or, you bought the wrong type of lithium battery pack or I used the wrong type of charger and I killed them and on and on. I think that what I am trying to say here is, (and I mean this very respectfully,) don't tell me what I am doing wrong, but, instead please tell me about what you have done right with your batteries and explain it all in accurate, vivid detail so it can be shared and absorbed by others to learn from. I'm really a high tech person, but, I'm like an infant in this field of battery/electric power and it feels like I'm drowning in new knowledge (good and bad) regarding these neat little bikes so it would be awesome to see a consistent stream of posts that all unanimously say do it this way or that way with this specific battery pack and it will work out great for you (or not, because...)

You can't go wrong with lithium. Even the cheapest crappiest there is is better than sla. I've built 3 bikes and i use nothing but lipo for these reasons;
1) It's modular. I can link lipo packs together in seconds to create any voltage I want.
2) It's powerful. 10 to 50 times more powerful than ping type lifepo4 pouch cells. You don't have to worry about pulling too many amps.
3) It's a lot cheaper if you know what to buy.
4) It's lighter and smaller than lifepo4. My first 5ah 14s lipo pack weighed a whopping 3.5 lbs. It's now a 10ah pack weighing 7 lbs @4x4x6 inches.
5) You can replace parts of it in seconds. Got a bad cell? Just replace that one pack of the total pack. After a year using lipo, I haven't had to do this.
6) You don't have to worry about keeping them fully charged like you do with sla. SLA should be charged immediately after use. Letting sla sit uncharged for just hours does damage.

The only disadvantage is that charging takes a little more care. There are many ways to safely charge lipo. I've even used my 48V sla charger that came with the motor kits to safely charge them using it as a bulk charger.
For your setup. I'd buy 9 of these (15ah, when they get back in stock) and a cheap 6s charger with parallel charge board.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15521__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack.html
That'll get you about 30 miles at 20mph. Total cost should be about $250

 

[Kin]

People are giving an insane amount of re-information and over-information on this thread. Also, above person^: Equating LiPo with LiPO4? Not the same thing, and really useful for different usage patterns.


I think the longterm consensus with everyone *including the OP* is that he'll be wanting to switch to some lithium. Probably LiPO4 for long life and simplicity/safety. Victorious, you mentioned that you want a reliable seller and decent quality goods, at a fair price, so PING is probably your best bet.


But I also understand that you're going to want to use the lead for a while now.

So, victorious, we haven't talked about your usage pattern that much. At least, I didn't see where you mentioned this scooter was going. Is it the same/similar trip every day? Charging at your end location *really* will be the simplest solution right now, and essential to take care of your batteries just a bit more. Is there any reason why you can't do that, and can we work around it? You could go so far as putting a $150 150watt solar panel at your end location, leaving your friend's lead to charge up there, and charging from that (if there is no outlet at your end location).

As a general reminder, putting batteries in parallel would mean nothing is changed in your charging setup or your usage setup. You can't blow the capacitors or anything like that. Rather than having 48v 20ah you would have 48v 27ah (if you added 12 7ah batteries in parallel). That's one of the reasons I suggested this, for simplicity.

However, it is likely that doubling your lead would be just too much for the scooter, both in terms of space and weight. 20ah batteries are not small.

Sorry to add to the overinformation! I wanted to post with the sense that I could feel too much information is bad and unfriendly, and then I just added more. D'oh.

 

[999zip999]

It was meant no to use lipo. But lifepo4. Afterv his sla runs out. Keep it simple.

 

[Victorious1]

People are giving an insane amount of re-information and over-information on this thread. Also, above person^: Equating LiPo with LiPO4? Not the same thing, and really useful for different usage patterns.


I think the longterm consensus with everyone *including the OP* is that he'll be wanting to switch to some lithium. Probably LiPO4 for long life and simplicity/safety. Victorious, you mentioned that you want a reliable seller and decent quality goods, at a fair price, so PING is probably your best bet.


But I also understand that you're going to want to use the lead for a while now.

So, victorious, we haven't talked about your usage pattern that much. At least, I didn't see where you mentioned this scooter was going. Is it the same/similar trip every day? Charging at your end location *really* will be the simplest solution right now, and essential to take care of your batteries just a bit more. Is there any reason why you can't do that, and can we work around it? You could go so far as putting a $150 150watt solar panel at your end location, leaving your friend's lead to charge up there, and charging from that (if there is no outlet at your end location).

As a general reminder, putting batteries in parallel would mean nothing is changed in your charging setup or your usage setup. You can't blow the capacitors or anything like that. Rather than having 48v 20ah you would have 48v 27ah (if you added 12 7ah batteries in parallel). That's one of the reasons I suggested this, for simplicity.

However, it is likely that doubling your lead would be just too much for the scooter, both in terms of space and weight. 20ah batteries are not small.

Sorry to add to the overinformation! I wanted to post with the sense that I could feel too much information is bad and unfriendly, and then I just added more. D'oh.

Since I am retired I do not use my scooter for daily trips back and forth to work, but, my wife uses hers to go back and forth to work on a random basis, 3 - 7 hours a day, 6 kilometer round trip, so it may be possible to have her charge her scooter at work and that would take care of hers hopefully. We like going to a national park locally on the scooters and so far I have not seen any plug in stations with 110 volt outlets, even if they did have the outlets it's a 35 kilometer round trip to this park and the charge time would almost be insignificant for the amount of time we'd spend there, 4 - 5 hours max for a lengthy stay. The rest of the time we'd use the scooters to go to the grocery stores or shopping in town where we live and most likely the longest average round trip would be at most 20 kilometers or so. I am really starting to understand the severe limitations of SLA batteries and will make the switch at the first opportunity I can when these batteries start showing signs of weakness. I would like to be able to make that 35 kilometer trip to the park whenever I feel like without worrying about battery life and charging once I get there, so, I think that what I am asking now is how to increase my battery range with the existing SLA batteries and exactly what will give me the best range in lithium batteries, with the least fuss and maintenance, once I decide to switch up to them?

Thank you so much to everyone for picking your brains, sharing your knowledge and experience and most of all for taking the time to put it in print here for me and everyone to see, it is appreciated.

 

[Joseph C.]

what will give me the best range in lithium batteries, with the least fuss and maintenance, once I decide to switch up to them?

What will give you the best range is a pack with the most amp-hours. You need to measure how much space you have got and see what size of pack will fit in.

There are three options available Ping, A123 and All Cell Lithium NMC. The first two are lithium iron phosphate LiFePO4. The Ping pack is the most cost efficient but not as energy dense as the A123 which is a higher performance cell and more expensive.

The final option, the lithium NMC is the lightest and most energy dense. If you really want the best range that will be the best option. However, it is by far the most expensive and will not charge as quickly as the A123.

All of these lithium chemistries are plug-and-play. They are much safer than lipo and require nothing further than plugging in a charger and connecting it to the battery pack.

 

[999zip999]

There a lot of cheap lifepo4 packs on fleabay. Not for a scooter. V-power, cammy ect. 220 cells spot welded together ect.

 

[wesnewell]

Just read the manual for the Gio. Unfortunately it has very little actual details about the electrical system. Specifically, the controller. You should really find out the max amp draw of the controller before choosing a battery pack. For best performance, you should have 1ah of battery for every amp the controller will draw if you go with a Ping type battery. The rated Ping cycle life is based on a 1C or less amp draw. But if you have 4 20ah sla bats in it now, there should be plenty of room for a 20ah Ping 48v pack. Probably even a 40ah pack. For a 35km round trip you will need about a 10ah pack. The problem with that is you shouldn't draw more than about 15A from it (1.5C). So if the controller draws 30A then you should get at least a 15ah ping.

 

[fivari]

I had a similar problem. I put a self made battery pack in series with the original ones. But I didn't choose to put an additional 10 kg of lead, I made a 6p2s pack of 28650 cells. I made a similar one out of cells of disposed laptop batteries. I have to charge this pack seperatly, but apart from that it is very conveniant.

Left scooter without additional battery - right battery connected in series

 

[Victorious1]

Now that is a very cool and innovative idea!!! Does mixing lead/acid and lithium have any adverse affects?

 

[Victorious1]

I did a little checking with Ping to determine my lithium battery requirements and below is my question in black font and further down is Ping’s reply in blue font. Any opinions or concerns here about their recommendations? Also, how do I answer Ping about their question relevant to peak current draw regarding the shunt mod I made to the controller as I have no idea at all about how to measure the shunt current?

My question to Ping:
Hello, I have a GIO 500/800 watt 48 volt scooter and I would like to upgrade the batteries to increase my range on the bike. I weigh about 300 pounds and I would like to be able to make a 40 kilometer round trip daily on my bike without recharging along the trip. I can currently make a 35 kilometer round trip with the 4 almost new 12 volt 20 ah SLA batteries and it takes about 6 hours to recharge them using the original 2 amp battery charger. I see that you sell LifePO4 batteries but someone told me that Lithium ion nmc batteries would be better for my purpose. I am a technical person so please provide me with enough tech info so that I can make the best decision about batteries for my purpose at the best price and why to go the way you recommend. Also, if I have to modify my bike to provide room for extra batteries I am OK with that as long as I am clearly instructed on how to perform all the wiring hookups necessary. I have also added a shunt to the controller to help with acceleration but I will remove the shunt if it betters the battery system. Please advise.
……………………………………..
Ping’s reply:

Thanks for your email.
Lithium NMC batteries have less size and weight than LiFePO4, because it’s power density is higher. However, Li NMC has much less lifecycles than LiFePO4. Also, Li NMC is not safe. LiFePO4 is very safe. It won’t catch fire or explode if it’s being over-discharged, shorted or over-charged. It will be only swollen in those extreme conditions.
We recommend our 48v25ah pack if you want 40km range, based on the range of the new lead acid batteries.
Here’s the list,
48v25ah pack with BMS and 2a charger 835usd
Shipping cost to the US 180usd
We usually make 48v25ah pack into two parts for safe shipping. Size of each part is around 250x105x150mm. You can put them together like building blocks when getting them. If they cannot fit in the battery compartment, please let me know and we will try to change the size.
The wiring is simple. You just need to hook the red and black discharge wires to the power wires from the controller.
Could you tell me how high the peak current will be after the shunt is added?
Any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Ping

 

[dogman dan]

No adverse effects paralelling lead and lifepo4, except that what you really want is to lose the weight of the lead, not add some lithium to it.

If cash is a real problem though, it can work ok. What ends up happening in practice, is you run the lithium slightly undercharged since the sla charger will typicaly shut of just one or two v less than the lihium charger would.

You asked for specifics. Here they are. This is what I would do if I wanted range on a similar scooter.

Get a 48v 20 ah lifepo4 battery. The best one you could get would be from here. http://www.emissions-free.com/

This man sells A123 batteries that are the best lifepo4 currently avaliable. It doesn't show on the web pages, but ask him about a pack made with the 20 ah pouch cells. It will be expensive, but very very good, and able to dishcarge or charge at higher rates than others.

Or you can get, if it fits the box, and even bigger capacity battery from here. http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-17/48V-30AH-V2.5-LiFePO4/Detail
This size would be good for 30 amps for sure, perhaps even 40 amps. At 25 mph, about 35 miles of range should be possible with 30 ah. That's conservative too, with no wind on the flat maybe even 40 miles.

Get the 5 amp chargers for them.

I would not go to lipo. lipo has more power, but this bike doesn't need it. Lipo wears out faster, and can be more dangerous to charge. Lifepo4 will allow you to basicly plug in and forget it, and go to sleep.

If you want to piggy back some lifepo4 on to your lead you can. You can also paralell connect two lifepo4 packs later, so if you buy a smaller pack now to paralell with your lead, you can still use it to extend range later if you want to.

But I wouldn't do that myself. Dump that weight, and get at least a 20 ah lifepo4 pack now. You'll see how smart it is to lose that weight as soon as you do. Your bike will handle soooo much better.

 

[IBScootn]

It would be nice to know max DC amps being drawn with the controller shunt mod before buying a new battery pack. You can do that by buying a clamp-on $60 DC ampmeter from Sears (most meters just measure AC amps or are very expensive) or plug one of these $23 Turnigy watt meters in series between the batt pack and the controller:http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F10080%5F%5FTurnigy%5F130A%5FWatt%5FMeter%5Fand%5FPower%5FAnalyzer.html

I mounted a Cycle Analyst on my scooter so I always have accurate speed, mileage, volts, amps used, but most importantly AH's used.

 

[Joseph C.]

Lithium NMC batteries have less size and weight than LiFePO4, because it’s power density is higher. However, Li NMC has much less lifecycles than LiFePO4. Also, Li NMC is not safe. LiFePO4 is very safe. It won’t catch fire or explode if it’s being over-discharged, shorted or over-charged. It will be only swollen in those extreme conditions.

That's not true. I think he is confusing NMC with lipo. NMC is thought to be even safer than LiFePO4 and in general it has a longer life cycle, not shorter. Others will chip in but the above is simply not true.

 

[Ariane]

Hi Guys,

First off Lead Acid battery even a 20 Ah gives you in reality just about 10 Ah and less, it's waste of space, and they are heavy also.

The idea of paralleling you actual lead acid with a 7 amps pack of your choice is also a bad idea. The best thing for you need is to build your own 20 Amps 48 Volt pack with Konions batteries drill pack from Doctorbass. those cells are safe, they not need a BMS and they stay balanced.

Doctorbass explain in detail how to builds a pack like this, it cost you allot less than a Ping Pack with more capacity output (10C) and you can buy a power full charger from Ecity to fit your needs.

At the end any 20 Amps battery pack of lithium will double your range instantly so don't bother with the lead acid or with a mix of something, it's waste of time and money and nothing else :wink:

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[wesnewell]

Wow, the marketing stuff is sure being flung around here. You report getting 35km out of your 20ah lead pack and he wants to sell you a 25ah lifepo4 pack for about $1000 shipped. That's just f*cking crazy. A 25ah 48v lifepo4 pack will take you about 3 times farther than your current lead pack. I don't know Ping, but this would make me wonder about doing business with him. In fact, after this, I wouldn't. Here's some cheaper options for lifepo4.

http://www.joyfay.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=battery+bike
http://www.bmsbattery.com/56-48v

Personally I'd use lipo but you already know that.

 

[darkshirikens]

I think your best bet is to just be patient i know the feeling of being stranded using the SLA's but you really dont want to add more weight to your scooter. Lifepo4 battery should be in consideration and be in the future for the simple fact you'll get better range and its lighter weight than the lead acid you carry now and it is the better investment in the long run and you can fit a bigger capacity of battery to get double or triple the range you are getting now if you decide to switch to Lifepo4 battery . Remember lead acid only has like 300 charge and discharge cycles if your lucky vs Lifepo4 has 1000- 2000 cycles of discharge and charge so which would be the better choice and naturally save you grief and money upon using ?

 

[dogman dan]

When guys like joyfay have reputations going back for years for superb customer service and quality of product I'll start recomending them. Till then it's ping and emissions free.

If your shunt mod has that bike really drawing a lot of amps, then a 20 ah pouch cell A123 battery would be a good idea.

 

[Victorious1]

I just checked the price at JoyFay and it wasn't bad, then I checked shipping and it was $378. so I don't think that I'll be buying from them. That's alittle too crazy for me.

I haven't checked amp draw yet of the new shunt (need a meter) but now I'm thinking about building my own 48 volt 40 AH lifepo4 pack to determine how much I can save. Any suggestions on what to look for in individual cells and what I should be considering if I am going to do this all myself as a beginner? I have 2 bikes so I'll most likely buy enough material to build packs for both bikes and then I will build them the same so they can be swapped between bikes if needed. I think that the 40 AH lifepo4 DIY packs are the best way for me to go considering the range I'd like to end up with. This is to fit a GIO 500W+ and I am not adverse to spreading the cells around the bike to make them fit properly if needed, even if I have to fabricate and weld custom brackets to get them all in the bike without messing up the foot area of the bike.

Any tips or suggestions and advice on building my own 48 volt 40 AH lifepo4 pack would be much appreciated or maybe it's actually better to buy a premade pack if I can find the right price. I did run across a term I'm not sure about: BMS Can Upgrade to 3000W 120A, if you need, what exactly does that mean and why does it matter? I think battery maintenance system is understood (maybe?) but what does that mean to upgrade to 3000W 120A? My bike has an 800 watt motor with a 25 amp breaker so does that mean I would need a 120 amp breaker if I was using a 3000 watt motor or can my 800 watt motor pull 3000 watts with my heavy butt on the bike and we are going up a steep hill. I think I need to take a course at battery university because understanding the volumetric efficiency of a supercharged internal combustion engine seems like a piece of cake compared to this electric bike rocket science stuff.

Your replies are absolutely appreciated and most welcomed by this newbie.

 

[Kin]

Heya, not responding to everything there (I'm assuming someone will help you out) but I'm not sure how people figure that LiPO4 will offer 3x the range of Lead. I believe the rational is probably something like this: You will get 2x the range because LiPO4 will actually deliver its capacity, and you will get 50% range increase because of less weight. This, however, is somewhat optimistic. 2x the range increase is itself really sizable though, as well as the better performance of a lighter vehicle.

When people make their own LiPO4 packs, here at endless-sphere, they tend to use higher quality LiPO4 that can deliver more power. Right now I suspect the best option would be A123 20ah pouches or headway cells (which are also large format). They simplify the complexity a lot because you will have fewer cells to parallel.

The a123 pouch cells you can learn more about on the forums here, and there recently was a usa group buy that dropped the price to $23/cell, and you would need 16 for 48v. There might be another group buy, and there might even be time to get into this one [Though i only say this because there have been some paypal hangups, and I don't know if sangesf wants anymore people to deal with/it's a bit of a hassle]. There would be also non-insignificant costs of putting together a system for electrically connecting them all. Headway I don't know much about, but I understand they are still near a similar price point (but not quite as good cells, though good). These cells have only recently become available in low costs. You would also need to buy a BMS, or in the case of a123 consider simply balance charging it every so often.

I'm not sure that 40ah of LiPO4 could actually fit on your bike, or that it's even optimal to have that much. But you would have to look into other build threads probably in the motorcycle section. It could offer you access to the market of lower-power LiPO4 (like thundersky) but i don't think the savings are that extreme anymore there. If cost is a particular concern (and its always for me) then try to keep your Lead Acid alive and maybe you can find a good deal on the forums here for a battery in the next two months. It's not guaranteed possible, though.

A big point however is to figure out how much power is going through your system. That will determine whether you can use the 2C LiPO4 or if you need to exclusively focus on the higher power stuff.

In terms of the BMS, there are downsides to having a BMS allow a lot of power through the system. For one, that could mean the BMS is not doing one of its jobs, if it's allowing so much power leave a battery pack not designed to deliver that. More importantly however would be to address your 3k vs 800 watt point. The answer there is that your bike's controller will still determine how much power enters the motor, not the BMS. The BMS can only limit the leaving of power; it can't force the power to leave.

 

[999zip999]

Do your homework and use your sla till dead. Time is on your side. Put a 20usd in the jar each week and all lose change. Where is that jar ?

 

[dogman dan]

More like double the range, unless he can fit more ah in the same space. Which is typical.

In my case, I went from 12 ah to 20, so my range tripled.

Sorry if I made a misleading statement. Still true that the cycle life could easily be tripled.

 

[wesnewell]

There are several companies that sell larger ah lifepo4 cells with higher C rates. Should find some in this forum. If I planned on switching to lifepo4, I'd find some 10C or higher 10ah cells and build a 16s4p pack out of them and not use a bms for a 40ah pack. BMS's didn't get the term of Battery Murdering Systems for nothing. There are probably some real good ones, but I'm not familiar with any of them enough to know. I do know my brain is a lot smarter than they are, and when it dies, I won't care where I'm stranded.
I'd split the 16s packs into groups of eight so you could charge then in parallel with an 8s charger. Another option would be a 14s pack that you could charge without breaking them apart using a Hyperion 1420i 14s charger. You could make that plug and play with 7s balance leads or a custom 14s connector on the pack to two 7s plus to the charger.

 

[Lock]

I did run across a term I'm not sure about: BMS Can Upgrade to 3000W 120A, if you need, what exactly does that mean and why does it matter?

V1... The bike you have is labeled "500+" only `cause it is supposed to be a real 500 Watt bike (controller) that peaks at 800W discharge (compared to the earlier "500w" Gios that were really only 350W rated controllers that peaked at 500W.) I have read about folks seeing peaks of about 2000W from Motorino 500W controllers, but 800W peaks from low-end 500W controllers is probably more normal. So packs advertised as 3k W discharge capability are useless for you if your controller is only 500W with 800W peak-rated.

In my fantasy world, Dave Mezzi (the guy behind Gio) would be dragged through the streets of Vancouver behind one of his "Gios" (Do you really think that a Gio ebike is how he really rolls himself?)

L0cK