Doctorbass
100 GW
Everybody know that the real interest here is all about $$$.. and not been enviro friendly...
[youtube]XCspL7m1siI[/youtube]
Doc
JohnMcCain Offer 300 000 000$ for new efficient car battery
- Thread starter Doctorbass
- Start date
Everybody know that the real interest here is all about $$$.. and not been enviro friendly...
[youtube]XCspL7m1siI[/youtube]
Doc
ZapPat
10 kW
Sounds like greenwashing... He's probably afraid that Obhama might actually win! I just wish we would really see a loss of power of the millitary-industrial complex that's been building up since WW2. John 
McCain is just the new embodyment of this huge stiched together machine that is... BIG MONEY!
And who's gonna get the 3 million? I'm betting he already knows who will get it, one of his corporate buddies likely. IF even he has any intention of doing it. You guys are right, it's politics, global politics nowadays!
I really wonder if Obhama would live up to his good rep anyways?
Ciao,
Pat
McCain is just the new embodyment of this huge stiched together machine that is... BIG MONEY!And who's gonna get the 3 million? I'm betting he already knows who will get it, one of his corporate buddies likely. IF even he has any intention of doing it. You guys are right, it's politics, global politics nowadays!
I really wonder if Obhama would live up to his good rep anyways?
Ciao,
Pat
hornsailor
10 µW
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2008
- Messages
- 5
John McCain has sooo much more credentials than Obama that it's a joke. Watch Obabma as he follows in John McCains wake. McCain makes policy and Obama makes speeches!
ZapPat
10 kW
hornsailor said:
How can someone who likes ebikes also like what McCain represents?
What do you define as "credentials", anyways? If you mean "manipulative power", or "[industry funded]money", "war oriented" or any other typical high ranking politian's qualifications, then you are right. Else try to make an effort to learn about how our society really has been formed since the industrial revolution. And now one form it takes is big oil, centralised everything, and ultimatly leads to a lack of regard for the humanity's home and the future generations of our own kin.
With much respect,
Pat
Rassy
1 MW
I agree that McCains offer is probably more political than not, but I find it amusing that once again our canadian friends weigh in to blast our president and president to be (hopefully). I think it's great that McCain is giving attention to the need to move forward with alternative energy, and I also hope he pushes forward with more oil exploration within our own boundries.
Since this thread is about politics and not batteries it probably does not belong here anyway, IMHO, let alone in the forum in general.
Since this thread is about politics and not batteries it probably does not belong here anyway, IMHO, let alone in the forum in general.
EMF
100 kW
Agreed on the politics, but I have to mention my feelings on politicians in general....Rassy said:
"Please don't tell my mother I'm a politician...she thinks I play piano in a brothel".
Edit: Removed political tirade...
ZapPat
10 kW
Rassy said:
Why did you post here then? :lol:
Just forget it, since you don't seem to get the wider picture I was trying to convey. Plus as you may (or may not) have noted I was talking about politians in general. BTW, we have the same kind of garden variety turd as prime minister (aka pres) right here in Canada right now too!
Ciao!
Pat
TylerDurden
100 GW
Where's the 300M in tax credits for riders of public transport?
God forbid we should give some hardworking citizens a break.
God forbid we should give some hardworking citizens a break.
jerryt
100 W
ZapPat a little research shows that McCain's the only horse in the race supporting battery tech.
Barack Obama Democrat
* Calls for 60 billion gallons of cellulosic biofuels to be produced in the U.S. each year by 2030.
* Supports coal-to-liquid fuels as long as they emit 20 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions over their life cycle than conventional fuels.
* Supports nuclear power.
* Wants car fuel economy to reach 40 mpg and light trucks to 32 mpg by 2020.
* Supports making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030.
* Calls for 30 percent of the federal government's electricity to come from renewable sources by 2020.
*Proposes investing $150 billion over 10 years in R&D for renewable energy, biofuels, efficiency and other clean technologies.
John McCain Republican
* Supports a cap-and-trade system that would gradually decrease emissions to about 30 percent of 2004 levels by 2050.
* Supports coal energy that doesn't emit excessive" greenhouse gases.
* Does not support drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
* In 2002, sponsored legislation that would have raised fuel-economy standards to 36 mpg by 2016, now says he's open to negotiation for dramatic improvement and no loopholes" in vehicle economies.
* Would establish a national program to support affordable battery-powered vehicles to cut oil imports.
* Acknowledges biofuels' potential as an alternative to oil, but doesn't support broad subsidies of alternative fuels or tariffs that would restrict market competition.
Barack Obama Democrat
* Calls for 60 billion gallons of cellulosic biofuels to be produced in the U.S. each year by 2030.
* Supports coal-to-liquid fuels as long as they emit 20 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions over their life cycle than conventional fuels.
* Supports nuclear power.
* Wants car fuel economy to reach 40 mpg and light trucks to 32 mpg by 2020.
* Supports making all new buildings carbon neutral, or produce zero emissions, by 2030.
* Calls for 30 percent of the federal government's electricity to come from renewable sources by 2020.
*Proposes investing $150 billion over 10 years in R&D for renewable energy, biofuels, efficiency and other clean technologies.
John McCain Republican
* Supports a cap-and-trade system that would gradually decrease emissions to about 30 percent of 2004 levels by 2050.
* Supports coal energy that doesn't emit excessive" greenhouse gases.
* Does not support drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
* In 2002, sponsored legislation that would have raised fuel-economy standards to 36 mpg by 2016, now says he's open to negotiation for dramatic improvement and no loopholes" in vehicle economies.
* Would establish a national program to support affordable battery-powered vehicles to cut oil imports.
* Acknowledges biofuels' potential as an alternative to oil, but doesn't support broad subsidies of alternative fuels or tariffs that would restrict market competition.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Batteries fall into the $150B bin. No way around it.jerryt said:
ZapPat
10 kW
300$M is but a small fraction of 150$B (0.05% actually), so good point TD.
One has to remember these are politicians talking, so expect mostly hot air. Remember the 70's? Energy crisis? High oil prices? Sounds familliar, no? Some guy called Jimmy Carter gave hope to all the renewable energy crowd back then. Of course once in power things turned out differently. All the money that everyone expected to go into small RE research to help the US get out of excessive energy dependancy almost all went into new coal and nuclear plants instead. This kept energy production nice and centralised, whereas RE was going more towards smaller scale production - thus towards more power to individual citizens. Not good if you are GE or the Lockheeds or other big boys who had already been steering the ecomony ever increasingly to their interests for dozens of years by then. They were very nervous at the potential thought of loosing power, so acted as to keep that hold... and came out the winners for the time being. We have seen the government and industrial leaders become one. I mean Jimmy actually moved Charles Duncan from the defense department over to being head of the energy dept. Read Duncan as in the Duncan food empire, formerly president of coca-cola, and having major interests in US oil and other energy holdings. Many many examples like this can be seen all the time as big heads get shifted between positions of power in various industries and the related governmental agencies that are supposted to be keeping an eye on them.
So now they're nervous again, but this time they have no choice but to embrace RE's. But they are of course wanting to do it their way as to keep the big easy money coming into their pockets.
If only most citizens could see the bigger picture taking place... I know the 0.1% who now own at least 50% of the things on the planet do!
I must add that we as people are very much addicted to the excessive energy that fossil fuels have been providing us with, and that is is soooooo hard to spontaneously change lifestyles for humans that we'll likely just sit back and continue using oil, and watch energy prices go up until we are all so energy poor that we will be biking to work at the end of it anyways.
BTW, who do you think is pulling the strings as for oil prices anyways? The *huge* profits generated by the recent price hikes are going into some awfully full pockets, that's for sure!
Just my2centsworth,
Pat
One has to remember these are politicians talking, so expect mostly hot air. Remember the 70's? Energy crisis? High oil prices? Sounds familliar, no? Some guy called Jimmy Carter gave hope to all the renewable energy crowd back then. Of course once in power things turned out differently. All the money that everyone expected to go into small RE research to help the US get out of excessive energy dependancy almost all went into new coal and nuclear plants instead. This kept energy production nice and centralised, whereas RE was going more towards smaller scale production - thus towards more power to individual citizens. Not good if you are GE or the Lockheeds or other big boys who had already been steering the ecomony ever increasingly to their interests for dozens of years by then. They were very nervous at the potential thought of loosing power, so acted as to keep that hold... and came out the winners for the time being. We have seen the government and industrial leaders become one. I mean Jimmy actually moved Charles Duncan from the defense department over to being head of the energy dept. Read Duncan as in the Duncan food empire, formerly president of coca-cola, and having major interests in US oil and other energy holdings. Many many examples like this can be seen all the time as big heads get shifted between positions of power in various industries and the related governmental agencies that are supposted to be keeping an eye on them.
So now they're nervous again, but this time they have no choice but to embrace RE's. But they are of course wanting to do it their way as to keep the big easy money coming into their pockets.
If only most citizens could see the bigger picture taking place... I know the 0.1% who now own at least 50% of the things on the planet do!
I must add that we as people are very much addicted to the excessive energy that fossil fuels have been providing us with, and that is is soooooo hard to spontaneously change lifestyles for humans that we'll likely just sit back and continue using oil, and watch energy prices go up until we are all so energy poor that we will be biking to work at the end of it anyways.
BTW, who do you think is pulling the strings as for oil prices anyways? The *huge* profits generated by the recent price hikes are going into some awfully full pockets, that's for sure!
Just my2centsworth,
Pat
paultrafalgar
10 kW
Don't argue about which candidate will bring about the needed revolution. The current gang of Neo-Cons will start WW3 before January 2009, most probably between November 2008 and January 2009.
EMF
100 kW
The revolution should come from the people and I guess those days are over. I mean- how bad can it get and still no response from our masses out in the streets?
Maybe the Internet has caused folks to find a way to vent and then they lose the urge to get off their asses and demonstrate like the 70's. You can put something on a web page and then you feel like you did something. But, you really didn't- you are just preaching to the choir.
It could also be though, that one more thing is needed to get people motivated. For instance, we have a "volunteer" army right now. I say volunteer, cause if you are poor, 17 and in Flint Michigan...you are probably going to volunteer.
If we invade Iran- which looks like this is not entirely out of the question- they might try to start drafting folks, because the military is stretched thin. This is what pissed off people back during the Vietnam "police action". The politicians know this and are really trying to avoid such an action. But, if the oil companies push hard enough and kick them enough money, they will do about anything. We've seen this already in Iraq and at the pumps.
The contractors are probably already drooling over the possibility of projects such as building a 680 million dollar "embassy" in Iran, like the one they just finished in Iraq. No need to ask the taxpayer- just do it!
Maybe the Internet has caused folks to find a way to vent and then they lose the urge to get off their asses and demonstrate like the 70's. You can put something on a web page and then you feel like you did something. But, you really didn't- you are just preaching to the choir.
It could also be though, that one more thing is needed to get people motivated. For instance, we have a "volunteer" army right now. I say volunteer, cause if you are poor, 17 and in Flint Michigan...you are probably going to volunteer.
If we invade Iran- which looks like this is not entirely out of the question- they might try to start drafting folks, because the military is stretched thin. This is what pissed off people back during the Vietnam "police action". The politicians know this and are really trying to avoid such an action. But, if the oil companies push hard enough and kick them enough money, they will do about anything. We've seen this already in Iraq and at the pumps.
The contractors are probably already drooling over the possibility of projects such as building a 680 million dollar "embassy" in Iran, like the one they just finished in Iraq. No need to ask the taxpayer- just do it!
ZapPat
10 kW
I hear ya EMF!
As for the internet and it's calming of the people I'm not so sure though, since there are a number of other mechanisms also in society that "appease the masses". If you think of the 70's, you might have thought that TV would have kept people in check. I mean TV can, and very often does, present us with any almost idea that anyone with enough money can think of. If seen enough times on enough occasions many of us start thinking of this idea of theirs as a "fact" (think weapons of mass destruction in irak for just one). Of course the net has this same danger, but it is by-directional, so we all can diffuse. Of course corps can diffuse more than individuals to some extent (adds, laws,...), but it still seems to me that the internet is less of a controlable medium than TV is. As for the venting feature likes blogs or similar being a calming thing, I'm divided. I mean, if you think of that same "preaching to the converted" happening between people vocaly, is there a difference in venting between the mediums?
Personnaly, I think some things work in waves, kinda like an irregular sine wave. Action-reaction ripples traveling around, and sometimes the peaks can build up quite a bit before prumiting back towards the other state. And so many waves, big and small, long and short, all interracting together make for a very complicated system to understand! I feel like a cell trying to understand the body it makes up sometimes!
I must say this post is off topic a bit, sorry! To make things a bit more relevant, let me add that oil has had a huge negative impact on battery tech for the last 100 years or so, and oil is why McCain wants to fight. Apparently Obama does not support the war in irak, which still seems better than contestant #1.
Cheers!
As for the internet and it's calming of the people I'm not so sure though, since there are a number of other mechanisms also in society that "appease the masses". If you think of the 70's, you might have thought that TV would have kept people in check. I mean TV can, and very often does, present us with any almost idea that anyone with enough money can think of. If seen enough times on enough occasions many of us start thinking of this idea of theirs as a "fact" (think weapons of mass destruction in irak for just one). Of course the net has this same danger, but it is by-directional, so we all can diffuse. Of course corps can diffuse more than individuals to some extent (adds, laws,...), but it still seems to me that the internet is less of a controlable medium than TV is. As for the venting feature likes blogs or similar being a calming thing, I'm divided. I mean, if you think of that same "preaching to the converted" happening between people vocaly, is there a difference in venting between the mediums?
Personnaly, I think some things work in waves, kinda like an irregular sine wave. Action-reaction ripples traveling around, and sometimes the peaks can build up quite a bit before prumiting back towards the other state. And so many waves, big and small, long and short, all interracting together make for a very complicated system to understand! I feel like a cell trying to understand the body it makes up sometimes!
I must say this post is off topic a bit, sorry! To make things a bit more relevant, let me add that oil has had a huge negative impact on battery tech for the last 100 years or so, and oil is why McCain wants to fight. Apparently Obama does not support the war in irak, which still seems better than contestant #1.
Cheers!
TylerDurden
100 GW
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/nj_20080621_6762.php
Environmental lobbyists argue that McCain has sided with Bush and other conservative Republicans more than he has sided with the environmental community. During his 22 years in the Senate, McCain has voted with the greens on only one-quarter of their top legislative priorities, according to the League of Conservation Voters' congressional scorecards. In 2007, McCain didn't show up for any of the 15 votes that the league considered crucial.
By contrast, Obama has earned an 86 percent rating from the league during his four years in the Senate; he missed only four important environmental votes last year. Little wonder then that Obama has the endorsement of Friends of the Earth and is likely to get the backing of the LCV, Defenders of Wildlife, and the Sierra Club if they decide to endorse a presidential nominee.
Environmental lobbyists argue that McCain has sided with Bush and other conservative Republicans more than he has sided with the environmental community. During his 22 years in the Senate, McCain has voted with the greens on only one-quarter of their top legislative priorities, according to the League of Conservation Voters' congressional scorecards. In 2007, McCain didn't show up for any of the 15 votes that the league considered crucial.
By contrast, Obama has earned an 86 percent rating from the league during his four years in the Senate; he missed only four important environmental votes last year. Little wonder then that Obama has the endorsement of Friends of the Earth and is likely to get the backing of the LCV, Defenders of Wildlife, and the Sierra Club if they decide to endorse a presidential nominee.
flip_normal
100 W
Paul, EMF, go watch Kelly's Heroes (again!);
Oddball: "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves."
The idiots 'running the show' haven't a clue what they are doing and are isolated from masses who generally have no faith in anything they say or do these days. OK Obama has slightly enthused some to take more interest in politics (a good thing) but not because of any inspired plan of his but rather as a reaction to the disaster of the neo-con era. The last thing we should do is give the political elite any more credit than they deserve. The urgent need at the moment is to reiterate the very positive potential humanity possesses and not get side-tracked by the scare mongering tactics of the middle classes/bureaucrats/environmentalists who's narrow outlook only seeks to stifle progress as they search to justify their existence in this uncertain world. Technically there's no reason why everybody shouldn't live in luxury these days. The fact that most don't is the real credibility gap which none of the establishment politicians can bridge. Production has been automated and enhanced to such an extent that a surplus, over and above those resources needed to maintain the labor that creates it, is achievable more than ever before and is only going to increase.
This planet is ours for the taking. All revolutions are revolutions in property relations.
**This thread should be elsewhere, it has nothing directly to do with battery technology.**
Oddball: "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves."
The idiots 'running the show' haven't a clue what they are doing and are isolated from masses who generally have no faith in anything they say or do these days. OK Obama has slightly enthused some to take more interest in politics (a good thing) but not because of any inspired plan of his but rather as a reaction to the disaster of the neo-con era. The last thing we should do is give the political elite any more credit than they deserve. The urgent need at the moment is to reiterate the very positive potential humanity possesses and not get side-tracked by the scare mongering tactics of the middle classes/bureaucrats/environmentalists who's narrow outlook only seeks to stifle progress as they search to justify their existence in this uncertain world. Technically there's no reason why everybody shouldn't live in luxury these days. The fact that most don't is the real credibility gap which none of the establishment politicians can bridge. Production has been automated and enhanced to such an extent that a surplus, over and above those resources needed to maintain the labor that creates it, is achievable more than ever before and is only going to increase.
This planet is ours for the taking. All revolutions are revolutions in property relations.
**This thread should be elsewhere, it has nothing directly to do with battery technology.**
TylerDurden
100 GW
Heller's Catch-22 might be a better pick...
The planet is ours for the sharing, IMO.
(I trust that's what you meant.)
The planet is ours for the sharing, IMO.
(I trust that's what you meant.)
flip_normal
100 W
TylerDurden said:
That's the idea, but I don't see the powers that be handing it over just like that. Nice if they did tho'.
