Juiced Riders ODK500 (V2) 48v15ah cargobike.

[zydeco]

I have had very little experience with rotor style brakes. I have the avid bb7 on the other bike but those were my first. I am at about 12 or 1300 miles now and I have nod hat to seriously adjust anything on the front brake other than the finger adjustment to tighten the cable and the caliper. I did just have to replace the rear brake pads though.

 

[Chalo]

I just hit 57 AH and 127 miles... I have enjoyed every moment except the brakes

The front disc brake lever does not have enough throw.

Don't get me wrong they work fine, just not as linear as I have been used to on hydraulic disc brakes and matched levers.

They are tektro levers with promax brakes.

The levers are designed for cantilever / hub brakes.

I heard I could just get some Avid BB7 and those have a short enough throw that they might work better..

Promax disc brakes are just terrible-- really bad by the standards of any kind of brake.

Avid BB7 disc come in a "road" version that's designed for short pull levers. While I have not tried the short pull model myself, my experience with other Avid BB7 brakes and their predecessors has been very good.

 

[teklektik]

The levers are designed for cantilever / hub brakes.

I heard I could just get some Avid BB7 and those have a short enough throw that they might work better..

Any input from you guys or other owners?

I swapped out my vbrakes for MTN BB7s and retained the Promax levers - work very nice with good throw and control. I also have run the BB7s with the eZee ebrake lever from ebikes.ca with equally good results (pn:EbrakeEzee - a nice 3-finger lever by Tektro).

 

[ShoGinn]

Interesting.. Juiced Riders said the same thing.

So now I need to decide, road or mtn...

not sure which one to use.

 

[teklektik]

The front disc brake lever does not have enough throw.

So now I need to decide, road or mtn...

The MTN brakes are long-throw - you have MTN levers so you should buy MTN to match.

I believe you will also find that the BB7s offer more linear modulation so you will have finer control even if the throw turns out to be shorter than you might have had with other braking systems.

 

[jbrunson]

Version 3?

http://www.juicedriders.com/

assuming this is a tease for the upcoming show.... details then?

 

[zydeco]

The version 3 makes me want to cry. I need that battery. I already emailed juicedriders and got a quote of $899 for the new battery. It will be available this summer. I intend to buy that battery. I need the extra range. I wander what I will do with the old battery. It still has most of its life left in it.

 

[Chalo]

I intend to buy that battery. I need the extra range. I wander what I will do with the old battery.

Wire it in parallel with the new one?

 

[zydeco]

I have seriously considered that... Right now when I want to go really far I use my other bike with two packs. This leaves no room to carry anything. When I bought the ODKv2 the large battery was the biggest factor in my decision. If I were lighter the bike would be just right but my weight stops me 3 miles short of the range I really want. The two things I really would like to improve are the brakes and the battery size. Both of these were improved on the V3. I do not think I will be able to use the brakes from the v3 but I am sure I will be able to use the battery.

 

[cal3thousand]

I have seriously considered that... Right now when I want to go really far I use my other bike with two packs. This leaves no room to carry anything. When I bought the ODKv2 the large battery was the biggest factor in my decision. If I were lighter the bike would be just right but my weight stops me 3 miles short of the range I really want. The two things I really would like to improve are the brakes and the battery size. Both of these were improved on the V3. I do not think I will be able to use the brakes from the v3 but I am sure I will be able to use the battery.

You could always resell the old battery here. Not hugely efficient, but will help recoup part of the cost of the new battery

 

[ehallspqr]

Looking at one of these Juiced Riders for my wife. She likes the low height step thru design and overall compactness. The Version 3 looks like they improved a few thing but they jumped in price almost 50%. That's quite a price increase from version 2. There are left over V2's around and a couple V2's on the used market for slightly less than the list of $2100. The V2 already sounds like an excellent e-cargo bike. Is the V3 worth the extra money?

By the way thanks for starting this thread. We are new to e-bikes and the information put us onto the Juiced Riders. We want a turn-key bike to start out. I have a Yuba Mundo that I will probably be putting a BionX kit on and that has already left me with many questions.

 

[zydeco]

I almost went the emundo route. I am glad I didn't. I can tell you now the ODK will pull circles around a mundo with a bionix kit. The bionix is a nice premium piece of kit but it has some major flaws particularly in this application. The bionix is a direct drive motor and has a proprietary battery and electronics. Their batteries are small and expensive and you have to use theirs. A direct drive hub is great for hotrod applications and I doubt that you intend to hotrod it. A geared hub motor has much more torque at normal power levels. I weigh 280lbs I carry cargo and I have hills. The ODK pulls me right up them. My direct drive hub bike strugles on the hills and cargo makes it worse. My v2 ODK has a 48v15ah battery and was the largest battery going on a commercial bike when I bought it. The new battery on the V3 is 48v22Ah. You can expect a real 50mile range without pedaling. Most (all) manufactures exaggerate the range. The weak point on the V2 is the brakes. It has a mechanical disk up front with relatively small pads. The rear brake is a regular rim type brake and is a pain in the butt to change the pads. Luckily I have a cheap mechanic so this as not been much issue for me. I have over 3k miles on my odk now. I love the cruise control feature. I also love that it is geared in a way that you can actually pedal at 20mph to save battery without having to flap your feet like a madman. You will not find that on the mundo. The mundo is a cargo bike first. The ODK is an ebike first. I really want the v3 but its not in my budget this year. If you were close I would love to sell ya mine so I could afford the v3. I get 29 real world miles from the v2 but I would get alot more on flat ground or if I were lighter. There are some great mundos out there that have been customized to ebike but they had alot invested in them to do it. If you have any questions at all please feel free to ask.

 

[ehallspqr]

Well we found a used V2 Juiced Rider a few hours drive away. It was in like new condition so we went ahead and bought it for the asking price of $1500. It was quite abit cheaper than the few used Juiced Riders I have seen for sale. Motivated seller. So far we love this bike. Your right, it has plenty of power for anything you'd need. In fact it feels more like a scooter than a bicycle. My wife Inga is 5'3", I'm guessing 125lbs and she fly's on this thing. The bike fits both her and I very well and is super comfortable to ride. She has ridden about 20 miles mostly on throttle and the battery indicator is still registering a couple bars. It looks like it would go 25+ miles easy on a charge easy. The Juiced brakes seem plenty adequate when compared to my Mundo with Avid BB7 disc brakes. I guess the V3's have hydraulic disc brakes front and rear. Looking next at installing a Cycle Analyst for a speedo and better battery monitor. I think Juiced Rider sells the CA setup for the J-Riders.

I would say to anyone looking at the new V3 to also consider a V2 and save the $1K difference. While the V3 is definitely an advancement, the V2 is plenty of e-bike for the money. I'm not so sure the V3 is worth the extra coin over the already excellent V2. My 2 cents.

 

[zydeco]

If your wife does not get over 30 miles on that battery then there is somethin wrong. The battery indicator is designed for SLA batteries and is unreliable. I rode mine to full cutoff one time. I use that information along with a plain cycle computer to track mileage and calculate potential range. A CA would be a much better option. I agree that the V2 is more than enough bike for most people. However the brakes do wear down fast when you use it daily at full capacity. I'm glad you guys have found a good bike. I have not tried to sell my V2 yet. I think the price you paid for a used bike was fair to both parties. Since I already spent all my income tax money my V2 will have to get me through another year. I have little doubt that it will continue to perform well.

 

[dogman dan]

Sounds like a real good modification would be to add a stand alone cycleanalyst. Have real information what is going on with the battery, and ride efficiency.

Improving the battery a lot on a bike would increase the price a lot. Battery is where all the money really is. Buy a new battery for your ODK, and parallel it with your old one. Or learn about RC batteries, and carry a tiny little reserve tank battery.

As for the brakes, improving situational awareness is needed too. Locking up good brakes screws you worse than poor brakes. All you ever get is till the bike tire skids. If those brakes are really bad, get them tuned up.

 

[zydeco]

I hardly use the brakes anymore as the rear brakes are so difficult to replace. I will probably never sell this bike though I will get the v3 eventually. I am putting this bike through alot of hard use so selling it would require ALOT of cleanup paint etc... I am getting close to new tire time. I am on the 2nd battery as the pwer switch on the first one started to fail. They sent me a replacement that was not exactly new but was atleast as good as what I had. I would love a CA but I dont feel like I need one.I rarely push it close to cutoff. Most of my trips are 10-11 miles. I definitely intend to buy the 22ah battery when this one dies. At that time I am sure I will get a CA or atleast put a meter inline. The new back comes with a built in DC to DC converter with a USB power output. I will have to get some tunes on the bike at that point.

 

[Alan B]

Nice bike, and the V3 has some good improvements.

 

[Chalo]

I hardly use the brakes anymore as the rear brakes are so difficult to replace.

I don't understand. V-brakes are just about the easiest of all brakes to service or replace pads. Much easier than replacing disc pads and aligning the caliper, for sure. They're also cake to replace in their entirety. What issue are you having?

 

[puregsr]

Just curious if the top speed is limited by the controller. Is there a way to achieve unlimited top speed? Where's the controller located?

 

[Alan B]

Unlimited? This is a front geared hubmotor ebike.

Changing the controller cannot produce unlimited speed, at least with the normal controllers made for ebikes.

The inherent maximum speed is dependent on the motor winding (RPM per Volt characteristic), wheel size, and battery voltage. The controller could reduce the maximum speed further through programming, but generally to increase speed more than a small amount the battery voltage would have to be increased and the controller changed to handle the higher voltage, or the motor changed to a winding with higher RPM per Volt (and the controller would likely need to be changed for the higher current this motor would require).

 

[puregsr]

Unlimited? This is a front geared hubmotor ebike.

Changing the controller cannot produce unlimited speed, at least with the normal controllers made for ebikes.

The inherent maximum speed is dependent on the motor winding (RPM per Volt characteristic), wheel size, and battery voltage. The controller could reduce the maximum speed further through programming, but generally to increase speed more than a small amount the battery voltage would have to be increased and the controller changed to handle the higher voltage, or the motor changed to a winding with higher RPM per Volt (and the controller would likely need to be changed for the higher current this motor would require).

Well, I figure it's gotta do with legality for the 20 mph assisted top speed. Wondering how easy it is to hack the system to allow more speed if it's possible.

 

[Alan B]

The controller may or may not be limiting the speed. Most commercial ebikes are designed to have about the right inherent speed so they don't need to limit in the controller as that is also the most economical system both from the standpoint of cost and efficiency, or if the limit was removed the speed would not be significantly higher as the inherent speed may be higher but not a great deal. I don't know of anyone that has tried to do that with this bike. You could always buy one and change the controller and find out. Given the cost of the battery it would probably be most cost effective to change the controller first, and then the motor and preserve the expensive battery. If you decide to try this I'm sure there will be some interest in your results here on ES, and they can help here with suggestions about controllers and motors to use. You may be able to swap the motor internals and use the same wheel, and avoid re-spoking the wheel etc. BPM makes a number of motors. For example going to a 36V motor instead of the standard 48V motor may do what you want. The small wheel size requires a higher RPM motor to even make 20 mph, so to get to 28 may be difficult. I haven't worked with the BPM motors, but there are ES folks with lots of that experience to provide assistance.

Another possibility is to find out what front motor model is actually on the bike, then the potential top speed can be estimated from motor data. The RPM per volt is what's needed to do this estimate. If we knew what model the front motor was we could find this parameter and do an estimate of top speed. It is stated as a 500 watt BPM, but which wind?