I will be voting for Bernie Sanders

[liveforphysics]

In Santa Cruz we have some grass roots efforts kicking up.
Lots of bumper stickers and window vinal
Street artists doing custom stencils - on your shirt - on the spot
A Bern van driving around covered in lights with a woman hanging out the window on a bull horn (my fav so far)

College kids are on spring break, but as soon as classes start up again I am sure they will be looking for a distraction.

-methods

About 50% of the houses on my street and all our cars have Bernie stickers and Heather has been handing out Bernie buttons to people in SC too. SC was going to be a Bernie county no matter what anyways though, it's the not-so-hippy places that could use the rallys most.

In the end if you're running you're pro-big-government party and not representing me. At least Bernie isn't exclusively an oil/warmongering corporatist pawn though like the rest.

 

[methods]

There is a massage parlor down town town that is giving away free 50 minute sessions to anyone *not* voting for B.S.



-methods

 

[Dauntless]

Massage parlor? Um, from what I understand about those places, "Happy" is a code word.

In the end if you're running you're pro-big-government party and not representing me.

As you've asked repeatedly, when are they ever REALLY representing you?

Again, "debate" ended before it started. You think anyone is reading more of that? Hey what happened with the voting yesterday again? Oh...

Meanwhile, people who are for the futile opposition just to try to be kewl just have to squirm and post over and over futile remarks of their own, seemingly quieter and quieter. Nothing kewl there.

Everyone loves a graph with no source cited, and no link to verify it.. Lot of words, no substance. lol

What was that? Oh wait, probably not important.

There is no such thing as throwing away a vote.
There is such thing as "accepting the false dichotomy" though.

This country was founded by people who could see past the game as presented.

-methods

So it's the right wingers who put such value on the founding fathers. ("Strict constructionists," etc.) Washington D.C. was placed at what was then considered the easternmost border between the north and south, as the greatest divide the country had was not between right and left but in fact the values difference between those regions. The poor states of the south had gone to work to pay off their war debts. (This being a confederation rather than a republic at the time.) The richer states of the north hadn't put an real effort into it. Now the north was going to vote into the republic the assumption of those war debts. Had the nations capital not been moved from the theoretical center of the north it's possible that the sound would never have ratified the Constitution.

Easy to call the following 70 years a false dichotomy. The Civil War was being fought years before the secession, the majority northern states regularly used the government to try to beat the south into submission. But if it's still better than the alternatives, what's false about it?

And I will always say there is throwing away a vote when you're frivolous about it. Now there's falsity.

 

[Deafcat]

fact: any human being that votes for the Donald is unfit to be called a human being at all. The man is clearly a mindless, vapid, narcissistic twat with no regard for human lives. His absurd responses to derogatory remarks (such as being referred to as a "short-fingered vulgarian") clearly show the underwhelmingly shallow depths of his character. Not only devoid of true backbone, but absolutely no concept of real political policy, and probably one of the worst people for the job. He asks people to attack each other at rallies. Think about that for a moment. Sick.

Bernie on the other hand, has a deep grasp of what it will take to make much needed changes, and is even backed by folks on Wall street who understand that gutting the middle class has crushed the spending power of the American population, which has weakened the economy in comparison to where it should be, with a population in excess of 300 million. I wish Hillary had made it about 8 years ago, then paved the way for Obama and Bernie to follow... that would be best case scenario though. Obama followed by Bernie is the next best arrangement, I think Hillary missed her opportunity (I do not think she is the best candidate at this time).

 

[rborger73]

Massage parlor? Um, from what I understand about those places, "Happy" is a code word.

In the end if you're running you're pro-big-government party and not representing me.

As you've asked repeatedly, when are they ever REALLY representing you?

Again, "debate" ended before it started. You think anyone is reading more of that? Hey what happened with the voting yesterday again? Oh...

Meanwhile, people who are for the futile opposition just to try to be kewl just have to squirm and post over and over futile remarks of their own, seemingly quieter and quieter. Nothing kewl there.

Everyone loves a graph with no source cited, and no link to verify it.. Lot of words, no substance. lol

What was that? Oh wait, probably not important.

There is no such thing as throwing away a vote.
There is such thing as "accepting the false dichotomy" though.

This country was founded by people who could see past the game as presented.

-methods

So it's the right wingers who put such value on the founding fathers. ("Strict constructionists," etc.) Washington D.C. was placed at what was then considered the easternmost border between the north and south, as the greatest divide the country had was not between right and left but in fact the values difference between those regions. The poor states of the south had gone to work to pay off their war debts. (This being a confederation rather than a republic at the time.) The richer states of the north hadn't put an real effort into it. Now the north was going to vote into the republic the assumption of those war debts. Had the nations capital not been moved from the theoretical center of the north it's possible that the sound would never have ratified the Constitution.

Easy to call the following 70 years a false dichotomy. The Civil War was being fought years before the secession, the majority northern states regularly used the government to try to beat the south into submission. But if it's still better than the alternatives, what's false about it?

And I will always say there is throwing away a vote when you're frivolous about it. Now there's falsity.

This all sounds so good to you in your head when you are typing it.

 

[nutnspecial]

Wow Deafcat, I was all in until you mentioned hillary, obama, bernie. Now I'm reaaaalllll doubtfut. Hillary and obama act like whores to failing system, yes? Not that they're bad, I just don't see them even thinking about route causes, and thus potential fixes. You're def informed though, and esp for being an 'alien' :lol: .

Dauntlier, not that I agree with your take on financabilialitium (haha, I can't even pronounce what that is), but that was a good post worthy of reply. What I'm really still hoping for though is fairly similar coherent and straight thoughts on "social/commun/capital/fasc ISM". Gotta define before you bring out the labels, right? Go beyond and below webster and wiki.

Imo they all have vague similarities. None are 'evil' in themselves, but they all have failed and/or are failing, from rome till present?

 

[nutnspecial]

Oh yeah, and with the massage thing. . . . the 60min session is free . . . but for 50min to selected?
I'm struggling on the 10min differential. . .

 

[Deafcat]

Nut, Hillary wasn't always such a sellout... she used to have some genuine political convictions (well as I could tell anyways) which would have been well placed in office at one time. I don't feel the same about her anymore though... Bernie on the other hand, I have faith in, should he make it all the way.

 

[nutnspecial]

Yep, I don't mean to say otherwise, and am impressed with depth of your knowledge/opinion and willingness to share especially since you're from a neighboring country. More voters should be so informed and decisive when it even comes to their own countries lol.

I'm sure they're all people just like you and I, with their convictions and faults. But I'm not impressed with 'breeds' like bill, hillary, or obama, and wouldn't vote for them. Same also for what we see as 'the other side of isle'. I see that they oppose each other on mainly minor or symptomatic issues, but either purposefully skirt or are oblivious to root causes. The root causes make argumentation and division over the choice issues/topics null and a big runaround for them and us, and meanwhile things continue to compound.

Peace and prosperity, happiness, health, responsibility, and safety . . .
Can they be forced by any law? At what cost?

 

[1JohnFoster]

~the Donald ~a ~ twat ...

WHAT?!?!? No, the Donald is a dick. A VERY LARGE ONE. That's his ENTIRE PLATFORM. Look it up.

I'm insulted. I happen to be very fond of twats.

What we are debating here is the FUTURE OF THE WORLD AND HUMANITY. Who get's the Big Button? One bad deal could end it all. So let's not get genital identities confused here. Very important. This is serious.

Deafcat, who are you in real life? .. "City of Bridges".. canada ... a code for the big V? Are you really deaf? Are you really a cat? U aren't a DOG ARE YOU?!!

 

[sharkmobil]

Poor guys. You are so naive in thinking that old "independent" turned socialist will make your life better. How do you like "Change" so far?

Well, it will be just like that, only slightly more limp and less shazaam.

Trump is the only possible change, at least he has done something product-full with his [strike]w[/strike]life :lol:

 

[rborger73]

Poor guys. You are so naive in thinking that old "independent" turned socialist will make your life better. How do you like "Change" so far?

Well, it will be just like that, only slightly more limp and less shazaam.

Trump is the only possible change, at least he has done something product-full with his [strike]w[/strike]life :lol:

I can't even.......... Anyone thinking Trump is a better option than Bernie, is so out of touch with reality, I can't even..

 

[Deafcat]

~the Donald ~a ~ twat ...

WHAT?!?!? No, the Donald is a dick. A VERY LARGE ONE. That's his ENTIRE PLATFORM. Look it up.

I'm insulted. I happen to be very fond of twats.

What we are debating here is the FUTURE OF THE WORLD AND HUMANITY. Who get's the Big Button? One bad deal could end it all. So let's not get genital identities confused here. Very important. This is serious.

Deafcat, who are you in real life? .. "City of Bridges".. canada ... a code for the big V? Are you really deaf? Are you really a cat? U aren't a DOG ARE YOU?!!

ahhaahhah!

yea.. when I say he's a twat, I mean it in the British spelling... lol. in North American, "a huge giant prick with short fingers" is probably the most accurate term.


in the so called "real" life, I'm just a humble engineer and industrial designer from western Canada who likes to travel... the "real" deaf cat is in fact... you guessed it... a cat who is deaf



edit: saw you from Vancity, I hailed from east van for a number of years. Cheers dude!

 

[methods]

ok - we have some back and forth going.

Has anyone ever noticed that we tend to argue over bullshit instead of getting down to our personal beliefs and perspectives on specifics?
I am prepared to take a stance on every major (and minor) topic - and from that - form my ideal priority list for our next leader.

This kind of stuff (not even close to inclusive... just a spew)

National Debt, inflation, housing market, gamblers
War on Drugs, prisons, debt slavery, Military Industrial Complex, endless war
Internet: Privacy, control, bandwidth, the surveillance state, censorship, freedom of speech and expression
Guns, gays, hookers, health insurance, taxes, virtual reality, foreign relations

Imagine if instead of stroking it to our own facebook pages... (or worshiping sports) we all had a SINGLE PARSE-ABLE PAGE that stated our personal stance on every subject we felt was important?

A simple prompt system... like what is found on dating sites... can get you started. Basically when you visit another persons page you can answer all the questions they have. Your answers then land on your page. You can then develop new questions for others to answer. Its an organic way to get the ball rolling.

In the end... The Google can run a magically unbiased algorithm on your answers, the answers of others, demographics, location, socioeconomic status, race, creed, color, sexuality - whatever... and come up with some metrics... or some feedback.... or some more questions... and then some data.

Totally transparent data... like... a giant visual full of dots... where any dot can be clicked on to validate its source.

Then - instead of letting numb-nuts in random states in totally rigged semi-elections pare down the field for us.

Just brainstorming

-methods

 

[Dauntless]

This all sounds so good to you in your head when you are typing it.

Why yes, amazing the sense of awe in you as you're posting that realization. It has to sound this good in your head or it won't sound this good as it's read. One can only wonder at the awful sounds in your head as you post your comments. But that one makes me hopeful that someday you'll realize your mistake in ever falling for Bernie's line. I'm sure it will take awhile, but I'm obviously putting up with you patiently.

fact: any human being that votes for the Donald is unfit to be called a human being at all.

Has anyone ever noticed that we tend to argue over bullshit instead of getting down to our personal beliefs and perspectives on specifics?

Well, yeah, I've sort of made a point of wanting you to join in and be different than these people who are the things they're calling the Donald and such. So even though it's a proven fact The Donald has never told anyone to attack anyone, nor have they, think of how upset that Dumbo there would get if you reminded him that Bernie HAS told his supporters to attack. Dang, he'd probably make a big deal that Bernie DIDN'T tell them to wear the KKK outfits, but are we even sure he hasn't told them to wear them? Odd coincidence that Bernie supporters even HAVE KKK outfits. But they get upset at the mention of that, try to pretend it's not relevant that they can SCARE up all the KKK outfits they want at a moments notice. Hmmmmmm.

Before you say it, actually I DID give personal belief and perspective on a specific. SEVERAL specifics in fact. Including the fact that Bernie supporters never have anything intelligent to say, they're merely brutes trying to threaten and bully. That says much.

I am prepared to take a stance on every major (and minor) topic

Well, from what I can tell, they probably want you to start with your position on the 'twat or dick' issue. Always nearest and dearest to Bernie supporters. Compared to the FACT that any analyst will tell you Trump always speaks of major issues that even STILL these other candidates just skirt rather than say ANYTHING about them. And the Trump supporters also talk directly about them, about how they feel about what he's said, etc. Bernie supporters simply hate, talk of hate, act out of hate, etc.

Darn, did I just nail that beliefs and perspectives on specifics again? I can be just irrepressible sometimes.

Just brainstorming

-methods

Oh, a huge improvement of the "Brainless storming" of these and other Bernie supporters, as you yourself brought up. Good luck trying to get anyone other than me to nail your specified methodology.

 

[nutnspecial]

Are you sure generalizations like that are very helpful, or even that accurate for the criticism D?

Isn't M's suggestion quite opposite and potentially much more productive? Independent discussion of issues outside partisan lines sounds great imo. Great idea. Start by even defining your own list of perceived issues, and I'd say all those are on point.

I'm not sure of the implementation aspect, but that sounds like a great start. Then discussion has to help, along with eventual corresponding actions/adjustment. But it likely begins with independent thought, then group thought in even just defining and mulling over perceived issues.

Anyway, on list: All very valid issues easy to fire off yes/no's or expound on/ add to.
On list/lists: Should it be evident, or should we strive for such, that each of items are identified as causes or symptoms? I guess that would actually be a likely useful eventual group outcome?

 

[Dauntless]

Are you sure generalizations like that are very helpful, or even that accurate for the criticism D?

Um, generalizations like WHAT? I have to assume just to respond if you won't be specific. But yes, the only thing standing in the way of helpful being if they're beyond help. But dead on accurate.

In reality his suggestion doesn't fit neatly into a parlor discussion with this bunch. They are Bernie supporters, afterall. if even you have to suggest it to them, you have your answer to the possibilities of it right there.

Meanwhile, you have not weighed in on the 'twat or dick' controversy that is so capturing the imaginations of these Bernie accolytes. Think of the double entendre of saying "Burning issue."

 

[nutnspecial]

In your very post you continue generalizing any/all 'sanders supporters', and negatively.
The point is, grouping or labelling people into camps is not that helpful, even if they already chose such for themselves. Grouping/labelling people(s) as pussies/assholes/dicks, is very similar and as bad or worse.

 

[grindz145]

It's funny because I can't say I agree with BS about anything other then social issues, but somehow he's still the most likeable candidate.

Gary Johnson is legitimately great, but still a little too cagey on environmental issues, even for a libertarian.

 

[Rodney64]

I have been looking at the presidential lead up over the past few months. Being from Australia it's difficult to understand as our partimenttry party vote for their member is prior to the election.

We also have our election coming up this year too.

 

[1JohnFoster]

....we all had a SINGLE PARSE-ABLE PAGE that stated our personal stance on every subject we felt was important? A simple prompt system...
Basically when you visit another persons page you can answer all the questions they have. Your answers then land on your page ... In the end... The Google can run a magically unbiased algorithm on your answers

A "personal politics page". I really like this idea. I'm searching. Haven't found yet.

So your idea is that this would guide elections?
Or political decisions in real time?
By "we all" you mean every citizen?

OK, the biggy; would this be controlled by the State, or by Google? Or we hope/prefer, some autonomous un-goverened body, sort of like internet theoretically is/was?
I guess there are ways to combat fake pages so special interests/ pacs/ corporations/ illuminati etc don't skew the results. Genetic fingerprinting? Or just the same sort ID security we have now for online accounts. A conflict with privacy is inevitable here. A HUGE one. But personally I think we all have to get over the fact that our privacy is now completely gone, and just be willing to show our opinions nakedly. You put down your cards, I put down mine. At the same time we need to have solidarity to defend the persecuted.

Anything that forces us to slow down, read history, check facts, compare options and discuss at a higher level has to be a good thing.
Every "fact" reference link could be given a "strength" rating by the Google, based on people who have read it, and officially registered their opinion of veracity.
The opinions of veracity themselves could be weighted by the Google's rating of that person's knowledge and intellect.
An internet Elders system.

Maybe there could be some structural way to discourage ego grandstanding; the "aren't I clever" comments like my silly "dick vs twat", and the "I know YOU are but what am I?"' exchanges.

 

[nicobie]

Hahahahahaaa... you mean the great algorithm in the sky?

You talking about God?

 

[Dauntless]

In your very post you continue generalizing any/all 'sanders supporters', and negatively.

That IS the point being made, yes. I've been talking about methods going ahead and being different from Bernie as usual.

The point is, grouping or labelling people into camps is not that helpful, even if they already chose such for themselves. Grouping/labelling people(s) as pussies/assholes/dicks, is very similar and as bad or worse.

The point is that the COMPLAINT about doing it is a way of getting away with it. The nonstop character assassination that Bernie supporters engage in, which is NOT confirmed in real life by the actions of the people they're attacking, precludes any notion of them getting to complain when we point out that, in all honesty, the people doing those bad things are "YOU." Damn!

. . . .fake pages so special interests/ pacs/ corporations/ illuminati etc . . . .

If you read 'All the Presidents' Men' about the ramping up of the Watergate investigation, the newspaper started out dealing with the Nixon people working so hard to skew any sort of survey or overwhelm call in radio shows with their own callers. More than 40 years ago, the Nixon people talked as though the newspaper should never make a big deal of it, it's just how it's done. I don't think the fall of Nixon had much affect on dirty politics, things have scaled up considerably since then.

Oh, there's really no time to read a bunch of those pages. They'd be superficial anyway, a lot of 'That's not what I really meant' time of short answers.

Hahahahahaaa... you mean the great algorithm in the sky?

You talking about God?

+1. . . .

 

[nutnspecial]

That IS the point being made, yes. I've been talking about methods going ahead and being different from Bernie as usual.
The point is that the COMPLAINT about doing it is a way of getting away with it. The nonstop character assassination that Bernie supporters engage in, which is NOT confirmed in real life by the actions of the people they're attacking, precludes any notion of them getting to complain when we point out that, in all honesty, the people doing those bad things are "YOU." Damn!

So because you find/feel/think some sanders supporters are accusing, and wrong, you fire back? I missed where that really helps them see your side of it. So I ask:
Has 'socialist' been fully defined for the subject?
Perhaps a more exact criticism would help?
And do some supporters = all supporters?
And do two wrong's make a right?
So thus my question if generalization for negative criticism is really helpful. Take as you wish.

Additionally, it's disappointing you see negative/uselessness in a grassroots attempt to come together.

At least that's the way I see M's suggestion. Not as some new form of voting or even a big overbearing system of power. Isn't it an idea for more personal involvement at the very most basic level? If people are making or even attempting to make a page (or even a post) with their own definitions of issues and ideas about them, and then seek improvement through objective discussion, it will likely be a productive and constructive use of time and resources.

Then if change is called for in the election process, or in the formats or platforms, or in the end goal or mission of politics itself, it will naturally develop, hopefully from a larger group seeking a better defined good. People will hopefully be more in tune with each other, and will see the change by being it. Starting small by changes in minds and voting, naturally.

 

[methods]

Unique Name or Handle: Name or alias
Contact Vector: Email, Phone, etc

(From that a hash can be created to unique'afie each individual through an automated system which roots out duplicates through clever questions and metadata)


Giant database of questions and answers

1) Do you believe qualified Americans should be able to bare arms (Y,N, comment)

2) Do you believe that freedom of speech is more important than being sensitive to gender, sexuality, race, religion (Y, N, comment)

...

10) Do you think the National Debt should be paid down or written off (Y, N, comment)



So... all these questions organically start to grow on different peoples pages. For an example check out http://www.okcupid.com/home

The next step is to write up a clever script that will parse through all these different questions, group them, and try to cook them down into one question. Example:

1) Would you ever serve in the Military (Y,N, comment)
1a) Have you ever fought for your country (Y,N, comment)
1b) Do you think there should be a Military Industrial Complex (Y,N,comment)
1c) Do you believe we should have an arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction (Y,N,comment)
1d) Should veterans be celebrated or counseled in our society (Y,N, comment)

So... you end up with a bunch of questions and answers that are similar yet... slightly different.
The clever script then comes up (with human help) with Q's and A's that attempt to combine 3 or 5 or 10 slightly different questions into a super set question;

1) Do you believe we can have a future where armies and wars are no longer needed (Y, N, comment)

This process iterates and iterates and iterates.... like a compiler trying too parse all the lines... or an auto-router attempting to get those last few traces.... converging on the concept of 100 questions and answers (or some arbitrary answer).

A process like this could replace all these polling agencies.

An open source software package could be developed and released within a week. No different than downloading uTorrent, bitTorrent, - or - just a web form that lives at a trusted source. There could be MANY... each slightly different... but with some basic agreements on the formatting of data. Huge shuffles of information and mix all these different sources together...

Unique ID's could be tracked... but at any time when a person comes back to answer new questions... superset questions can pare down subset questions

Just brainstorming.
Would be a good class project. 30 young people, 3 months, a totally new tool for debate and bringing relevant subjects to the surface.

Most people dont even know how to start developing their political viewpoint short of settling on this radio show or that comedy-news show or this fervent friend or that parent.

I am interested in organic and unbiased tools to help people develop a stance which we can organize behind and march on behalf.

-methods