I will be voting for Bernie Sanders

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Expanding on your dot, so here are the demands of the Baltimore situation: Coddle the criminals.

Then there's the demands of the alledged 'Alt Right' situation: STOP coddling the malcontents.

I mentioned the RE:planet bankruptcy in another thread. So the State of California and various cities are dancing in the streets at a few thousand people losing their jobs because that means the GOVERNMENT gets to pocket the recycling money. How could unemployed people matter?
 
Okay, the one week later reaction to the debate is a consensus of Biden, holding firm on number one, winning over whomever, though not impressively. Warren beating Bernie but not much gained or lost there. Harris losing to Gabbard and others to free fall. Booker gaining but not much.

The only also ran getting much out of the debate being Gabbard, but no news on file she gained enough. She was almost but not quite qualified for the next debate, which should be down to one night by then. Awwwwwwww, it was getting kind of interesting watching the desperate, (Gabbard) going after the loutishly entitled. (Harris.) The desperate aren't going to outnumber the louts anymore.
 
Bernie is also a one percenter. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/05/plutocracy-now/

https://www.businessinsider.com/a-message-from-us-rich-plutocrats-to-all-you-little-people-2012-11
 
Dauntless said:
Bernie is also a one percenter. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/05/plutocracy-now/

https://www.businessinsider.com/a-message-from-us-rich-plutocrats-to-all-you-little-people-2012-11

Bahahaha so he has not run every scam I meen business he has started into the ground like Trump?
 
Arlo1 said:
Bahahaha so he has not run every scam I meen business he has started into the ground like Trump?

Actually, yes he did. For real, not just you saying even though Trump's businesses are still there. Name one of Bernies' that is still around. Lucky for Bernie that he discovered politics and didn't have to work anymore.
 
I've encountered quite a few 'Woke AF' folks out there who quite rightly decry the impact of cronyism, nepotism and corruption in government. Taxation is theft, erosion of liberties etc etc. We get that, and I think we can all agree that libertarianism can exist with a left-ish slant and a right-ish slant, where left and right broadly means the difference between 'for the benefit of all' versus 'for the benefit of me'.

My question to these folks is - What do you propose we do to solve this? If government can't be trusted, corporations can't be trusted, organised religion can't be trusted... what is your plan for the good functioning of society? If everyone only cared about their own well-being, the world would be even more frocked than it is today (see tragedy of the commons).

Is more government the answer? No. But better government? Yes, I think it can work. Be it through sortition, or more representative elections, or something better.

Keen to hear from our resident libertarians what they think the solution is. How can societies (in this particular case, the US of A) get on better, hate less, grow and learn more, without ruining the environment for everybody else?
 
by jonescg » Aug 08 2019 12:38am
I've encountered quite a few 'Woke AF' folks out there who quite rightly decry the impact of cronyism, nepotism and corruption in government. Taxation is theft, erosion of liberties etc etc. We get that, and I think we can all agree that libertarianism can exist with a left-ish slant and a right-ish slant, where left and right broadly means the difference between 'for the benefit of all' versus 'for the benefit of me'.

My question to these folks is - What do you propose we do to solve this? If government can't be trusted, corporations can't be trusted, organised religion can't be trusted... what is your plan for the good functioning of society? If everyone only cared about their own well-being, the world would be even more frocked than it is today (see tragedy of the commons).

Is more government the answer? No. But better government? Yes, I think it can work. Be it through sortition, or more representative elections, or something better.

Keen to hear from our resident libertarians what they think the solution is. How can societies (in this particular case, the US of A) get on better, hate less, grow and learn more, without ruining the environment for everybody else?
Not a libertarian any more, was in the early 90's until the far right moved in. Agree with the idea of better government, think that would be more than two parties, more like the UK. I don't like being asked to pick a side and live with whatever they decide to do. I realize that 99% of the people don't have a clue with that said some things are apparent like giving corporations a free ride just to increase profits. USA has always been a mix of Capitalist and Socialist, we need that balance like we need the left and right to work together. I would start with making the law makers do there job and not be dialing for dollars all day long
 
I guess i'm kind of an ex libertarian that turned anarchist, meaning that through a lot of experience of trying to make the government system better, and observing other people fail to do so, i realized it isn't possible.

I have no answers other than the fact that history shows governments across time follow certain paths and have certain incentives. Generally, it performs a couple useful functions, but it also does things like wage war, oppress people, and steal and then misuse money.

The libertarian ideal is to reduce government to only it's basic functions in order to minimize the harmful things that government does. Generally, libertarians think that government should be limited to providing police, clean water, schools, defense, roads, and other very basic things. Their prescription is a minimalist government, which frees citizens and companies to figure out their own solutions to the rest of the problems that government currently solves.

An anarchist believes that government cannot be trusted to simply perform the basic functions we as citizens desire it to do. Because in practice, it has little to no accountability, and also always grows larger by the year, even when you have a constitution as we do, which was intentionally designed to limit it's scope. Never once has a constitution limited government's scope. So an anarchist would say the idea of having government is a fail in itself.

An anarchist does not have a prescription for what to replace government with. It is sort of like how an atheist does not have a moral prescription that serves as a drop-in replacement for what religion prescribes. Atheism closes one door and allows you to finally chose other ideas though. The possibilities of where to go once you've eliminated organized religion are endless. And so that's sort of the idea behind anarchism, is that once the large centralized power magically disappears, you're free to try all sorts of different experiments on how to organize society, on small, medium, or large scales. But the only hard rule is that people have to consent to being part of those societies. Not like now, where being born on a particular patch of land counts as consent to paying taxes to it and doing what it tells you to do.

But anarchism ever occurring is kind of a pipe dream. We know what happens in a power vaccuum - another government forms, and people get suckered into thinking that they can't live without it. Then they hand progressively more control over to said government. Rinse repeat.

So the libertarian and anarchist position is more of a philosophy than anything else. But so is the notion that we can turn around a government that's became corrupt by just voting in the right people. The history books show us few examples where a government apologizes for being bad and hands the keys over :lol:

What usually changes governments is lots of bloodshed, fiscal collapse, or some other catastrophic event. :shock:
 
neptronix said:
I guess i'm kind of an ex libertarian that turned anarchist, meaning that through a lot of experience of trying to make the government system better, and observing other people fail to do so, i realized it isn't possible.

Are corporations any better? I mean Dilbert is real. I really mean that, having both worked for and inside of big corporations. Scott is a libertarian btw.
 
MJSfoto1956 said:
Are corporations any better? I mean Dilbert is real. I really mean that, having both worked for and inside of big corporations. Scott is a libertarian btw.

Some libertarians seem to think so. Although with today's increasing monopolization in various areas, a corporation can readily turn out to be as bad as a government. Except there's one difference.. and that is that is that corporations do not force you to pay for their products at gunpoint, nor do they have this idea of the social contract, which basically means 'you exist, therefore you consent'.

We do not know what an actual free market looks like though. Corporations are technically legal entities created by governments, which have special rights, tax structures, and also get to avoid certain legal liabilities. One has to wonder if such a concept would exist in a real free market system. Because in the current system, it gives us companies like amazon and microsoft and facebook, all who lap up government subsidies and contracts and act as, ultimately, an arm of the government. Could these companies get this large without government's help?
 
neptronix said:
Some libertarians seem to think so.

A simpler answer would bigness is the root cause (not constantly blaming government for everything, which misses the point). Whether big military, big corporations, big religion, or big government, they have the same effect: group think. Oh, and that would include libertarianism (and all "isms" for that matter)! LOL!

Which gets back to Bernie -- the thorn in the side of the Democrat "bigness". As weird as he can be, he could be a refreshing change, for a change.
 
I agree that centralized power is at the root of pretty much all evils. Power needs to be redistributed to smaller players. Both in the corporate world and the government world.

Let me give you guys a pro tip. watch this link as the election evolves. The two who raise the most money tend to win the nominations. There's a pretty good correlation.

This data below is the actual race: who can take the most corporate dollars. You can also look at past elections and who paid what to who on this site.

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race

You can also look up funding sources for a candidate using their lookup, like here:

https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/contributors?id=N00023864

 

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Campaign funding is just the start of a revolving door exercise in buying outcomes.

The old "Got to get in the system before you can change the system" trap. So if you want to bring about a change to how big money can influence elections, you need to get into a position of power... and to get there you need to raise money and do deals... and before you know it, your ability to do what's right is jeopardised by your means to get there, or more importantly, who got you there. Trump promised he'd drain the swamp, but he's effectively set up Swampcorp Inc.
 
Wait, Nep - the US Army is able to spend it's money on a presidential campaign?!?! That for real?
 
jonescg said:
Wait, Nep - the US Army is able to spend it's money on a presidential campaign?!?! That for real?

By it's money you mean ours ( American taxpayers such as myself ).
It's actually for real, lol. It's that much of a shit show.
 
The thing you should stress about is when, oh, the ACLU ignores the laws and does all sorts of campaign mailers. But will you?

I should be giving you guys these tools. Ever heard of the Corruption Perception Index?

https://www.transparency.org/

Oh, I'm reading up on the state of Washington's healthcare giveaway. At least that's the idea they give you.

I wonder if this couple lost their old plan to Obamacare. That sure made costs go up.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/us/elderly-couple-murder-suicide-washington-trnd/index.html
 
Oh look, finally some good news. Bernie says he'll tell you whether UFO's and aliens are REAL or not. (But will he tell us if they're illegal?) I'm sure Bernie talks to UFO's. I'm sure they told him to run for president. Remember how Hillary made this same promise 4 years ago?

Boy, if you find globalization tough, picture specialization. Not just superior technology, think of how much better their schools are. You you really think you can keep your job and compete in THAT marketplace?

But he's only going tell you if he's elected. You didn't elect Hillary so she kept the secret from you. Bernie will do the same. But if you DO elect him, I'm sure he won't just tell you. . . .

. . . .He'll SHOUT!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/us/bernie-sanders-aliens-trnd/index.html
 
So Bernie is gaining ground by NOT attending the Iowa State fair. Dang, CNN is calling Biden the "Gaffe Machine." He's getting it thrown in his face that he once called Obama "Clean." Also, "Articulate." Oh, the darkness in the soul of a man who would say such things. It's not like he told a man in a wheelchair to stand up. I mean he DID tell a man in a wheelchair to stand up, but calling Obama clean and articulate isn't like that. Although I'm sure Obama supporters WANT it to be.

Ah well, remember Maggie? The Iron Lady? Biden thinks she is still the Prime Minister of England. Dang, Biden was first running for president while she was.

But I'm not sure if Biden's calling me smart or stupid when he says "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids." He's also referring to being Vice President during the Parkland shootings, more than a year after he left office. All this as you know who is asking if he's mentally fit to be president. Hey, Reagan was visibly worse when HE was elected president. Remember "93% of all smog is caused by green plants and trees?" I think Biden will be able to somewhat survive his slogan "We choose truth over facts." Excuse me, Steven Cobert. But he'll only win the nomination because Warren, Harris, Booker and yes Sanders, are so weak. WEEEEEEEEAK! And Tulsi Gabbard just doesn't have time to make name enough for herself.

Booker is getting no attention and no "Bump" from the debates. He's gonna have the snowflakes marching again, you just watch. Mayor Pete Buttgieg went to the Wing Ding Dinner. I'm not making this up, any more than I'm making up his name: Butt Gig. That particular candidate.

So Bernie might just be a bit of a relief to people after the Iowa Fair. Unless he finally shows up. . . .
 
Jeff Bez--- er, Washington Post responds to Bernie's latest conspiracy theory.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/politics/bernie-sanders-washington-post/index.html
 
Even Sleazey is turning on Bernie. You might not get a chance to vote for him. But Sleazey himself has a long way to go in equating Trump saying satirically "Amazon Washington Post" and Bernie flat making a paranoid assertion.

But when Sleazey turns on a left winger, that's bad. That's the kind of thing that gets Woodstock cancelled.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/politics/bernie-sanders-washington-post-amazon-jeff-bezos/index.html
 
bernie-staff-dt-600.jpg


Damn, what's it gonna take to get you to talk Bernie? Here's some motivation that ought to get you started.

[youtube]hcrjb5dzhvw[/youtube]
 
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