so, this is something that has bugged me in the side of my brain, ever since i first heard of these and began to learn about them and how little we really understand them. I've felt something tugging harder and harder, but it's always just past the corner of my minds eye. The more things i see about the subjects, and the related QM, particle, field, and cosmology stuff, the harder it tugs and the easier it becomes to get glimpses of it.
Now, I don't have maths. My brain doesn't work that way. So, it's probably completely wrong. But, it's a...construct in my head. These words very likely don't get it across correctly, but they're the ones I found so far, left by my brain in the dispenser tray when I woke up a little while back. I've trimmed them down from the book of mess into something normal humans might be able to figure out, instead of just my own messed up weird brain.
It is about what connects everything. Dark Energy, SpaceTime, Quantum Mechanics, Time's Arrow, etc.. All those things we cannot connect together. Intuition is a terrible liar when ti comes to less-than-macro physics, but it isn't always wrong. I'm sure there's lots of other crackpots throwing out theories every day about this, that also just spew words that can't be mathed. And they have as much chance of being right as i do. :lol:
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So...what if spacetime and gravity actually are *not* quantum in nature? What if they really cannot be tied together with QCD/QM?
I suspect that there is simply some interaction method we don't understand that we don't have math for, and our plains-evolved-brains just don't have the stuff to imagine what it is, yet.
personally i keep feeling like i can almost see it, but it always falls just outside my reach and slips away. if i could do math it would probably be worse because I'd be trying to define it instead of just letting it sit there as an image in my head.
If the gravity spacetime thing is not quantum, that means that some things are not reversible. Mathematically most things are time symmetric, but we cannot *actually* do this, the arrow of time only goes one way for anything we do. So...if spacetime being non quantum prevents reversibility, that's what gives us the arrow of time.
Since spacetime and gravity being non quantum means that certain entanglements shouldn't be possible, then perhaps our quantum entanglement language is simply incomplete. We already know *something* is incomplete, and right now mostly it's being posited that it is spacetime/gravity, but it could be something else instead. Or in addition. According to various layman-level explanations, math for all these things does a lot of things that don't actually work in reality because of limitations of reality. Most of them having to do with time, usually going backwards. We've had numerous things where a system of thought works perfectly within specific bounds, but as soon as it is used outside those bounds, some part of it fails to address something, or it actively doesn't work at all. so it would be no surprise whatsoever if this is also true here.
So far, we haven't even decided how many *dimensions* spacetime has, or how they work. :lol: Maybe once we figure that out, we'll *actually* be able to tell if it is quantum or not.
Also, spacetime shouldn't be the stage on which anything happens. There are some mathy things that apparently imply that it still is, but AFAIUI, that was a concept already thrown out by Einstein from newton, where spacetime causes / performs (choose your desired term) gravity. why shouldn't it cause directionality of time too?
Information...non quantum space implies some stuff about information loss, because of the nonreversibiilty of some interactions that way. Info gets scrambled beyond recovery at black holes. You can't take the gravitational energy *or* the occasional particle created out of Hawking's effect that they radiate and turn that back into the patterned matter the BH was made of. That info might exist somewhere, but you cannot recover it without reversing time itself and uncreating the bh. So info already gets "lost" even though we have "rules" against that. So there are "exceptions" built into the rules (if we assume time is non reversible) we already have.
The information still exists in past timelike states, but it does not exist anymore in current or future timelike states in a form that can be used to recreate the original form. just because the math appears to indicate that it should, means that the math itself is incomplete. It is certainly possible that there is an...interference pattern (wrong word) in the bh output / interactions with the universe that implies (wrong word) the things that it is made of. That would be weird, but so is a lot of actual reality vs what we perceive of it.
And...if you had a way to go out there and collect photons, gravity waves, trace back interactions, you could reconstruct many things that existed, in or out of a bh, by all their previous states recorded by interactions with the rest of everything. QM prevents *exact* reconstructions, however because of the random nature of some information's behavior at it's lowest level. And some of that information is too close to the noise floor to collect.
Further: what if there are more time dimensions than we can "see"?
For instance, multiple time dimensions could be "like" the string theory type models with tiny curled up space dimensions that cannot be detected or seen by their nature, cannot be interacted with in ways we can verify currently, etc.
Perhaps, at a small enough scale, these make tiny "causality loops". We cannot measure that, see it, interact with it, *because* it is a causality loop, and cut off from our capabilities. it isn't a causality loop in *our observable time*, it is a different time dimension.
But the *effect of them* means that the energy within them continues to exist always, and increases over *its* time because it is looping on itself. (that is not the right word, and not the right concept, but it is the words I have ATM). The spacetime in *our* time increases over time because the energy in those closed-off loops cause more spacetime to exist, then there are more of these loops making more spacetime, etc. At some point it becomes a runaway process, which is what maths predict, currently.
It looks like we have more "energy" than we really do, the effects of that on large scales show up across the universe as expansion, because that other time loops around at a tiny level and that energy keeps doing work that it should not be able to do. as space gets bigger, there are...more...or more extensive...tiny time loops where that energy keeps doing more work, making more expansion. "work" and "energy" are wrong, but I don't' have another set of words for the concept.
So it isn't energy conservation violation in *our* time, because the energy is actually in the little time, doing things that create more of itself, more of spacetime itself. so it isn't' even energy that is visible to us. that is why we can't detect it, but we can see what it is *doing*. it can't make any sense in our part of the universe, further down the chain, because it isn't *from* that part. but it does affect our geometry in a visible way, by making more of it.
So, these things *are* what we see as spacetime expansion, what we call dark energy, vacuum energy, etc etc. It has to "come from somewhere", but maybe it comes from itself, it's the same primordial energy that existed "always" but it...recirculates, and does the same thing again and again and again, a causality loop by whatever name that spreads because that's just what it does, how it works. it doesn't' violate any thing at our level because it isn't *in* our level.
The arrow of time we see is because that energy "multiplies" from our perspective, that space gets "bigger" from our perspective, and the only thing that allows that to "happen" is a non reversible event order from our perspective. spacetime gets bigger, gets more, and time looks like it goes along a path because it's changing this way.
These little loops probably aren't even time, really, but to us, that is the only concept possible to explain it even casually.
And maybe it does make spacetime foam, and that is what we see in our math.
The fields that exist within spacetime that *are* quantum still do what they do regardless of how spacetime itself expands.
The various things we've observed in spacetime expansion over the universe's history are direct affects of mass / energy in our level "pressing" (wrong word) down on those timelike loops that slow time down within them, and that is why the "energy re-circulation" and "increase' doesn't happen as quickly where mass is, or energy is concentrated. when all the mass is approximately equally distributed or is more energy than mass or some other state exists, the expansion is even and faster, so we get the hyper-expansion at the beginning of the universe, and as mass/energy voids spread it slows down things by letting mass anchor the areas it is more concentrated in.
What i am suggesting, describing with words, is a mechanism whose result we measure is lambda. I just have no way to provide the math by which any of these could be described, verified, or falsified, etc.
Now, aren't you glad I condensed all that first?
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EDIT: forgot this part:
When i go digging for fizzix words, I basically get this, but I am not sure I am using those correctly:
What I am trying to describe isn't a dark-energy substance inside spacetime. It's a deeper, non-quantum substrate process that generates spacetime asymmetrically. The observed expansion of the universe is the macroscopic signature of that process. Because the generation is one-way rather than reversible, the arrow of time isn't a separate law imposed on spacetime; it's the internal appearance of spacetime being produced in a preferred order. Quantum fields can still be quantum within the spacetime that emerges, but spacetime itself would not have to be quantum in the same sense. If that picture is right, it means spacetime isn't quantum in the same sense as the fields inside it, because the substrate process is fundamentally nonreversible. The mechanism may be inferable from its effects in our universe, but the ultimate source feeding that mechanism may be permanently outside observational access.
I am not proposing that *dark energy* causes the arrow of time. I am proposing that a deeper nonreversible process generates spacetime itself, and that what we observe as dark energy, expansion, and time’s arrow are different upper-layer appearances of that same process.
Now, I don't have maths. My brain doesn't work that way. So, it's probably completely wrong. But, it's a...construct in my head. These words very likely don't get it across correctly, but they're the ones I found so far, left by my brain in the dispenser tray when I woke up a little while back. I've trimmed them down from the book of mess into something normal humans might be able to figure out, instead of just my own messed up weird brain.
It is about what connects everything. Dark Energy, SpaceTime, Quantum Mechanics, Time's Arrow, etc.. All those things we cannot connect together. Intuition is a terrible liar when ti comes to less-than-macro physics, but it isn't always wrong. I'm sure there's lots of other crackpots throwing out theories every day about this, that also just spew words that can't be mathed. And they have as much chance of being right as i do. :lol:
**********
So...what if spacetime and gravity actually are *not* quantum in nature? What if they really cannot be tied together with QCD/QM?
I suspect that there is simply some interaction method we don't understand that we don't have math for, and our plains-evolved-brains just don't have the stuff to imagine what it is, yet.
personally i keep feeling like i can almost see it, but it always falls just outside my reach and slips away. if i could do math it would probably be worse because I'd be trying to define it instead of just letting it sit there as an image in my head. If the gravity spacetime thing is not quantum, that means that some things are not reversible. Mathematically most things are time symmetric, but we cannot *actually* do this, the arrow of time only goes one way for anything we do. So...if spacetime being non quantum prevents reversibility, that's what gives us the arrow of time.
Since spacetime and gravity being non quantum means that certain entanglements shouldn't be possible, then perhaps our quantum entanglement language is simply incomplete. We already know *something* is incomplete, and right now mostly it's being posited that it is spacetime/gravity, but it could be something else instead. Or in addition. According to various layman-level explanations, math for all these things does a lot of things that don't actually work in reality because of limitations of reality. Most of them having to do with time, usually going backwards.
We've had numerous things where a system of thought works perfectly within specific bounds, but as soon as it is used outside those bounds, some part of it fails to address something, or it actively doesn't work at all. so it would be no surprise whatsoever if this is also true here. So far, we haven't even decided how many *dimensions* spacetime has, or how they work. :lol: Maybe once we figure that out, we'll *actually* be able to tell if it is quantum or not.
Also, spacetime shouldn't be the stage on which anything happens. There are some mathy things that apparently imply that it still is, but AFAIUI, that was a concept already thrown out by Einstein from newton, where spacetime causes / performs (choose your desired term) gravity. why shouldn't it cause directionality of time too?
Information...non quantum space implies some stuff about information loss, because of the nonreversibiilty of some interactions that way. Info gets scrambled beyond recovery at black holes. You can't take the gravitational energy *or* the occasional particle created out of Hawking's effect that they radiate and turn that back into the patterned matter the BH was made of. That info might exist somewhere, but you cannot recover it without reversing time itself and uncreating the bh. So info already gets "lost" even though we have "rules" against that. So there are "exceptions" built into the rules (if we assume time is non reversible) we already have.
The information still exists in past timelike states, but it does not exist anymore in current or future timelike states in a form that can be used to recreate the original form. just because the math appears to indicate that it should, means that the math itself is incomplete. It is certainly possible that there is an...interference pattern (wrong word) in the bh output / interactions with the universe that implies (wrong word) the things that it is made of. That would be weird, but so is a lot of actual reality vs what we perceive of it.
And...if you had a way to go out there and collect photons, gravity waves, trace back interactions, you could reconstruct many things that existed, in or out of a bh, by all their previous states recorded by interactions with the rest of everything. QM prevents *exact* reconstructions, however because of the random nature of some information's behavior at it's lowest level. And some of that information is too close to the noise floor to collect.
Further: what if there are more time dimensions than we can "see"?
For instance, multiple time dimensions could be "like" the string theory type models with tiny curled up space dimensions that cannot be detected or seen by their nature, cannot be interacted with in ways we can verify currently, etc.
Perhaps, at a small enough scale, these make tiny "causality loops". We cannot measure that, see it, interact with it, *because* it is a causality loop, and cut off from our capabilities. it isn't a causality loop in *our observable time*, it is a different time dimension.
But the *effect of them* means that the energy within them continues to exist always, and increases over *its* time because it is looping on itself. (that is not the right word, and not the right concept, but it is the words I have ATM). The spacetime in *our* time increases over time because the energy in those closed-off loops cause more spacetime to exist, then there are more of these loops making more spacetime, etc. At some point it becomes a runaway process, which is what maths predict, currently.
It looks like we have more "energy" than we really do, the effects of that on large scales show up across the universe as expansion, because that other time loops around at a tiny level and that energy keeps doing work that it should not be able to do. as space gets bigger, there are...more...or more extensive...tiny time loops where that energy keeps doing more work, making more expansion. "work" and "energy" are wrong, but I don't' have another set of words for the concept.
So it isn't energy conservation violation in *our* time, because the energy is actually in the little time, doing things that create more of itself, more of spacetime itself. so it isn't' even energy that is visible to us. that is why we can't detect it, but we can see what it is *doing*. it can't make any sense in our part of the universe, further down the chain, because it isn't *from* that part. but it does affect our geometry in a visible way, by making more of it.
So, these things *are* what we see as spacetime expansion, what we call dark energy, vacuum energy, etc etc. It has to "come from somewhere", but maybe it comes from itself, it's the same primordial energy that existed "always" but it...recirculates, and does the same thing again and again and again, a causality loop by whatever name that spreads because that's just what it does, how it works. it doesn't' violate any thing at our level because it isn't *in* our level.
The arrow of time we see is because that energy "multiplies" from our perspective, that space gets "bigger" from our perspective, and the only thing that allows that to "happen" is a non reversible event order from our perspective. spacetime gets bigger, gets more, and time looks like it goes along a path because it's changing this way.
These little loops probably aren't even time, really, but to us, that is the only concept possible to explain it even casually.
And maybe it does make spacetime foam, and that is what we see in our math.
The fields that exist within spacetime that *are* quantum still do what they do regardless of how spacetime itself expands.
The various things we've observed in spacetime expansion over the universe's history are direct affects of mass / energy in our level "pressing" (wrong word) down on those timelike loops that slow time down within them, and that is why the "energy re-circulation" and "increase' doesn't happen as quickly where mass is, or energy is concentrated. when all the mass is approximately equally distributed or is more energy than mass or some other state exists, the expansion is even and faster, so we get the hyper-expansion at the beginning of the universe, and as mass/energy voids spread it slows down things by letting mass anchor the areas it is more concentrated in.
What i am suggesting, describing with words, is a mechanism whose result we measure is lambda. I just have no way to provide the math by which any of these could be described, verified, or falsified, etc.
Now, aren't you glad I condensed all that first?
****************
EDIT: forgot this part:
When i go digging for fizzix words, I basically get this, but I am not sure I am using those correctly:
What I am trying to describe isn't a dark-energy substance inside spacetime. It's a deeper, non-quantum substrate process that generates spacetime asymmetrically. The observed expansion of the universe is the macroscopic signature of that process. Because the generation is one-way rather than reversible, the arrow of time isn't a separate law imposed on spacetime; it's the internal appearance of spacetime being produced in a preferred order. Quantum fields can still be quantum within the spacetime that emerges, but spacetime itself would not have to be quantum in the same sense. If that picture is right, it means spacetime isn't quantum in the same sense as the fields inside it, because the substrate process is fundamentally nonreversible. The mechanism may be inferable from its effects in our universe, but the ultimate source feeding that mechanism may be permanently outside observational access.
I am not proposing that *dark energy* causes the arrow of time. I am proposing that a deeper nonreversible process generates spacetime itself, and that what we observe as dark energy, expansion, and time’s arrow are different upper-layer appearances of that same process.
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