Joystick capable forward/reverse controller for BLDC?

[Chalo]

Hi y'all,

I have an upcoming project that features tank-style steering— which is to say, separate right and left side controls that can throttle from full speed ahead to full speed reverse without modal switching between forward and reverse. The plan is to have a three or four wheel vehicle with two direct drive hub motor wheels (right and left) that provide both propulsion and steering, with the remaining one or two wheels being unpowered, unsteered casters.

I've been combing through the information junk pile here and elsewhere online, trying to find resources to accomplish this. The closest I've found is controllers that do this with two-wire brushed DC motors. That's not what I want to use, though.

Is anybody here aware of a brushless controller/throttle solution that can transition seamlessly between forward and reverse operation? I don't mind at all having entirely separate right and left drives, but it won't work if the controllers must be switched between forward-driving and reverse-driving modes.

 

[A-DamW]

Every VESC I have seen/used can do seamless forward/reverse on the same adc throttle input, you just configure it so "neutral" is the mid-point on your hall/potentiometer throttle.

You can tune the direction change transition in the VESC app(pc, android, ios) to respond however you want.

Do you already have the joystick(s)?

 

[Chalo]

Every VESC I have seen/used can do seamless forward/reverse on the same adc throttle input, you just configure it so "neutral" is the mid-point on your hall/potentiometer throttle.

You can tune the direction change transition in the VESC app(pc, android, ios) to respond however you want.

Do you already have the joystick(s)?

I don't have a joystick yet, and I don't even care whether it's a joystick as long as I can do forward and reverse with one hand, and it defaults to neutral. Two-way twist grip would be fine, though I don't know where to find one of those either.

I guess I'm mentally prepared to program something to do what I'm getting at— but I'll always, always prefer/buy something that doesn't need any programming to work.

 

[chuyskywalker]

edit: I see I think you're asking about dual motor tank tread type joystick control

 

[Voltron]

Maybe look at electric boat drive suppliers?

I've seen a few that use fwd/rev with neutral lock that has to be held up, so prevents accidental engagement.
That specific part maybe was sourced from electric forklift use?

 

[ZeroEm]

Was thinking about it a few years ago, like the zero turn radius lawn mowers (think they are hydraulic, valves). Was thinking there was a thread started or someone talked about in a thread.
It was complex and gave it up. Was thinking a software solution to control it. But if the speed is low it should be doable. May still need a board to do the switching and throttle.

You have lots of options: Independent braking
Direction Forward, Reverse
Throttle speed for each wheel
Regen for each wheel

Sorry doing a brain dump.
Braking would be easy with lots of wear. Think regen takes to much time and with out fine control.
What's left is reduce one throttle down until change of motor direction is warranted then enough throttle to effect needed change.

Most of our ebike controls are slow to respond but it all depends on the speed needed.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't have a joystick yet, and I don't even care whether it's a joystick as long as I can do forward and reverse with one hand, and it defaults to neutral. Two-way twist grip would be fine, though I don't know where to find one of those either. .

I think this one
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wuxing-newest-half-twist-throttle-2_62067628818.html
is a dual-mode throttle, commercially available; it's been posted a couple of times here and there from different people, though I don't have any experience with it. Vectrix scooters used a dual-mode throttle, if you can find one of those (i think it actually even has two sensors, one reversed from the other, so the controller could know if there was a real throttle fault). This thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=116673 purports to have one being designed for sale, but I only found the thread and don't know details about it.

Old style computer game joysticks used two pots for detecting direction, with each pot being centered when the joystick was not being moved. Many had a calibration wheel on each one, too, to allow perfect centering of it. If you have one laying around, or poke around at goodwill/etc, they should still be easy enough to come across. Ebay and the like also probably have them. I used to have a "flightstick pro" built like that, and an even older one by turtle beach, I think. They're a bit bulky, though you can probably remove some of the casing if necessary to slim them down, and probably replace the entire grip handle with something smaller if you don't need any of the button controls (which would have separate wires out to the game port connector).

Newer USB style joysticks are probably built the same way mechanically, but have an MCU inside to translate that to data that goes over a USB port...but I have not opened one up so couldn't say. (the FS Pro had a gameport to USB adapter that presumably did this internally, but I never used that, and never investigated it).



Regarding controllers, there are these systems
https://www.goldenmotor.com/wheelchair.htm
that can probably drive regular hubmotors, but they're made for 24v (one is up to 50A, but that's still not much). It only uses a single joystick to control both motors, however. (and you'd probably have to buy their programmer device too, if you needed to set up anything different from the way it comes).

 

[chuyskywalker]

I don't have a joystick yet, and I don't even care whether it's a joystick as long as I can do forward and reverse with one hand, and it defaults to neutral. Two-way twist grip would be fine, though I don't know where to find one of those either. .

I think this one
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wuxing-newest-half-twist-throttle-2_62067628818.html
is a dual-mode throttle, commercially available; it's been posted a couple of times here and there from different people, though I don't have any experience with it.

That's the one I have several of:

[youtube]He3nGVQTHw0[/youtube]

They aren't "dual mode" so much as one hall with a mechanical reset-to-center behavior instead of the typical reset-to-zero.

The Spiny is also excellent if you're more into a thumb throttle.

 

[ZeroEm]

Here is something of interest.
Joystick Based Dual DC Motor Controller Using OP-AMP

With all the drones and remote control there should be off the shelf solutions. Will keep searching.

This is close but looks costly.

30A-50A brushless motor controller and joystick for electric motors, electric wheelchairs. We also have EMB braking function brushless controllers.

 

[BalorNG]

Hi y'all,

I have an upcoming project that features tank-style steering— which is to say, separate right and left side controls that can throttle from full speed ahead to full speed reverse without modal switching between forward and reverse. The plan is to have a three or four wheel vehicle with two direct drive hub motor wheels (right and left) that provide both propulsion and steering, with the remaining one or two wheels being unpowered, unsteered casters.

I've been combing through the information junk pile here and elsewhere online, trying to find resources to accomplish this. The closest I've found is controllers that do this with two-wire brushed DC motors. That's not what I want to use, though.

Is anybody here aware of a brushless controller/throttle solution that can transition seamlessly between forward and reverse operation? I don't mind at all having entirely separate right and left drives, but it won't work if the controllers must be switched between forward-driving and reverse-driving modes.

Great, please do it so I don't have to Just share you experiences please.
I presume you want torque vectoring ONLY? It would be very intesting to see how viable this setup is... however, you might have to add some damping to rear caster to prevent it from shimming in some conditions.

An even MORE interesting idea is AWS tadpole trike with front torque vectoring and actual 'manual' rear steering, but having to both steer rear wheel AND manage front torque vectoring will be tough (though there are ways), but will allow you to do very neat tricks like 'crabwise slinking'.

Otoh, you really rear wheel to be 'fully castering' at slow speed. Maybe some sort of 'caster lock' for high speed operation is a good idea?

 

[BalorNG]

Every VESC I have seen/used can do seamless forward/reverse on the same adc throttle input, you just configure it so "neutral" is the mid-point on your hall/potentiometer throttle.

You can tune the direction change transition in the VESC app(pc, android, ios) to respond however you want.

Do you already have the joystick(s)?

I don't have a joystick yet, and I don't even care whether it's a joystick as long as I can do forward and reverse with one hand, and it defaults to neutral. Two-way twist grip would be fine, though I don't know where to find one of those either.

I guess I'm mentally prepared to program something to do what I'm getting at— but I'll always, always prefer/buy something that doesn't need any programming to work.

You do not when it comes to a VESC, so long as you add a peripheral that defaults to 'return to center' and outputs an ADC or a PPM signal, than you can do all the setup in smartphone app very easily (make sure you have bluetooth dongle for the VESC).