I just started at a Motorcycle wrecker 2 days ago to help out while another guy is away sick and I get through the slow season! I walk past a rm80 with no engine like 20 times a day and I look at alot of great bikes that would be awesome for ebike projects including a ysr80 rolling chassis! Oh and the engines aren't usualy "noisy" lol they usualy lock solid at top speed and will not turn anymore sometimes peices sticking out of let letting all the fluids out!ZapPat said:
Instant Start 18 fet Infineon Boards are here...
- Thread starter methods
- Start date
A little while ago I posted a theory in the "New mini monster" 6 fet infineon thread.
My theory was that you could increase the max current limit by telling your 18 fet controller that it was a 6 fet controller.
Well I just tried it. I loaded up Parameter Designer and set the board type to EB206, hit the transmit button and plugged it in.
I can now confirm that it does exactly as I would expect, I effectively had no current limiting whatsoever.
I've changed it back now because it was a bit scary having that much power.
My theory was that you could increase the max current limit by telling your 18 fet controller that it was a 6 fet controller.
Well I just tried it. I loaded up Parameter Designer and set the board type to EB206, hit the transmit button and plugged it in.
I can now confirm that it does exactly as I would expect, I effectively had no current limiting whatsoever.
I've changed it back now because it was a bit scary having that much power.
methods
1 GW
Even in 18 fet mode an 18 fet with a 250uOhm shunt does not have enough limiting.
Further removing the current limit will surely lead to overheated motors.
Do as you like though
I am not worried about the 18 fet at all :wink:
Mike -> Nice find! I missed that in the Mini thread. Thanks for taking the risk of bricking your controller for us :lol: If you get a chance to play with it some more please do. I am wondering if it changes any of the gate drive timing.
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Further removing the current limit will surely lead to overheated motors.
Do as you like though
I am not worried about the 18 fet at all :wink:
Mike -> Nice find! I missed that in the Mini thread. Thanks for taking the risk of bricking your controller for us :lol: If you get a chance to play with it some more please do. I am wondering if it changes any of the gate drive timing.
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Methy, I only tried because I'm still waiting for my 250u shunt. I have soldered the existing shunt down to about half what it was and that makes the bike powerful enough for now so I wont mess with the shunt again until I get the correct one and my CA.
It would certainly explain why my controller was so much more powerful before I programmed it. The microprocessors probably come out of the factory thinking they are in EB806's.
It would certainly explain why my controller was so much more powerful before I programmed it. The microprocessors probably come out of the factory thinking they are in EB806's.
Bruno, I set the board type to EB206 and the current limits to max. You are already using the 250u shunt so you shouldn't need to do this. But if you do I would suggest you start with a low current limit. At maximum current it was really scary, I didn't even make it out of my driveway before spinning the rear end out and lying the bike on the ground. 
No real damage done though
No real damage done though
methods
1 GW
I cant wait until this turns into the thread about spun axles, burnt windings, and a graveyard of dead motors
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methods
1 GW
There is no setting that will allow you to do a burnout with an X5...
Only way you can do that is to run a 5306 in a 20" wheel at 100V and lean forward.
Your controller has the ability to deliver the maximum amount of current that the motor can even take - this current can be calculated as:
Ohms Law: V / R = I
Supply Voltage / Total resistance of Phase wire + motor coil resistance
So you dont need to turn up the current anymore. The limitation you are experiencing is due to the gearing of your bicycle - this gearing is driven by the winding of your motor (5304, 5305, 5306), the diameter of your wheel (16", 20", 24", 26"), and the voltage you are running (48V, 72V, 100V)
The maximum amount of usable current that you can push through an X5 is around 100A
Anything more than 100A is just getting turned directly into heat:
Heat = Power
Power = I * I * R
The heat goes up with the square of current.
This ties into your efficiency... dumping loads of current into the motor will just make it hot and slow you down
Oddly... Turning DOWN your current limit can sometimes make your bike *faster*
Anyhow - It is good that you have double-size phase wires but that wont help your motor.
Inside your motor the wire gauge is somewhere between 12AWG and 13AWG I suspect.
The only thing that stops you from melting those internal wires is the RPM of the motor and the back EMF that this creates..... But that is another story.
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Only way you can do that is to run a 5306 in a 20" wheel at 100V and lean forward.
Your controller has the ability to deliver the maximum amount of current that the motor can even take - this current can be calculated as:
Ohms Law: V / R = I
Supply Voltage / Total resistance of Phase wire + motor coil resistance
So you dont need to turn up the current anymore. The limitation you are experiencing is due to the gearing of your bicycle - this gearing is driven by the winding of your motor (5304, 5305, 5306), the diameter of your wheel (16", 20", 24", 26"), and the voltage you are running (48V, 72V, 100V)
The maximum amount of usable current that you can push through an X5 is around 100A
Anything more than 100A is just getting turned directly into heat:
Heat = Power
Power = I * I * R
The heat goes up with the square of current.
This ties into your efficiency... dumping loads of current into the motor will just make it hot and slow you down
Oddly... Turning DOWN your current limit can sometimes make your bike *faster*
Anyhow - It is good that you have double-size phase wires but that wont help your motor.
Inside your motor the wire gauge is somewhere between 12AWG and 13AWG I suspect.
The only thing that stops you from melting those internal wires is the RPM of the motor and the back EMF that this creates..... But that is another story.
-methods
John in CR
100 TW
geoff57 said:
I'm trying to set up to be able to program the controller.
I downloaded the 2 compressed versions of the software and tried to extract both as ACE and Zip and get error message "Component 'ComDig32.OCX' or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid"
What do I do now? Do I need the controller connected at launch?
Thanks,
John
John in CR
100 TW
Mike1 said:
Thanks Mike1, but no joy and I also tried service pack 6 from the page previous to your link as well. How I've never tossed a computer through a window is beyond me, though some laser printers came very close to being ejected from the 45th floor back in the 80's before everything became so easy.
I'll try one of the laptops. Hopefully that will work.
John
methods
1 GW
Try installing the old software first.
On my computer I already had the old-school software installed and it went like butter.
Worth a try.
You can find it in the Technical Reference Section
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On my computer I already had the old-school software installed and it went like butter.
Worth a try.
You can find it in the Technical Reference Section
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John in CR
100 TW
The proper fix is to go here http://www.boletrice.com/missingfiles.html and follow those instructions for that error. Now I'm up and running. Why I didn't google first is beyond me. I always google first. Thanks for the help.
John
John
methods
1 GW
Google = Bad Ass
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gwhy!
100 kW
What is the limiting factor for a higher current ? is it just the beefing up the tracks on these boards I'm about to start playing around with a 6 fet but thing about making a slave board to mount all the high current stuff on I will not require high voltage only 60v but im looking at about 120A continuous. Wasn't Luke doing something like this a while back ? . Just thought I would ask what possible problems I may run in to if its already been looked at.
methods
1 GW
Pretty much the traces, cabling, and heat sink
I would look to do 10AWG traces and 8AWG cables
You can do the math on paralleling up the 4110's in groups of 3 - 120A continuous should be absolutely no problem at all with good cooling.
That is all that is there - the traces, cables, fets, heatsink and of course the shunt. Dont run anything larger than 250uOhms. I would suggest 200uOhms.
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I would look to do 10AWG traces and 8AWG cables
You can do the math on paralleling up the 4110's in groups of 3 - 120A continuous should be absolutely no problem at all with good cooling.
That is all that is there - the traces, cables, fets, heatsink and of course the shunt. Dont run anything larger than 250uOhms. I would suggest 200uOhms.
-methods
gwhy!
100 kW
methods said:
Thanks methy,
looks like its game on then
methods
1 GW
You may want to talk to someone smarter than me about the finer points of mosfet driving...
Extending the signals off-board may bring the gate capacitance and wire inductance into the equation.
Not my area of expertise... At work I am lucky - I do the fun part of the job and the "old dogs" handle the black magic for me.
As I understand it the drive circuit on the board is pretty good so you may be just fine.
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Extending the signals off-board may bring the gate capacitance and wire inductance into the equation.
Not my area of expertise... At work I am lucky - I do the fun part of the job and the "old dogs" handle the black magic for me.
As I understand it the drive circuit on the board is pretty good so you may be just fine.
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gwhy!
100 kW
methods said:
From the few test I done last night it looks like it will be fine I have not done anything yet with paralleling the fets so that will be the real test.
steveo
100 kW
Hey everyone,
I have 2 of these controllers
one with a shunt of .1840mohms, and one with a .1400mohms. neither has let me down. Keep in mind that then internals of my boards have 8AWG for traces ...
-steveo
I have 2 of these controllers
one with a shunt of .1840mohms, and one with a .1400mohms. neither has let me down
. Keep in mind that then internals of my boards have 8AWG for traces ...-steveo
methods
1 GW
What sort of peak currents are you capturing?
I am seeing >300A peaks
If you have that current limit wide open and you are running an X5 and near 100V I would imagine you could develop insane peaks...
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I am seeing >300A peaks
If you have that current limit wide open and you are running an X5 and near 100V I would imagine you could develop insane peaks...
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John in CR
100 TW
I'm just putting the finishing touches on ventilating my big hubs, but I think the X5 has a bit more copper, so I probably can't get full action out of the controller. I'm trying to figure out how to combine 2 identical motors into one, so I can use this single super controller to it's full potential.
John
John
methods
1 GW
I dont think he is doing X5's - he is working on a similar hub I believe.
Example of X5 vent
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Example of X5 vent
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John in CR
100 TW
bikeraider said:
It's not an X5, though similar in performance, and the ventilation strategy should apply to any direct drive hub. I have some more work to do, but I posted a pic of the exhaust side cover in the "Air Cooling" thread.
John
John in CR
100 TW
The silver one. The black is for a geared hub.
