I'm new here: Please consider this city

MikeFairbanks

100 kW
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,385
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
I just learned of this website, Endless Sphere. I ordered a new bicycle and am in the process of learning about electric motors and such. My name is Mike. I'm a teacher outside of Atlanta, Georgia, USA.

What I'd really like to share with you is the place in which I live: Peachtree City, Georgia. We are a suburb of Atlanta, GA, USA, and our entire city of 35,000 people was pre-planned with the goal of electric vehicles. To put it simply, every single neighborhood, school, business, industry, church, restaurant, etc. is on a dedicated path system that is exclusive to bicycles, electric golf carts and, of course, pedestrians, skateboarders and the like.

Almost every single family owns an electric golf cart, usually four-seaters, but some own six-seaters (and I even noticed an eight-seater once). It's a lot of fun going all over town in an electric golf cart. We even cruise in the winter because our winters are quite mild for the USA. Our summers are hot, but the city was designed with an emphasis on the environment, so we have many old-growth forests throughout the city that considerably cool us. There is a lot of shade.

My wife and I own a Club Car that was made for recreational use instead of the golf course, and it's a four-seater. Our two kids sit in the back, facing backward, and wear seatbelts. The cart maxes out at about 30kph (about 19mph). It can go about 20 miles on a single charge, and at the end of the day we just plug it in.

Occasionally we have to come to a stop and cross a small residential street, but all the major highways used by cars are by-passed by way of tunnel or dedicated golf cart bridge, so it's an extremely safe way to travel. In the city's 50 years there have only been two fatalities involving golf carts, and both were easily avoidable with a little common sense.

We currently have about 12,000 electric vehicles in our city.

Last note: Possibly due to the fact that there are so many people out and about, we have the lowest crime rate of any city our size in the entire United States. The national crime index calls 100 the average. Washington D.C. is about 400 (which means four times the national average). Our city, Peachtree City, is 15, which is about one-seventh the national average.

We're also fortunate enough to have the best schools in the state.

Check out Peachtree City, GA, USA. Life is better at 19mph as we say.
 
Very interesting - It's hard to believe that a city with a population greater than 5000 would plan around alternative transportation in the gas guzzling US of A.

I looked at the town's wikipedia page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree_City,_Georgia#The_city and found this interesting.
In February 2003, Golf Digest magazine discussed the traffic congestion caused by Peachtree City's golf carts in an article entitled "Golf Cart Gridlock"

:mrgreen:
 
They were full of it with that article. There is not golf cart gridlock at all. That was overhyped nonsense.

There are only two situations in which golf carts have traffic jams: First is the twenty minutes or so after high school lets out, but nobody complains because parents are much happier that their teenagers are driving around town at twenty miles per hour instead of ninety. Second, the Fourth of July when everyone drives in the golf cart parade or watches the town's two-hour parade and then drives home after.

I've personally never, in my five years here, been in a golf cart traffic jam or golf cart accident.
 
Hi Mike,

You live in a fascinating place! Have you seen many electric bikes mingling with the golf carts? How do bikes and carts get along?

Ambrose
 
Very cool, and I noticed panasonic is there as well. I know they are trying to be big players in the electric vehicle game. I would love to a place like that become home to upstart EV companies allowing them to have fertile ground to do r&d while also providing a great market for EVs ad EV supplies. Get the kids modding their golf carts and creating all sorts of other cool light EVs. I also don't think that it is too late to start building and rebuilding our communities in such a fashion. Once electrics start becoming common place having communities built around EV factories just makes sense. Imagine how successful a town in lets say northern california would be if the businesses driving the town were sustainable technology related. They would provide jobs while at the same time enriching the infrastructure and future survival of the town.
 
I haven't seen anyone on an electric bike here. I plan to build one when I scrape up the money. I just ordered a new Trek bike for such a purpose. While I was at the Trek store I tried out their 7200+ that has the bionx system (pedal assist). It was a ton of fun and I took it up a very steep hill without a problem.

The town is eleven miles long by six miles wide, and as mentioned before, every single building (house, school, church, business and even the small industrial parks) are all on the cart path system. Not counting the pathways that are in neighborhoods, the city's system has over 100 miles of paths. They are made of smooth asphalt and range from about eight feet wide to about twelve feet wide. Cars are not allowed on them (and wouldn't really fit on them).

There are a lot of bikes on them (mostly hybrids and such because the real road bikers don't like the occasional rut or root bump in the paths, plus the cart paths have a lot of twists and turns that are too tight for the road bikes).

Joggers, bikes, golf carts. They all exist in harmony. I'll have to show some pictures sometime. It's cool. Heck, even the McDonald's drive throughs have families in golf carts cruising through. I work here in town, so theoretically I could live completely car-free. Right now I drive, but am getting ready to bike it to work again when the weather gets better. I would take the golf cart, but my wife and kids use it all day while I'm at work.

They do allow gas-powered golf carts, but those are rare. They smell bad and make noise. They do offer more power, of course, and a longer range, but most people don't want the hassle of using gas. Each golf cart is registered with the city for ten bucks a year (pretty cheap) and they give you stickers you have to put on the side so that you can be identified by law enforcement.

The cops are very strict. If you're a law-abiding citizen with kids you appreciate it. If you are a teenager or someone who likes to get in trouble, you might not like it here. I've never had a problem, but then I don't drink and drive, use drugs, fight, etc.

I'm not saying this is the greatest place in the world. I'm just saying that for people who like alternative forms of transportation it's great, especially if you can find a job in our city.

PS. Someone mentioned Panasonic. Last I heard they were shutting down our plant here and moving it to Mexico. I think Panasonic was manufacturing car stereos in Peachtree City, but I'm not sure. The recession has hit us, but not too badly. Heck, each Friday night the restaurants are packed.

Oh, and in the summer we have golf-cart drive in movies. Pretty cool.
 
How to bikes/golf carts get along on the paths? With carts able to do 19 to bikes cause a big backup or are the folks on bikes able to keep up? Also is there a speed limit on the golf car paths? Is there a seperate sidewalk for walkers?

I'm just wondering all this stuff going through my head. I'm so used to just riding on the road to get where I Need to get and avoiding a few major roads that are just to awful and too high traffic to ride on. I find cart paths or multi use paths locally to be impossible but they are mostly afterthoughts not designed in like in you location. They are awfully nice after hours when I can whip through the nice pavement at 30mph+ on my recumbent for some sprints though :D
 
How to bikes/golf carts get along on the paths? With carts able to do 19 to bikes cause a big backup or are the folks on bikes able to keep up? Also is there a speed limit on the golf car paths? Is there a seperate sidewalk for walkers?

I'm just wondering all this stuff going through my head it's just so alien it's hard to put into perspective how everything would work. I'm so used to just riding on the road to get where I Need to get and avoiding a few major roads that are just to awful and too high traffic to ride on. I find cart paths or multi use paths locally to be impossible but they are mostly afterthoughts not designed in like in you location. They are awfully nice after hours when I can whip through the nice pavement at 30mph+ on my recumbent for some sprints though. Actually with everyone on the cart path the rides might be free reign for bikes? :twisted:
 
haven't seen anyone on an electric bike here. I plan to build one when I scrape up the money

Take your time and do your homework here. Do you have lots of hills, or is it relatively flat? What the maximum range you need between when you can top off the battery (some can only charge at home, others can top off at work)? What is the top speed you desire (for passing golf carts) and what is you probable cruising speed?

What is you budget for the electric kit parts (without the bike)? Which model of Trek did you order?
 
To answer a couple questions:

1. Yes, everyone gets along well. It's a city ordinance that you have to ring a bell or make some audible noise when coming up behind someone. Most bikes actually do just fine in keeping up with golfcarts because of the twists and turns. The golf carts max out at 19mph and everyone is really friendly. Since you're in the open air (as opposed to hidden behind steel and glass in a car) there isn't road rage. People wave just like boaters on a lake. It's rare that people pass each other without a wave or hello of some kind. People generally aren't in a hurry when they are on the cart paths. Also, a biker in shape can keep up with the golf carts (except on the big hills).

2. Is our city hilly? Yes, but they aren't too bad. There are a couple steep ones here and there, but I'm able to bike up all of them and I'm in fairly poor shape. When I was in better shape while riding my Trek Soho daily I could sprint up the hills pretty quickly. The longest took about two minutes. I really don't know how to judge hills in terms of determining grade. I realized there's a formula for length vs. vertical rise, but that really doesn't help me because I don't know the vertical rise of the hills.

3. My commute is 4.5 miles each way. On the way there I have one minor hill that's slightly steep but only about 200 yards long, another larger hill that's fairly steep and about 500 yards long, and then a small hill that isn't steep which is about 200 yards long. It's about the same on the way back. The rest is flat or slightly downhill. When the new path opens in a year or so it will mostly be flat all the way to work with some slight ups and downs here and there.

I am 6,0 and weigh 195 pounds. I intend to lose about 15 more pounds (I was 212 this past summer, so I'm down 17). I lost weight playing tennis, but then injured my achilles tendon, so now I'm returning to cycling. I bought a Trek Pure which is the same as an Electra Townie. You sit upright and it's more like a cruiser.

Right now I'm looking seriously at the E-bike-kit as recommended by some at this website. HEre's a link: http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/index.php?p=product&id=1&parent=0


This is the setup I'm thinking of getting (It'll be for the front wheel).
Select LiFePO4 Battery:
36v9ah Cylindrical LiFePo4 36v10ah Prismatic LiFePo4 (+$110.00)
Select Power Plug Options:
Anderson Powerpoles 18" Neutrik for E-BikeKit (+$24.00)
Select LiFePO4 Charger:
36v 2.0 Amp - 4.5hrs 36v 3.5 Amp - 2.5hrs (+$30.00)
Select Wheel Size:
26 inch 700c aka28" 20 inch 24 inch
 
With reasonably short hills, smooth roads, 20-mph, and short commutes, I'd guess you will be very satisfied with that kit. The Trek-Pure is something I hadn't heard of, but I like it (just as I like the Electra Townie and Rans Citi)...

With no suspension, you "might" consider a suspended seat-post. The Thudbuster is pricey at around $120, but I hear its the best.

comfort_pure.jpg
 
The Trek I ordered last week will have a suspension seat post on it.

Is there an electric kit you recommend that would work better than the one I mentioned? I want to keep weight to a minimum. No SLAs for me.
 
http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/Information%20Technology/GIS/2009webmap.PDF

Here's the golf cart map, with the green curves indicating the path(s). Interestingly, it does appear to penetrate the entire city.

What happens when a golf cart trail needs to cross the road? Is it a matter of finding an opening in a busy 4-lane road? Or is there a form of regulation and/or convenience and/or safety(Like, say, "islands" akin to "pedestrian islands")?

Interestingly from http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/City Hall/GOLFCART.pdf which governs path use:
The following are strictly prohibited:

Automobiles & trucks (except authorized
maintenance and emergency vehicles)
• Motorcycles, motorized street/trail bikes,
mini-bikes, and mopeds
• Horses
• Go-carts
• Unregistered golf carts, LSMVs and
EPAMDs
• Electric or gasoline powered scooters
• Motorized play vehicles (coaster, scooter,
pocket bike, and any other motorized vehicle
that is not a golf cart, LSMV, EPAMD,
electric bicycle, or motorized wheelchair).
• Any vehicle designed to go faster than 20
mph (except as permitted above)

I wonder what they have against electric scooters and not electric bicycles? :?
 
The only roads that golf carts have to cross are residential roads that are posted as 35mph or less. The major four-lane highways have dedicated bridges and tunnels for the golf carts. It's extremely safe and well-planned. I didn't know this place existed until the year we moved here (2005).

20080104012848!Peachtree_City_Cart_Bridge.jpg


image001.jpg


These tunnels are all over the place to get us under large roads (and some small ones). They're a little sketchy when you're on a bike because teenagers come around the corners fast, so you have to ring your bell a lot while you're in there.

golf-cart-tunnel.jpg
 
Just don't go zipping by any golf carts or pedestrians doing 30mph on an electric bike or it will get quickly outlawed.

Teenagers will inevitably get some electric bikes and they will quickly get outlawed like those powered scooter board things already are.

It's a cool concept, but Golf Cart City would be a bit too perfect, and accompanied by way too many rules for my taste.
 
Hows the job market there? :D Seems like a cool place to live. 8)
 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou....403071,-84.583569&spn=0.050014,0.076818&z=14
Is the right place? I'd think bicycling utopia would have been on googles radar for all those cart paths and them being on there but I don't see any when in cycling mode. Someone should report to them all the bike/cart paths y'all have so it'll have lots of green in there. Course you may get invaded by the weekend riding clubs.
If I Look at dallas where I"m heading tommorow it shows many of the path/trails in green.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...96.764488&spn=0.201348,0.307274&z=12&lci=bike
and some for fort worth
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...-97.35157&spn=0.201561,0.307274&z=12&lci=bike
Maybe they just have that for big cities or something since they don't show the trails in flower mound.. I gotta pester town hall on that it would be lovely to be able to see those trails online.
 
I doubt we'll be invaded by riding clubs. These paths are not really meant for high-speed cycling. There are a lot of twists and turns. Comfort bikes work a lot better and hybrids (I guess comfort bikes are hybrids). I don't ever see road bikes on the paths. There are occasional tree roots that cause bumps in the path, etc. It is much more comfortable on bikes with various kinds of suspension (seat, fork, etc.) and wider, softer tires.
 
Was the link that I posted the right city? I tried zooming in on the satallite view and I couldn't see paths but they could have been obscured by all the trees. I gotta see if there is an office nearby that my company works out of :)
 
Is there an electric kit you recommend that would work better...I want to keep weight to a minimum

If you want to save a few dollars on the initial build, you might get a NiCD triangle pack from ebikes.ca ($240+charger?), slightly heavier than LiFePO4, but MUCH lightersmaller than SLA. Of course, If you can afford the up-front cost, you won't regret getting Lithium.

B3608CdT1-EL_TN.jpg


The direct-drive hubs are near silent, but larger in diameter (highly visible) and heavier. Also they drink amps heavily on hills due to converting too much battery watts to heat on slow-RPM hills. Not a huge problem for your short hills, and short range. As I stated, the direct-drive kit you specified has many satisfied customers.

A geared hub has the drawback of a whining gear noise and the motors hum is louder too from the higher motor RPMs. The tiny gear-set inside allows the motor to spin about 5 times faster than the wheel. This improves hill torque, and also battery efficiency (same amount of watts driving wheel, but fewer watts converted to heat on hills). Geared hubs are also smaller and lighter.

The ebikes.ca geared Ezee hub is pricey, but well-regarded. I have also read good things about the more affordable ampedbikes.com geared hub ($460 with no battery?).

reargear.jpg
 
Dude!! I lived in Peachtree City for a year when I was in 2nd grade. Let me tell you, as a kid it was nonstop fun exploring all the cart paths around town, it didn't matter how far away your friends lived, cuz half the fun was getting there!! That was twenty years ago, so I'm sure the city is much bigger now. The job market was bad then (regeanomics?) so we eventually moved. :cry: As a kid, I never realized how special this place was, but now as an adult and thinking about having my own kids, I realize the benefits of such a planned comunity. Have fun there Mike, I'm surprised there isn't an ebike shop in town. Maybe you could start one.
 
Mike, I didn't see your post earlier, as it wasn't in the bike forum, where i usually frequent. I live in Smyrna, about an hours drive from you. I also have a Trek Pure. I'm very satisfied with the bike and it is very comfortable. It's an easy bike to add a kit on. If you need any help or advice on it, just send me a PM.
 
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